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European energy crisis, EUR:USD Exchange rate etc. wreaking havoc on European providers - Page 3
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European energy crisis, EUR:USD Exchange rate etc. wreaking havoc on European providers

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Comments

  • jiggawattjiggawatt Member
    edited September 2022

    Europe is very poor in terms of natural resources, historically depending on imports from the Ottoman Empire, then the American/African colonies, then Russia/Soviet Union, etc.

    They couldn't abandon Russian oil/gas because it was cheapest, and paying more for inputs puts European industry at a competitive disadvantage. A few years ago, it made very little economic sense to diversify away from RU. Nobody really thought a protracted war like this would actually happen.

    A few countries such as Poland and Lithuania built LNG-capable terminals already, and LNG imports will probably skyrocket in the next 1-2 years. But it will take some time.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @TimboJones said:
    It's hilarious that assholes don't know they're assholes.

    Self-awareness is not easy to achieve - but you succeeded. Congrats!

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin Member
    edited September 2022

    Decommissioning nuclear power plants in Germany over the previous decades was a move to please the "green" voters/masses.

    As far as I know and can tell, it was not the wisest move - we still aren't able to produce enough electricity, reliably enough, using "greener" sources (and nuclear isn't nearly as "bad" as it is painted to be - if done properly and safely as Germans used to do it).

    Things will most probably get a lot worse during the winter and the following year(s). Especially for the working class. Corporations will probably benefit. If I were paranoid, I'd even say it was meant to be like that from the start - lockdowns, war(s), more lockdowns probably in the winter...

    I'd be pleasantly surprised if all the prices, of all the goods and services, don't get (at least) doubled from what they were at the start of 2020. Well, except the wages. The price of labour will probably not increase by nearly as much.

    Thanked by 3bulbasaur vedran SLMob
  • @AlexBarakov said:
    Hetzner nearly doubled colocation prices for electricity which should be an indication of what's going to happen to other services as well. Their biggest expense on the dedicated servers is energy consumption (and the cooling associated with that), I have a good hunch that the prices of all servers will be increasing every couple of months now, as they do not want to introduce a huge increase at once. Seems like what some providers are doing in the EU.

    if so, we buy from .US providers fuck the.EU communists who aren't able to support their own ppl and we give away money to other countries so they can do war

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited September 2022

    Posting the extract from a conversation with some folks at a conference on Datacenters earlier this week. On the topic of rising energy prices, the suggestion was. take it for what it is. The person(s) in question are a mix of DC operators and energy traders.

    Watch the energy prices, plan on a quarter to quarter basis till Q4 2023. Possibly till Q1 2024.
    Assume 12-15% increase per quarter.
    Joker in the pack would be EUR:USD exchange rate. Run your numbers at 0.85 (worst case, 1 Euro = 0.85 US Dollars), to 1 (present case) to 1.1 (desirable case).
    Good part (ironically) winter should reduce cooling costs for @ 3 out of next 6 Quarters. Though in Central Europe/ Nordic countries cooling is not a significant part of the DC Opex costs.

  • jiggawattjiggawatt Member
    edited September 2022

    @bikegremlin said: Decommissioning nuclear power plants in Germany over the previous decades was a move to please the "green" voters/masses.

    As far as I know and can tell, it was not the wisest move - we still aren't able to produce enough electricity, reliably enough, using "greener" sources (and nuclear isn't nearly as "bad" as it is painted to be - if done properly and safely as Germans used to do it).

    Angela Merkel supported nuclear power, then Fukushima happened. I agreed with her, but I respect a democratic political process.

    Besides, Poland is sitting on the largest shale reserves in Europe (wasn't economically viable at last decade's energy prices) and they are brining their own nuclear power plants online in the coming years. And LNG is a viable product, just needs more terminals (infrastructure) and that could happen in 1-2 years. Europe will be fine.

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @bikegremlin said: If I were paranoid, I'd even say it was meant to be like that from the start - lockdowns, war(s), more lockdowns probably in the winter...

    "The Great Reset"

    "Agenda 2030"

    .... just saying

    Thanked by 1raidz
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    Thanked by 2that_guy raidz
  • chihcherngchihcherng Veteran
    edited September 2022

    An estimated 70,000 people protested in Prague against the Czech government, calling on the ruling coalition to do more to control soaring energy prices and voicing opposition to the European Union and NATO.

    It's weird that the YouTube channels of BBC, CNN, and DW News seem to have no video about this protest.

  • hostdarehostdare Member, Patron Provider

    @chihcherng said: YouTube channels of BBC, CNN, and DW News seem to have no video about this protest

    They are busy showing how other party is losing the war due to sanctions

    Thanked by 1that_guy
  • @vyas11 said:
    Edited. sent a PM to @Abd on the price movement issue.

