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European energy crisis, EUR:USD Exchange rate etc. wreaking havoc on European providers
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European energy crisis, EUR:USD Exchange rate etc. wreaking havoc on European providers

PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

That's gotta hurt for almost all providers in Europe for sure. Those not yet being affected will certainly be affected soon.

For us that means +~15% on hardware expenses, and already +~89% on electricity -- and we fully expect another increase if not this month then very soon, at worst could still quadruple / +400% ! Meanwhile, in Finland they are increasing taxes a lot by various means, especially affecting small businesses.

How has this affected you guys yet?
As an provider, or end user? Seen a lot of price increases yet? At least OVH and Hetzner has already announced such

We are considering increasing our pricing structure for both new and old, likely also all new sub-10€ offers might be gone soon, which was already very hard to do before this for seedboxes. BUT we have not yet made any decisions what-so-ever other than pursuing higher efficiency (server upgrades and such for lower power consumption) and that prepayment periods will be left untouched (ie. prices locked for the already paid period) of course.

It's quite the storm for providers ahead i would believe, Hetzner already did increase by 0.10€/kWh (+~83%) to 0.22€/kWh in Finland as an example. Probably % wise even more in Germany which is having even worse issues than Finland is having.

Btw, Finnish Govt electricity company Fortum owns Uniper and it looks like Finnish tax payers are going to be paying a lot of the German energy cost increases. :(

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Comments

  • HostSlickHostSlick Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 1

    Hetzner Finnland still cheap as fuck :smile:
    Paying currently in NL datacenters 0,29€/kwh. But expecting 0,64€+/kwh soon. At least that's what I used to calculated the Business Plan. Don't know yet. Hope it wont be that much.

    We will for now go without price increase on existing and Balance it out with new Investments (New dedis). Which will bring in more cash.
    The stupidity of the incompetent German Gov will cost us anyway.
    Doing alot of Business with Dedicated Servers.

    Thanked by 1TheGreatOakley
  • The ultimate judge here - customer. Services as seedbox is considered to be luxurious. It can be ditched anytime without regret and exchanged into self-managed seedbox which is a lot cheaper.

    Good luck to your business, but from customer side I give 0 f's to your problems.

  • joerijoeri Member, Host Rep, LIR
    edited September 1

    @HostSlick said:
    Hetzner Finnland still cheap as fuck :smile:
    Paying currently in NL datacenters 0,29€/kwh. But expecting 0,64€+/kwh soon. At least that's what I used to calculated the Business Plan. Don't know yet. Hope it wont be that much.

    We will for now go without price increase on existing and Balance it out with new Investments (New dedis). Which will bring in more cash.
    The stupidity of the incompetent German Gov will cost us anyway.
    Doing alot of Business with Dedicated Servers.

    From what I heard and read is that the kWh price will be €1 or more before the end of this year.

    One year ago we paid around €39 per ampere. Now it's around €158 per ampere.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-29/europe-s-benchmark-power-price-breaks-1-000-euros-for-first-time

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @joeri said: rom what I heard and read is that the kWh price will be €1 or more before the end of this year.

    We have hit that 1€/kWh metric multiple times in Finland over the past month or two, just few hours at a time, but there was a day which was like 0.80€ average. Current 28 day average is ~0.28€/kWh

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited September 1

    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    Thanked by 2hostdare seenu
  • HostSlickHostSlick Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 1

    @joeri said:

    @HostSlick said:
    Hetzner Finnland still cheap as fuck :smile:
    Paying currently in NL datacenters 0,29€/kwh. But expecting 0,64€+/kwh soon. At least that's what I used to calculated the Business Plan. Don't know yet. Hope it wont be that much.

    We will for now go without price increase on existing and Balance it out with new Investments (New dedis). Which will bring in more cash.
    The stupidity of the incompetent German Gov will cost us anyway.
    Doing alot of Business with Dedicated Servers.

    From what I heard and read is that the kWh price will be €1 or more before the end of this year.

    One year ago we paid around €39 per ampere. Now it's around €158 per ampere.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-29/europe-s-benchmark-power-price-breaks-1-000-euros-for-first-time

    I seen it yes.
    Fucking merit order prinicple

    I keep checking this tool every day now. Using the App lol.
    https://euenergy.live/

    It's worrying.

