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European energy crisis, EUR:USD Exchange rate etc. wreaking havoc on European providers

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Comments

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited September 2022

    @dosai said:

    @machinetto said:

    @vyas11 said:
    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

    Depends on location.

    Rare power cuts in Gujarat or Mumbai. Heck even with the rains and so called flooding we got power here in Ka

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @dosai said:

    @machinetto said:

    @vyas11 said:
    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

    wow, where is this?
    Finland quite the opposite, typically just under 1second brownouts. I cannot recall a legitimate grid power outage in cities happening in a really long time, apart from maintenance and small scale stuff.

    It's so reliable that UPS can actually introduce you to more downtime than not having one, and in fact is quite often the case.

  • @PulsedMedia said:

    @dosai said:

    @machinetto said:

    @vyas11 said:
    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

    wow, where is this?
    Finland quite the opposite, typically just under 1second brownouts. I cannot recall a legitimate grid power outage in cities happening in a really long time, apart from maintenance and small scale stuff.

    It's so reliable that UPS can actually introduce you to more downtime than not having one, and in fact is quite often the case.

    Chennai :/

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited September 2022

    @dosai said:

    @PulsedMedia said:

    @dosai said:

    @machinetto said:

    @vyas11 said:
    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

    wow, where is this?
    Finland quite the opposite, typically just under 1second brownouts. I cannot recall a legitimate grid power outage in cities happening in a really long time, apart from maintenance and small scale stuff.

    It's so reliable that UPS can actually introduce you to more downtime than not having one, and in fact is quite often the case.

    Chennai :/

    Welcome to land of free electricity ;-)
    Why you complaining, man??

    100 units of free supply is being continued for all domestic consumers

    Thanked by 1hostdare
  • ThundasThundas Member
    edited September 2022

    This was Putin's & china's plan in the making decades ago, support the green crowd with funds & donations, get nuclear energy phased out, sell cheap gas to Europe & become Europe's lifeline in energy, and get a huge port in the black sea for the eventual completion of china's belt & road initiative, start a land war in Europe to kickstart the world energy crisis. Citizens all over Europe will start blaming the EU & the dissolution of the European Union will start. With the downfall of the European Union, the united states stand alone in the rise of the red dragon in the upcoming century.

    This is a fictional story

    Thanked by 3ehab PulsedMedia Abd
  • @vyas11 said:

    @dosai said:

    @PulsedMedia said:

    @dosai said:

    @machinetto said:

    @vyas11 said:
    Watching the utility rates, Exchange rate, and the inflation - then US, heck even hosting in Asia might prove more cost effective this BF. Market dynamics are quite interesting.

    India has a lot of undersea cables to europe and power is cheap and almost no competition. Surprised it hasn't become the next big choice after Singapore.

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

    wow, where is this?
    Finland quite the opposite, typically just under 1second brownouts. I cannot recall a legitimate grid power outage in cities happening in a really long time, apart from maintenance and small scale stuff.

    It's so reliable that UPS can actually introduce you to more downtime than not having one, and in fact is quite often the case.

    Chennai :/

    Welcome to land of free electricity ;-)
    Why you complaining, man??

    100 units of free supply is being continued for all domestic consumers

    Can you survive under 100 units lol?

    https://www.electrical4u.net/calculator/tneb-bill-calculator-tneb-reading-calculator/

    If you cross 500 units mark it becomes very expensive. I use AC only when it's absolutely necessary.

  • jiggawattjiggawatt Member
    edited September 2022

    @vyas11 said:

    @dosai said:

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

    Depends on location.

    Rare power cuts in Gujarat or Mumbai. Heck even with the rains and so called flooding we got power here in Ka

    In my hotel in Navi Mumbai, there were power outages every day. Not sure where this happened on the grid, but I’m sure it would be challenging for industrial users.

    And then the problem is that a growing data centre industry would put more stress on this grid, and in theory this means the utilities invest and upgrade, but you know… Usually industries in India which need high quality electricity build their own power plant, right?

  • kasodkkasodk Barred
    edited September 2022

    The EU plan to force the energy prices down by putting a cap on Russian gas and the revenues of companies producing electricity with low costs. They will be discussing it Friday and I hope they can come to an agreement and implement it fast.

    The statement from the EU president:

    We are facing an extraordinary situation, because Russia is an unreliable supplier and is manipulating our energy markets.

    Our unity and our solidarity will ensure that we will prevail!

    We have increased our preparedness and weakened Russia's grip on our energy supply through demand reduction – which allowed our common storages to be at 82%.