    In the light of rising energy costs, I am happy to have opted for some lifetime storage deals such as pCloud, Koofr and Internxt. While clients on monthly/yearly subs will probably soon be billed more, lifetime deal gives peace of mind. That is, as long as the company stays afloat. Wondering how this will affect all those VPN services offering lifetime deals out there, too. They gotta have lots of server bills to pay, albeit many are ofc resellers.

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    turn on the audio: https://imgur.com/a/nIHgdA1

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Worlds-Second-Largest-Steelmaker-Closes-European-Plant.html

    World’s Second-Largest Steelmaker, ArcelorMittal, Closes European Plant

    The world’s second-largest steelmaker, ArcelorMittal, is the latest industrial company to announce a plant closure in Europe due to soaring gas and energy prices.

    ArcelorMittal will shut one of its two blast furnaces at its steelworks site in Bremen, Germany, from the end of September until further notice, due to the “exorbitant rise in energy prices,” the company said in a statement on Friday.

    The high energy prices are undermining the competitiveness of steel production and the company is taking this step in Germany because it cannot operate all plants economically, ArcelorMittal said.

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited September 2022

    @Ympker said:

    @vyas11 said:
    Edited. sent a PM to @Abd on the price movement issue.

    In the light of rising energy costs, I am happy to have opted for some lifetime storage deals such as pCloud, Koofr and Internxt. While clients on monthly/yearly subs will probably soon be billed more, lifetime deal gives peace of mind. That is, as long as the company stays afloat. Wondering how this will affect all those VPN services offering lifetime deals out there, too. They gotta have lots of server bills to pay, albeit many are ofc resellers.

    I would be extra cautious on the "Lifetime storage deals" right now - would be prudent to get a cheap frugal storage server for the next year or so and keep backing up data. (1 TB plan from @interservermike if still available is my current preference)

    In case the upstreams of the cloud storage providers increase prices, the wafer thin margins on the "Lifetime" deals would vapourise.

    During normal times, this is a tough business. Dattodrive, Thuderdrive, Publist, and a couple of other providers I had plans (paid, long term) with went south back in the day. Coming times might exacerbate the situation.


    @PulsedMedia said:
    https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Worlds-Second-Largest-Steelmaker-Closes-European-Plant.html

    World’s Second-Largest Steelmaker, ArcelorMittal, Closes European Plant

    The world’s second-largest steelmaker, ArcelorMittal, is the latest industrial company to announce a plant closure in Europe due to soaring gas and energy prices.

    ArcelorMittal will shut one of its two blast furnaces at its steelworks site in Bremen, Germany, from the end of September until further notice, due to the “exorbitant rise in energy prices,” the company said in a statement on Friday.

    The high energy prices are undermining the competitiveness of steel production and the company is taking this step in Germany because it cannot operate all plants economically, ArcelorMittal said.

    Isn't the title "Closing the plant" confusing or misleading?
    The article says

    shut one of its two blast furnaces

    Cold Steel... very engaging and interesting book on Mittal's acquisition of Arcelor.

    Thanked by 1Ympker
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @vyas11 said: Coming times might exacerbate the situation.

    Guaranteed to do that. Lifetime deals work a bit like ponzi -> new customers need to pay for the old ones, and you need to get enough new ones in to upgrade the hardware to lower the cost of the original ones.

    Thanked by 1vyas11
  • @vyas11 said:
    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

  • @bikegremlin said:
    Decommissioning nuclear power plants in Germany over the previous decades was a move to please the "green" voters/masses.

    As far as I know and can tell, it was not the wisest move - we still aren't able to produce enough electricity, reliably enough, using "greener" sources (and nuclear isn't nearly as "bad" as it is painted to be - if done properly and safely as Germans used to do it).

    Things will most probably get a lot worse during the winter and the following year(s). Especially for the working class. Corporations will probably benefit. If I were paranoid, I'd even say it was meant to be like that from the start - lockdowns, war(s), more lockdowns probably in the winter...

    I'd be pleasantly surprised if all the prices, of all the goods and services, don't get (at least) doubled from what they were at the start of 2020. Well, except the wages. The price of labour will probably not increase by nearly as much.

    As a swede, I could not agree more with everything you say.
    The left and green parties have managed to shut down our nuclear almost completely, which is now resulting in insane electricity prices. People are actually selling their homes because they can not afford the electricity bill.
    Businesses and industries are closing down or moving, people are losing their jobs and the cost of electricity continues to climb. It's a vicious circle, and I'm afraid we have not seen the worst of it yet. Keep in mind we are talking about Sweden here. It is still summer, and we are not exactly known for our warm winters.

    The "wokeness" of the green has actually resulted in Sweden starting up oil-powered powerplants again, something we managed to abandon decades ago. So much for green thinking.

