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Payment Dispute with DedicatServer.RO
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Comments
It's not fair to accuse them of stealing on public forum without giving them a chance to respond first. Probably it wasn't intentional and should be and probably would be refunded.
But seller should also know he's receiving money and if everyone knows that some plugin is buggy, then it should be paid more attention. Guess a nice reminder to check on subscriptions.
... even if the provider informs them that the contractual basis for the payment isn't existing anymore?
I wouldn't quarrel about the first month or demand the money back, but it seems reasonable to me to assume that an honest provider would inform Paypal after receiving the first "wrong" payment.
Btw, thanks a lot for looking at it from my perspective too. I appreciate that.
Let me respond with something in a way similar (but the other way around) that also happened very recently. I had purchased and payed in advance (1 yr) a small dedi from an honest and very good provider. Due to some quirk or misunderstanding it turned out that said dedi wasn't available anymore, so I asked them (friendly) to kindly reimburse the 300+ Euros I had paid. Which they did within an hour or so - but they forgot to also subtract that amount from my account credit with them. So I had gotten back my 300+ Euros and still had them in my account balance!
Well, I contacted them again, of course, and told them about it. They responded joyfully and thanked me a lot for being honest.
That's how I see and approach (small personal) business. You don't take or keep what's not yours. I don't want any money I get due to some error or mishap and I expect the same from others. Maybe I'm stupid, but I'm pleased that I can tell you that almost all of the providers on LET I dealt with (quite a few) actually were honest.
@others
OK, I see. Some romanian crook, uhm provider keeps money he didn't earn - but that seems to be OK for many here, and in their eyes I'm in fact the evil and/or stupid guy and guilty because I didn't know details of the inner working of Paypal or WHMCS and because I trusted a provider to stick to a deal and to act honestly.
The only thing I did that might be justifiably called "wrong" was that I opened this thread without giving them some days to react to my ticket. But there is another factor in play: my priority was to not open a Paypal case against them unless they showed themselves to be crooks, because based on what I know getting problems with Paypal really is a very tough problem for a provider. So, on one hand I didn't want to just accept their fraud but on the other hand I did not want to create serious problems for them unless really required.
In other words: It may look like I went berserk against dedicatserver right away and without giving them a chance to settle it amicably - but actually that's not the case.
@dedicatserver_ro
For me all of this boiled down to a simple point: would you act decently and honestly and say "sorry, mistake, we'll refund you" - or not and act like a "smart" crook?
I've got the answer at the latest when you deleted my account, of bloody course in a tricky way by not fully deleting it but by configuring it in a way that doesn't allow me any interaction, no tickets (not even looking at them), no billing, no nothing; so you can "smartly" say "noho, I didn't delete your account!" while de facto deleting it.
I don't care whether you keep my money or refund it, I will follow up on Paypal though (after all, haven't I been told that they are the wrongdoers?).
@jbiloh, @Admins
I'm disappointed that you tolerate providers who repeatedly fu__ed LET users or, at the very least, repeatedly acted in a very questionable way.
And now I'll look for a VPS from @Advin and highly likely buy one. Have a nice day everyone
That is different from a subscription. Authorization does not send money, subscription does it whether the host would like it or not.
I am also disappointed they tolerate slander.
By closing your account (which is different from deleting it) they have let you deal with the problem outside of their system as you insisted on doing by opening this thread.
You can now go to Paypal, cry about the "thieves" and get your money back. They will show your subscription and prove are not thieves. After winning the dispute, they can refund you, minus some fees taken by Paypal and whatever they think this hassle is worth it.
Nothing shady or unexpected. You slander someone, they have the right to defend themselves. By winning the dispute is one of the ways. Another would be for you to apologize, accept you forgot to cancel the subscription, get your money back and move on.
Knowing you are Russian, I know you are incapable of apologizing and you would escalate until you lose everything in the hope that the target of your ire would lose more than you.
Proceeds to open a thread claiming a host is stealing, gets surprised when host decided to cease all contact and make you handle everything with payment processor instead which will take weeks to resolve, a better scenario could have been waiting for billing department to reply to existing ticket and get refunded after a couple of days. Your thread is no different than all the MJJs refund threads let users are making fun of.
In other words: It may look like I went berserk against dedicatserver right away and without giving them a chance to settle it amicably - but actually that's not the case.
This is the most backwards logic out there. If this is true, then dear lord you need help. This is like your girlfriend trying to get her friend to hook up with you to "test your loyalty".
Mate, I know we don't see eye-to-eye but communication is key and regardless of what dedicatserver did (yes their responses have been a bit immature), you look much worse in this case.
If you want to go public, give the full perspective and information and follow through with the process. LET is not a legal system, it's not a financial system, it's a public forum where people stroke dicks and act as if they're tough and professional. People's perspective of you is based on your writing and trying to be sneaky and justify it as "I was just trying to let them show they were scammy!" is such a... playground way of trying to do it.
This thread has just made you and them both look foolish, but more you.
Just gather the losses and move on.
Yet, he is allowed to go on for much longer for some reason.
I am disappointed that LET mods are entertaining pussies, who repeatedly act entitled.
Nuh, I have no problem with them tolerating you
Or, you could avoid subscribing in the first place. I avoid ANYONE who forces a subscription on me. On very rare cases I accepted it along the years but deleted the subscription immediately.
Authorization, that is a different thing. I have authorized 3 companies to take money from my account. If they would take anything without a reason, then yes, that would be theft or a clear mistake on their side, but it is likely they would notice it and refund me before I even notice, because such things can be easily seen from the sudden increase of income at the end of the day which is not the case if the customer makes a mistake.