    Through diversification we have increased deliveries of LNG or pipeline gas from the US, Norway, Algeria, Azerbaijan, and others. For example Norway is now delivering more gas to the EU than Russia. And we are making massive investments in home-grown renewables through RePowerEU.

    But we also see that the manipulation of the gas markets has a spillover effect on the electricity market.

    We are confronted with astronomic electricity prices for households and companies and with enormous market volatility.

    Therefore, we will put forward a set of immediate measures that will protect vulnerable consumers and businesses and help them adapt.

    First, Smart Savings of Electricity. What has changed is global energy supply is scarce. This calls for smart reduction in demand. We need a strategy to flatten the peaks which drives the price of electricity.

    We will propose a mandatory target for reducing electricity use at peak hours. And we will work closely with the Member States to achieve this.

    Second, we will propose a cap on revenues of companies producing electricity with low costs.

    Low carbon energy sources are making unexpected revenues, which do not reflect their production costs.

    It is now time for consumers to benefit from the low costs of low carbon energy sources, like renewables.

    So we will propose to re-channel these unexpected profits to support vulnerable people and companies to adapt.

    Third, the same has to go for unexpected profits of fossil fuel companies.

    Oil and gas companies have also made massive profits. We will therefore propose a solidarity contribution for fossil fuel companies.

    Because all energy sources must help address this crisis.

    And Member States should invest these revenues to support vulnerable households and invest in clean home-grown energy sources.

    Fourth, energy utility companies must be supported to cope with the volatility of the markets.

    They are currently being requested to provide unexpectedly large amounts of funds, which threatens their capacity to trade and the stability of the future markets.

    Thus we will help to facilitate Liquidity Support by Member States for energy companies.

    We will update our temporary framework to enable state guarantees to be delivered rapidly.

    And fifth, we will propose a cap on Russian gas.

    The objective here is very clear. We must cut Russia's revenues

    which Putin uses to finance this atrocious war against Ukraine.

    And now our work is paying off!

    At the beginning of the war, Russia's pipeline gas was 40% of all imported gas. Today it is now down to only 9% of our gas imports.

    These are tough times. But I am convinced that Europeans have the economic strength, the political will, and unity to keep the upper hand.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/SPEECH_22_5389

  • @kasodk said: The EU plan to force the energy prices down by putting a cap on Russian gas and the revenues of companies producing electricity with low costs. They will be discussing it Friday and I hope they can come to an agreement and implement it fast.

    To then buy the same gas for 3x the price from Chinese as LNG. Sounds like a plan.

  • vyas11vyas11 Member
    edited September 2022

    @jiggawattz said:

    @vyas11 said:

    @dosai said:

    Electricity is very unreliable. I have power cut every single day, it gets worse during summer.

    Depends on location.

    Rare power cuts in Gujarat or Mumbai. Heck even with the rains and so called flooding we got power here in Ka

    In my hotel in Navi Mumbai, there were power outages every day. Not sure where this happened on the grid, but I’m sure it would be challenging for industrial users.

    And then the problem is that a growing data centre industry would put more stress on this grid, and in theory this means the utilities invest and upgrade, but you know… Usually industries in India which need high quality electricity build their own power plant, right?

    Very large factories, yes. Makes sense for them to have a captive power plant. Some actually sell electricity back to the grid.

    Datacenters will rely on grid + Diesel generators + (Solar for non critical lighting). If we disregard power reliability and quality for sake of argument, grid power is at about 10 US cents/ Kwh, Grid + diesel combined works out to about 20 US cents. 2x the cost which can be easily offset by some financial engineering. For example:

    Had an interesting conversation with DC folks last week- focus is now on net zero footprint, not just energy (water, recycling, equipment re use/ disposal, etc.) so the electricity cost conversation is non starter. In reality, they will certainly spin all the potential environmental savings into some financial bond or any other instrument, and sell it to an ESG (Environmental, Social, Corporate Governance) theme fund or investor. And subsidize the extra 10 US cents in electricity costs. But I liked to see this evolution -atleast when people talk.

    I can almost bet that the hotel you stayed in still had temporary construction power - that might explain the outages. @Abd stays in the area and he might be able to attest to the power situation - but typical how Hotel operators run their shops.

    Best rgds,

  • @kingpin said:

    @kasodk said: The EU plan to force the energy prices down by putting a cap on Russian gas and the revenues of companies producing electricity with low costs. They will be discussing it Friday and I hope they can come to an agreement and implement it fast.

    To then buy the same gas for 3x the price from Chinese as LNG. Sounds like a plan.

    It's a very small amount of Russian natural gas that has been replaced by LNG from China.