  • @PulsedMedia said:

    Btw, Finnish Govt electricity company Fortum owns Uniper and it looks like Finnish tax payers are going to be paying a lot of the German energy cost increases. :(

    Haha, the next provider from the north (terrahost was the other one) who states bad european neighbours for their energy price increase. After that statement I cancelled my contract with terrahost. Well, energy wise maybe Mr.Farmer should be paused? I really like the seedbox offers by you (and have 3 in my account) but the bashing against other european countries is like a little bit... 'nasty'

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @_cece said:

    @PulsedMedia said:

    Btw, Finnish Govt electricity company Fortum owns Uniper and it looks like Finnish tax payers are going to be paying a lot of the German energy cost increases. :(

    Haha, the next provider from the north (terrahost was the other one) who states bad european neighbours for their energy price increase. After that statement I cancelled my contract with terrahost. Well, energy wise maybe Mr.Farmer should be paused? I really like the seedbox offers by you (and have 3 in my account) but the bashing against other european countries is like a little bit... 'nasty'

    That was not bashing other European countries in any manner, shape or form.

    Just statement of fact: Fortum owns Uniper. Fortum was formed, and is mostly owned by Finnish government. Finnish government is right now in session which will likely decide what level of more financing to give to Fortum. Finnish govt already gave 8 000 000 000€ to Uniper to cover Uniper's losses in Germany (or something along that line). Uniper's primary market is in Germany, but has operations in many other countries as well, including Russia.

  • Customers from a NL datacenter received a mail with €0,985/kWH for Q4 2022 :open_mouth:

  • @kazawiki said:
    Customers from a NL datacenter received a mail with €0,985/kWH for Q4 2022 :open_mouth:

    Complete madness. How many kW/h's he burned?

  • @joeri said:

    @HostSlick said:
    Hetzner Finnland still cheap as fuck :smile:
    Paying currently in NL datacenters 0,29€/kwh. But expecting 0,64€+/kwh soon. At least that's what I used to calculated the Business Plan. Don't know yet. Hope it wont be that much.

    We will for now go without price increase on existing and Balance it out with new Investments (New dedis). Which will bring in more cash.
    The stupidity of the incompetent German Gov will cost us anyway.
    Doing alot of Business with Dedicated Servers.

    From what I heard and read is that the kWh price will be €1 or more before the end of this year.

    One year ago we paid around €39 per ampere. Now it's around €158 per ampere.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-29/europe-s-benchmark-power-price-breaks-1-000-euros-for-first-time

    Lol. Plebs. Get on our level. €4000/MWh

  • HostSlickHostSlick Member, Patron Provider

    @LTniger said:

    @kazawiki said:
    Customers from a NL datacenter received a mail with €0,985/kWH for Q4 2022 :open_mouth:

    Complete madness. How many kW/h's he burned?

    More interesting would be which DC? lol

  • coldcold Member

    @HostSlick said:
    Hetzner Finnland still cheap as fuck :smile:
    Paying currently in NL datacenters 0,29€/kwh. But expecting 0,64€+/kwh soon. At least that's what I used to calculated the Business Plan. Don't know yet. Hope it wont be that much.

    We will for now go without price increase on existing and Balance it out with new Investments (New dedis). Which will bring in more cash.
    The stupidity of the incompetent German Gov will cost us anyway.
    Doing alot of Business with Dedicated Servers.

    and once again Germany dedices the faith of Europe =)) what did we learned from the PAST ?

  • kazawikikazawiki Member
    edited September 1

    @LTniger said:

    @kazawiki said:
    Customers from a NL datacenter received a mail with €0,985/kWH for Q4 2022 :open_mouth:

    Complete madness. How many kW/h's he burned?

    2000W average uage/rack. Going from €235/m to €1460/m/rack. DC is unknown

    Thanked by 1Daniel15
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    damn! was fearing that's possible, but already?

    @serv_ee yikes, heard about that. Let us know if you are looking to colocate in Finland, we can help you with that. Check out Helsinki DC for example.

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    Please don't cancel my €18/year. 👌

  • They have bigger problems in Europe, they are going to be eating bugs and freezing very soon.

    Thanked by 1SLMob
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @redcat said:
    They have bigger problems in Europe, they are going to be eating bugs and freezing very soon.

    They are already putting bugs in unexpected places hiding behind odd names and E-codes. Bug blood has been the traditional red food coloring as well for decades. Someone noticed there is bugs even in some orange juice oO;

    Finnish big volume corporation price predictions:
    https://www.fortum.fi/yrityksille-ja-yhteisoille/sahkosopimus/yritysaktiivi/hintaennuste

    Looking at their history chart:
    06/2022 10,98 c/kWh
    05/2022 9,46 c/kWh
    04/2022 8,35 c/​kWh
    03/2022 8,11 c/​kWh
    02/2022 8,00 c/​kWh
    01/2022 8,07 c/​kWh
    .
    .
    .
    03/2021 4,50 c/​kWh
    02/2021 4,95 c/​kWh
    01/2021 4,66 c/​kWh
    12/2020 4,63 c/​kWh

    That is before transmission/grid fees and energy tax of ~2,8 c/kWh. Grid fees range from ~3 to 6c/kWh.