    Thanked by 2bikegremlin raidz
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    Production is being limited all around as well, which will cause those products to become costlier, causing even more inflation for new products and services ...

    @rcy026 said: The "wokeness" of the green has actually resulted in Sweden starting up oil-powered powerplants again, something we managed to abandon decades ago. So much for green thinking.

    Actually green agenda is progressing exactly as desired; The green movement was originally formed to disrupt western countries, so they have succeeded brilliantly. Woke mind virus is part of that. Lefties (aka commies) just want more power at any cost, and sees acquiring power as a zero sum game.

  • @machinetto said: India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

    Electricity in India is expensive though it might be cheap for households because it is cross-subsidized, but for industrial users it is very expensive.

  • @PulsedMedia said:
    Production is being limited all around as well, which will cause those products to become costlier, causing even more inflation for new products and services ...

    @rcy026 said: The "wokeness" of the green has actually resulted in Sweden starting up oil-powered powerplants again, something we managed to abandon decades ago. So much for green thinking.

    Actually green agenda is progressing exactly as desired; The green movement was originally formed to disrupt western countries, so they have succeeded brilliantly. Woke mind virus is part of that. Lefties (aka commies) just want more power at any cost, and sees acquiring power as a zero sum game.

    Well, I do not agree with any of your conclusions, I think they are just stupid and narrowminded. Most fanatics are, doesn't matter if they are on the left or on the right.

    Thanked by 3jackb Peppery9 equalz
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    This is surreal, can't be for real right ... Riiight?

  • @PulsedMedia said: This is surreal, can't be for real right ... Riiight?

    Is it fake/parody or real?

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @ps20090 said:

    @PulsedMedia said: This is surreal, can't be for real right ... Riiight?

    Is it fake/parody or real?

    Not familiar with Swiss media, but site & article looks legit.
    start of the article via google translate:

    Those who overheat their homes could risk prison
    In the event of an energy shortage, the plan of the Federal Council is clear: it will be necessary to heat less. For those who violate the gas ordinance, the penalties could be severe, ranging from a simple fine to...jail.

  • chihcherngchihcherng Veteran
    edited September 2022

    @PulsedMedia said:

    This is surreal, can't be for real right ... Riiight?

    According to Reuters 6 days ago, this was still a draft decree:
    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/swiss-government-launches-energy-conservation-campaign-2022-08-31/
    "A draft decree under discussion calls for banning gas for heating vacant buildings, swimming pools, spas or saunas. Gas could not be used in fireplaces or heated tents.
    Rooms heated with gas cannot be warmed greater than 19 degrees Celsius (66.2°F), with water heaters capped at 60 degrees."

    But Sputnik, a Russian state-owned news agency, reported 2 hours ago that:
    https://sputniknews.com/20220906/swiss-overheating-homes-in-winter-may-face-prison---reports-1100462465.html
    "Swiss, who will overheat their homes to over 19 degrees Celsius (66.2 degrees Fahrenheit) this winter in violation of government directives in the event of gas shortages, will face fines and prison sentence of up to three years, Swiss economic department spokesman Markus Sporndli told the Blick newspaper on Tuesday."

    Thanked by 1PulsedMedia
  • Isn't there snow in Switzerland? Am I missing something or all you guys whining about 19*C a bunch of fucking pussies?

    (I'm going through a heat wave so I have zero fucks to give about heating above 19*C).

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @chihcherng said:

    @PulsedMedia said:

    This is surreal, can't be for real right ... Riiight?

    According to Reuters 6 days ago, this was still a draft decree:
    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/swiss-government-launches-energy-conservation-campaign-2022-08-31/
    "A draft decree under discussion calls for banning gas for heating vacant buildings, swimming pools, spas or saunas. Gas could not be used in fireplaces or heated tents.
    Rooms heated with gas cannot be warmed greater than 19 degrees Celsius (66.2°F), with water heaters capped at 60 degrees."

    But Sputnik, a Russian state-owned news agency, reported 2 hours ago that:
    https://sputniknews.com/20220906/swiss-overheating-homes-in-winter-may-face-prison---reports-1100462465.html
    "Swiss, who will overheat their homes to over 19 degrees Celsius (66.2 degrees Fahrenheit) this winter in violation of government directives in the event of gas shortages, will face fines and prison sentence of up to three years, Swiss economic department spokesman Markus Sporndli told the Blick newspaper on Tuesday."

    good checkup!

    Ofc Sputnik being russian state-owned would promote this as a fact then, even if just in draft stage.

    We see that kind of stuff happening in Finland constantly for the most craziest green ecoterrorist plans, sometimes before even the draft is even being presented to those who decide, that is to try and squash any opposition to those in the hopes they accidentally pass. Sadly it works and sometimes they do.