    But you are right, it is not ideal, but it is better temporarily to pay more as long as Russia earns a lot less.

    And China will not be a long-term LNG supplier to the EU countries if they just resell Russian gas.

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    Holy shit, we almost ran out of electricity this morning!

    Reserve power plants had to be turned on AND public offers were being requested, for friggin' 5000€/MWh -- 5€/KWh. They managed to get the situation under control. Dang, when demand increases in the winter ... Yeah.

  • @PulsedMedia said:
    Holy shit, we almost ran out of electricity this morning!

    Reserve power plants had to be turned on AND public offers were being requested, for friggin' 5000€/MWh -- 5€/KWh. They managed to get the situation under control. Dang, when demand increases in the winter ... Yeah.

    is this in Finland? where did you read this?

  • DPDP Administrator, The Domain Guy

    @ehab said:

    @PulsedMedia said:
    Holy shit, we almost ran out of electricity this morning!

    Reserve power plants had to be turned on AND public offers were being requested, for friggin' 5000€/MWh -- 5€/KWh. They managed to get the situation under control. Dang, when demand increases in the winter ... Yeah.

    is this in Finland? where did you read this?

    https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/finland-starts-two-backup-power-plants-prevent-blackouts-2022-09-08/

    Thanked by 2ehab PulsedMedia
  • kazawikikazawiki Member
    edited September 2022

    @PulsedMedia said:
    Holy shit, we almost ran out of electricity this morning!

    Reserve power plants had to be turned on AND public offers were being requested, for friggin' 5000€/MWh -- 5€/KWh. They managed to get the situation under control. Dang, when demand increases in the winter ... Yeah.

    5€/KWh :# And winter hasn't even started yet. When everyone uses electric heating in the winter :P

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    I see @DP already linked an article for @ehab

    Yea this was in Finland. I don't know if they needed to use any of that 5€/KWh rate, it sounds like they were ready to. Also somethings got shutdown to keep the grid going, it's an old school technique that meters have emergency grid issue control outlet, so the grid operators can shutdown appliances at large. Even i didn't know this exists before ~last week. It's completely optional tho, and separate control. In the old days used to control electric heaters in a home typically.

  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    Good talk about the situation, and that it might last for a decade:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=0Oh_w5KrEVc

  • @PulsedMedia said:
    Good talk about the situation, and that it might last for a decade:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=0Oh_w5KrEVc

    At first I was like: Time to fire up Duolingo again, then I saw there were subtitles :)

  • @Ahfaiahkid said:
    This was Putin's & china's plan in the making decades ago, support the green crowd with funds & donations, get nuclear energy phased out, sell cheap gas to Europe & become Europe's lifeline in energy, and get a huge port in the black sea for the eventual completion of china's belt & road initiative, start a land war in Europe to kickstart the world energy crisis. Citizens all over Europe will start blaming the EU & the dissolution of the European Union will start. With the downfall of the European Union, the united states stand alone in the rise of the red dragon in the upcoming century.

    This is a fictional story

    Please don't hide "! This is a fictional story" in the spoiler button next time.

  • vsys_hostvsys_host Member, Patron Provider

    Despite the current situation, raising prices is a too clumsy and short-sighted option. Many providers opt for more elegant solutions, adding new exciting add-ons that are worth paying for, discounts, and so on.

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • @vsys_host said:
    Despite the current situation, raising prices is a too clumsy and short-sighted option. Many providers opt for more elegant solutions, adding new exciting add-ons that are worth paying for, discounts, and so on.

    I think many providers simply do not have a choice. When the cost of running a server is higher than what you charge the customer for it, you have to raise the prices or you will literally lose money by the minute.
    Discounts are really not a solution. When you lose money on every server you run, selling more servers at an even higher loss is really not a good idea.

    Thanked by 2hostdare PulsedMedia
  • PulsedMediaPulsedMedia Member, Patron Provider

    @rcy026 said:

    @vsys_host said:
    Despite the current situation, raising prices is a too clumsy and short-sighted option. Many providers opt for more elegant solutions, adding new exciting add-ons that are worth paying for, discounts, and so on.

    I think many providers simply do not have a choice. When the cost of running a server is higher than what you charge the customer for it, you have to raise the prices or you will literally lose money by the minute.
    Discounts are really not a solution. When you lose money on every server you run, selling more servers at an even higher loss is really not a good idea.

    Exactly this.

    You cannot discount your way out when you are loosing money on every new server. ~10x electricity cost is no joke. And that's just the electricity, everything else is getting more expensive too, and electricity is used to make almost everything in the world, so it's double whammy accelerating inflation.