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @yoursunny said:
    Please don't cancel my €18/year. 👌

    No plan will be cancelled. Renewal prices are completely another question however.

  • @PulsedMedia said:
    damn! was fearing that's possible, but already?

    @serv_ee yikes, heard about that. Let us know if you are looking to colocate in Finland, we can help you with that. Check out Helsinki DC for example.

    I still have my multi year fixed plan so I'm not worried. They are trying to so hard to force me over but nah. I'm not giving up my 8 cents.

    Thanked by 1PulsedMedia
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @serv_ee said:

    @PulsedMedia said:
    damn! was fearing that's possible, but already?

    @serv_ee yikes, heard about that. Let us know if you are looking to colocate in Finland, we can help you with that. Check out Helsinki DC for example.

    I still have my multi year fixed plan so I'm not worried. They are trying to so hard to force me over but nah. I'm not giving up my 8 cents.

    Nice! Be careful tho, here supposedly fixed rate plans have turned out not to be so fixed.

    One energy company went bankrupt for example, another one sold 24month fixed rate 2 months ago ... and since then 4 rate increases after that. Turns out many have terms where the fixed rate is only on the consumer, not the provider.

  • this only means cheap European exports!

  • @PulsedMedia said:

    @serv_ee said:

    @PulsedMedia said:
    damn! was fearing that's possible, but already?

    @serv_ee yikes, heard about that. Let us know if you are looking to colocate in Finland, we can help you with that. Check out Helsinki DC for example.

    I still have my multi year fixed plan so I'm not worried. They are trying to so hard to force me over but nah. I'm not giving up my 8 cents.

    Nice! Be careful tho, here supposedly fixed rate plans have turned out not to be so fixed.

    One energy company went bankrupt for example, another one sold 24month fixed rate 2 months ago ... and since then 4 rate increases after that. Turns out many have terms where the fixed rate is only on the consumer, not the provider.

    Yeah some are doing the same here. But then again some are offering 7 YEAR deals at 16 cents which is more idiotic.

  • So where should I look for colo now in EU?

  • @Harmony said:
    So where should I look for colo now in EU?

    North of Norway. There is electricity price like 0,10€/kWh. But i highly doubt that there is data center...

  • HostSlickHostSlick Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 1

    @Harmony said:
    So where should I look for colo now in EU?

    You could check Iceland.
    I was recently also checking for a few racks.
    0,06€€/kwh

    But very very very expensive bandwidth

  • AlexBarakovAlexBarakov Member, Patron Provider

    @Harmony said:
    So where should I look for colo now in EU?

    You should look to avoid EU. At this point, most places in the world will be cheaper. If EU is a must - northern countries that are naturally cooler should offer a tad bit cheaper prices.

    Thanked by 1hostdare
  • SGrafSGraf Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 1

    @PulsedMedia said:
    That's gotta hurt for almost all providers in Europe for sure. Those not yet being affected will certainly be affected soon.

    For us that means +~15% on hardware expenses, and already +~89% on electricity -- and we fully expect another increase if not this month then very soon, at worst could still quadruple / +400% ! Meanwhile, in Finland they are increasing taxes a lot by various means, especially affecting small businesses.

    How has this affected you guys yet?

    Seen some slight price increases for various things(servers/other gear/electricity), but nothing that worries me too much at the moment.

    Regarding the MyRootPW services,...when working out product pricing, i do try to factor in some budget for "unforeseen" costs in order to provide a sustainable service.

    That being said, if the current energy trend continues then i do predict that almost anyone providing services in .eu (including me) will have to re-evaluate and potentially adjust pricing before the end of next year.

  • VPSSLIMVPSSLIM Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 1

    Free market is great, but this is the down side of speculation on the energy market. That's all it is right now. Demand will go down (factories will close down (and have) because it's too expensive to produce) hence the price will eventually go down again. They basically stopped the whole supply chain with covid, the demand stayed, then they all of a sudden opened up everything (mind you: there was already inflation in pricing on energy well before RU-UE) which caused high inflated prices on almost anything. (Food has a 1:1 correlation with energy pricing). RU doubling down on lowering gas export to EU has a spiral effect for sure. EU politics is world champion on self-harm :-)

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