  • rubenruben Member, Host Rep

    @chihcherng said: According to Reuters 6 days ago, this was still a draft decree:

    Swiss here, putting my political hat on, indeed it's a draft that the government sent into consultation till 22.9 or so. Now everyone from the gas companys to the municipality and home owners association can make suggestions and say what they dislike and like about it.
    The process is pretty inclusive and the stakeholders have a large say in it, input will be considered. During the pandemic, it has shown that the stakeholders have a large influence on the policy. Just because it's a draft does not mean it's going to happen this way, changes are always made.

    The draft suggests a 4 level escalation plan that would come into action IF there is a limitation in gas supply (currently there is none).
    Level 1 urges the public and companies to conserve, level 2 dual-use systems should change to oil instead of gas. Level 3 would mean limiting the usage of gas in production, lowering the heating first in saunas, public baths (shutdown also possible since not necessary), public buildings, offices (in such order) and as a last step public households. Public households are as in the EU considered a group protected from cuts.
    Level 4 would then mean contingents and are distributed and would mean hard cuts.

    Gas heating is not as common, about 20% is gas heated, 39% oil, 18% heating pumps, 10% wood (latest official data from 2017, the amount of heating pumps has significantly risen since then and replaced oil and gas).
    Gas is mostly used in the "lowlands", in the mountains where it's really cold in winter most is oil, geothermic, and wood.

    Blick is somewhat comparable to the german BILD or maybe the Sun in the UK.

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 2022

    @ruben said:

    @chihcherng said: According to Reuters 6 days ago, this was still a draft decree:

    Swiss here, putting my political hat on, indeed it's a draft that the government sent into consultation till 22.9 or so. Now everyone from the gas companys to the municipality and home owners association can make suggestions and say what they dislike and like about it.
    The process is pretty inclusive and the stakeholders have a large say in it, input will be considered. During the pandemic, it has shown that the stakeholders have a large influence on the policy. Just because it's a draft does not mean it's going to happen this way, changes are always made.

    The draft suggests a 4 level escalation plan that would come into action IF there is a limitation in gas supply (currently there is none).
    Level 1 urges the public and companies to conserve, level 2 dual-use systems should change to oil instead of gas. Level 3 would mean limiting the usage of gas in production, lowering the heating first in saunas, public baths (shutdown also possible since not necessary), public buildings, offices (in such order) and as a last step public households. Public households are as in the EU considered a group protected from cuts.
    Level 4 would then mean contingents and are distributed and would mean hard cuts.

    Gas heating is not as common, about 20% is gas heated, 39% oil, 18% heating pumps, 10% wood (latest official data from 2017, the amount of heating pumps has significantly risen since then and replaced oil and gas).
    Gas is mostly used in the "lowlands", in the mountains where it's really cold in winter most is oil, geothermic, and wood.

    Blick is somewhat comparable to the german BILD or maybe the Sun in the UK.

    Thanks for chipping in! :)

    Outlook indeed is quite grim on the whole eurozone. It's not much brighter elsewhere either. Both energy and food are going to be in short supply come winter. Chinese are having their own issues.

    Bankruptcy news is daily occurense already in Finland.

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited September 2022

    @ruben said:

    @chihcherng said: According to Reuters 6 days ago, this was still a draft decree:

    Swiss here, putting my political hat on, indeed it's a draft that the government sent into consultation till 22.9 or so. Now everyone from the gas companys to the municipality and home owners association can make suggestions and say what they dislike and like about it.
    The process is pretty inclusive and the stakeholders have a large say in it, input will be considered. During the pandemic, it has shown that the stakeholders have a large influence on the policy. Just because it's a draft does not mean it's going to happen this way, changes are always made.

    The draft suggests a 4 level escalation plan that would come into action IF there is a limitation in gas supply (currently there is none).
    Level 1 urges the public and companies to conserve, level 2 dual-use systems should change to oil instead of gas. Level 3 would mean limiting the usage of gas in production, lowering the heating first in saunas, public baths (shutdown also possible since not necessary), public buildings, offices (in such order) and as a last step public households. Public households are as in the EU considered a group protected from cuts.
    Level 4 would then mean contingents and are distributed and would mean hard cuts.

    Gas heating is not as common, about 20% is gas heated, 39% oil, 18% heating pumps, 10% wood (latest official data from 2017, the amount of heating pumps has significantly risen since then and replaced oil and gas).
    Gas is mostly used in the "lowlands", in the mountains where it's really cold in winter most is oil, geothermic, and wood.


    Blick is somewhat comparable to the german BILD or maybe the Sun in the UK.

    Summed up best from 1:35-1:41

    Thanked by 1bikegremlin
  • @machinetto said:

    @vyas11 said:
    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

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