  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    @Ahfaiahkid said:

    This is a fictional story

    Haha:) No, of course, it's just imperialism - you always need to find a new market and expand. "Green", "Eco" is a very big market for this when you cannot capture a new market in the traditional way. Just say that humanity needs to do something about the "ozone hole", and voila, you have a reason to replace the old freezers based on freon with some other technology - get grants for new scientific research, implementation and production.

  • @rustelekom said:

    @Ahfaiahkid said:

    This is a fictional story

    Haha:) No, of course, it's just imperialism - you always need to find a new market and expand. "Green", "Eco" is a very big market for this when you cannot capture a new market in the traditional way. Just say that humanity needs to do something about the "ozone hole", and voila, you have a reason to replace the old freezers based on freon with some other technology - get grants for new scientific research, implementation and production.

    You are in fact a piece of shit if you think healing the Ozone Layer is a bad thing. Jesus F. Christ, STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID!

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @LTniger said: Services as seedbox is considered to be luxurious. It can be ditched anytime without regret and exchanged into self-managed seedbox which is a lot cheaper.

    Wow, you speak pretty knowledgeably on behalf of all mankind.

    Also: LOL.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    Has any major EU country told its citizens "you need to start conserving and using less energy"?

    The Economist wrote about this in March (paywall):

    "What is startling is how little is being asked of Europeans. Even simple measures that might barely inconvenience people are treated as taboo. Earlier this month the International Energy Agency (iea), which advises rich-country governments, suggested that Europeans might consider turning down the thermostat by just one degree centigrade. What might seem like mere virtue-signalling greenery would actually cut consumption by 10bn cubic metres of natural gas over a year. That is roughly one month’s worth of Russian imports. This modest appeal was relayed by precisely nobody in office."

    Has anything changed?

  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    @TimboJones said:

    @rustelekom said:

    @Ahfaiahkid said:

    This is a fictional story

    Haha:) No, of course, it's just imperialism - you always need to find a new market and expand. "Green", "Eco" is a very big market for this when you cannot capture a new market in the traditional way. Just say that humanity needs to do something about the "ozone hole", and voila, you have a reason to replace the old freezers based on freon with some other technology - get grants for new scientific research, implementation and production.

    You are in fact a piece of shit if you think healing the Ozone Layer is a bad thing. Jesus F. Christ, STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID!

    This is neither bad nor good. It just has nothing to do with reality most likely. We have no evidence that the "ozone hole" was caused by human activity. Just as we don't have sufficient evidence that climate change is related to humanity. Who knows, maybe it's just another climatic period. This is just one of hypotheses.

    If you trust everything you've watched in the media, then I don't know what you're drinking either.

  • rustelekomrustelekom Member, Patron Provider

    @raindog308 said:
    Has anything changed?

    I have heard that this is not just recommended, but also required now. It's not such a bad idea, in fact it's a culture of resource use. You need to save water, electricity, eat as much food as you need (about 40% of the products are simply sent to the trash).

  • @rustelekom said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @rustelekom said:

    @Ahfaiahkid said:

    This is a fictional story

    Haha:) No, of course, it's just imperialism - you always need to find a new market and expand. "Green", "Eco" is a very big market for this when you cannot capture a new market in the traditional way. Just say that humanity needs to do something about the "ozone hole", and voila, you have a reason to replace the old freezers based on freon with some other technology - get grants for new scientific research, implementation and production.

    You are in fact a piece of shit if you think healing the Ozone Layer is a bad thing. Jesus F. Christ, STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID!

    This is neither bad nor good. It just has nothing to do with reality most likely. We have no evidence that the "ozone hole" was caused by human activity. Just as we don't have sufficient evidence that climate change is related to humanity. Who knows, maybe it's just another climatic period. This is just one of hypotheses.

    If you trust everything you've watched in the media, then I don't know what you're drinking either.

    No, you stupid fuck, there is SCIENCE. With DATA. Plenty of it.

    You truly make me sad and angry. I used to think you were just misinformed, but I've realized it's much, much worse. SMH

    Thanked by 1ralf
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @rustelekom said: We have no evidence that the "ozone hole" was caused by human activity.

    Forehead slap beyond what any GIF could express.

    @rustelekom said: Just as we don't have sufficient evidence that climate change is related to humanity.

    I don't agree with you, but that's actually a completely different situation and different set of scientific facts. CFCs were identified as a problem in 1973 and by 1987 every country had signed up to get rid of them. In fact, it was the first universal treaty in UN history. How many things are there that every planet on the country agrees with?

    The elimination of CFCs is one of the least controversial things in history. It's like arguing that spam is not caused by human activity.

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