The new billing agreements are great, dont have to worry about cancelling, i think they are only for large companies, i know steam, cloudflare uses them as i have authorized them for ease of use to buy stuff.
Ofcourse no one has issues tolerating sound folks who don't cry.
Man forgets to check his bills/emails, cries later and defames a host on a public forum without giving atleast a 24h timeframe for host to reply, now acts entitled that he isn't wrong. Host on the other hand seems to be pretty chill and is ready to provide refund. Sounds like OP is interested in defaming and drama rather than his money. Resident Defamer!
It is not on the provider to cancel PayPal subscriptions if you select "Recurring Payments".
In 2008, KfW Bankengruppe paid €300 million to collapsed Lehman Brothers via automated payment.
In 2023, jsg paid $7 to DedicatServer Gardens via automated payment.
In both incidents, the automated payments were initiated by the sender, and it's sender's responsibility to cancel such automated payments if they don't want to pay.
We hereby suggest jsg to apply for a position at KfW Bankengruppe.
Nope. He had plenty opportunity to declare "sorry, innocent mistake, will refund" but chose not to do that.
I didn't, at least not knowingly. In fact iirc I payed a year in advance, so no need for recurring payments.
Nope. You had plenty of opportunity to resolve it privately rather than defaming without a reasonable time frame. Don't cover up buddy.
Wait... now that's just strange perspective, considering you're the one made a mistake here (and you keep ignoring that).
Based on what I've gathered, there was no fraud, and clearly there was no stealing.
This is just a case of automatic payments being sent to a provider via an active PayPal Subscription for a service once existed which has been canceled by the customer.
Nothing out of the ordinary as this does happen to customers at some point in their lives when making payments with PayPal.
I'm sure this case can be settled as professionally as possible, between both parties, so please do so.
I've updated the subject of this thread to reflect the actual situation.
Cheers ✌️
Now it's my turn.
Penis.
@jsg
I understand your POV, I generally also expect a provider to refund in the event of an accidental automatic payment, that's what I do. However, I understand why some providers don't in some cases. I would be a bit more careful when signing up for a service from now on, make sure to check if you're signing up to a subscription payment or a billing agreement. Most providers have a legacy or one time option for PayPal, which I almost always use for providers I don't fully trust.
The issue here is that not every provider keeps track of all of their clients and payments. Sure, if the provider has a personal relationship with you or is a lot smaller (maybe only a handful of clients), they might be able to check the payments for accidental one's, but that usually doesn't happen. I mean, you failed to realize that you were sending accidental payments to this provider for months, despite PayPal emailing you whenever a payment gets sent. A lot of providers here have at least a few hundred clients and receive hundreds of payments on a month-to-month basis. They're obviously not going to go through each one, look up the client, and make sure that the payment was accidental or not.
I think you're failing to realize that you are not the only client that a hosting provider has, hosting providers often have hundreds of payments and have hundreds of clients, even most low-end one's. They cannot spend hours every day policing every single payment, making sure it wasn't accidental, keeping track of every client's invoices, etc (that would be an impossible task). We receive thousands of payments on a monthly basis, and it's impossible for me to check each & every one to make sure that they were not accidental. I've had instances where WHMCS didn't cancel the subscription payments myself, which is why I am defending @dedicatserver_ro a bit here.
Based on what?
"updated", uhum. Quick note to you and plot twist: Looking at my Paypal history it seems I had paid the VPS one year in advance and not only was there no need for any "subscription" but once the original and true contract had ended dedicatserver decided themselves for me that the VPS should continue and hence be paid via Paypal, of course while not actually providing the service to me.
Funny that I had and have plenty of one year in advance paid VPS (payed via Paypal) and never did a provider just ignore when the year had passed and "prolonged" the contract under changed (monthly) terms - until dedicatserver.
But yeah, sure, they are innocent and right because ... uhm ... they didn't burn down my house.
I'm trying to stay impartial here and look at the facts.
What Paypal calls a subscription is actually a scheduled payment. Paypal will send money to the provider on a regular basis. This is different from the provider actually withdrawing money from the users account. A subscription happens whether the provider requests it or not. I am not familiar enough with these kind of transactions to say whether or not a provider can request a subscription to end or if the user has to do it manually, but from what have been said in the thread this seems to be a common problem.
While maybe not expressing themselves in the most professional manner, @dedicatserver_ro has as I see it never denied a refund. They even promised to return the money regardless of the outcome of a Paypal dispute.
It is not clear for how long this subscription have been active. One could argue that @dedicatserver_ro should have noticed these monthly payments and taken action. Again, I am not familiar enough with the systems involved to judge whether or not this is feasible, but I would think that a provider should notice payments coming in without an associated service being delivered.
I don't think you can put all blame on a single party here, but as so often is the case, this could probably have been resolved if people just communicated as adults. Had @jsg not come out guns blazing and screaming fraud and stealing before even giving @dedicatserver_ro a chance to respond, this thread would probably not even exist. Had @dedicatserver_ro immediately refunded the money, the thread could have been removed or at least edited.
Being an asshole benefits no one, not even the asshole.
@jsg
Do you give me permission to show here your account from our platform and the paypal statements linked to your account? ( anyway it's a fake account, with fake email )
Thanks! @DP
How much $$$ was it that even got moved out?
Wait, what?
But that's probably something that was changed recently or when the service was canceled.
No. You won't get my permission for anything.
Wrong. But then I expected nothing else from you.
Come on buddy, don't be partybreaker now. We need that. This forum needs that!
I have to take a piss.
That's how it was from the beginning and this is one one of the reasons why the client did not receive any information, about payments...services... or answer to tikets
The email in our platform don´t exist !!!!