reasonable? Cancellation of service requires 30 days' notice.

Clouvider

@jenkki said:

@Clouvider said: We won’t engage any socialists vs capitalist discussion

No worries, Belarussian partisans already on the way to Heatrow to fix current situation.

Are you ok?

drizbo

So you're gonna be filing your claim to court in China ?

Also kind of weird for a company like yours to be sharing your customers personal info on a forum.

Clouvider

@drizbo said:
So you're gonna be filing your claim to court in China ?

Also kind of weird for a company like yours to be sharing your customers personal info on a forum.

What personal information did we share? We know for a fact it’s a fake.

drizbo

His location. But if you're saying you know its fake, then how will you be filing your claim against him?

jenkki

@Clouvider said: Clouvider

They are the hammers of the Gods. You never know.

Clouvider

Aaand we are out. Perhaps this place needs a little more moderation and a little less toxicity.

enjoy!

Clouvider

@jenkki said:

@Clouvider said: Clouvider

They are the hammers of the Gods. You never know.

Aaand we are out. Perhaps this place needs a little more moderation and a little less toxicity.

enjoy!

drizbo

Nobody will miss you

stefeman

@drizbo said:
Nobody will miss you

In fact many will do, despite that 30 (14) days cancelation time, their network and anti-ddos and support is premium.

I just cant tolerate such a thing in prepaid services sadly.

rustelekom

I remember that many providers in USA also require cancellation notice and usually it is equal to 30 day before next billing period so, you by default cannot order server just for one month. In the same time such providers do not ask you for setup fee so such policy look reasonable. At least when we talk about normal business.

If customer do not read providers rules and want set everywhere his own terms and conditions then this probably called as customer extremism.

I do not want say that such terms is comfortable for customers, but if you signed for contract, then you should understand you will need follow contract terms. Otherwise all the business will change to anarchy.

You may ask providers for exclusion you from common rules and provide some evidence that you cannot follow rules due to bankruptcy, bad credit state. mistake and so on. But i doubt that provider will value your evidence like "i have not read your terms".

frog

@jenkki said:

@jackb said: If you try exiting early from your phone contract you'll hit the exact same problem

Phone contract a other things and cannot be compared with it. If you get your phone for $1 with 24 Months contract you at least physically sign up papers with credit agreements in provider office. That real document you sign and must follow it.

If you not want follow this way you can buy phone for a full cost and get prepaid SIM card with no contract agreements. That your selection.

In first-world countries, we sign online with our electronic id issued by the government.
It is only in underdeveloped countries, you have to show up in a shop and physically sign a contract.

forgetm

@Clouvider said:

@dev_vps said:

@forgetm said:

@deank said:
I bet OP isn't giving us the whole story.

Either way, if you don't like it, SUE! For the love of the end, sue. Please sue. Sue.

The whole story is:
1) Orders placed on 16 Oct, is Dedicated Server Sale - Atlanta Unmetered E-2276G cv1 £108.00 GBP
2) The server is ready on 18 Oct
3) The 2nd invoice created on 4 Nov
4) After receiving the 2nd invoice, I making request to cancel it (I do this on 4 Nov).
Nothing else to hide

5) did not read the TOS about the cancellation. Assumed that server can be canceled anytime.

These TOS are a legal binding contract agreement. You don’t have to believe me. Hire a lawyer and get professional advice

And there’s also 6) Clouvider offers build to order dedicated servers - we do not ordinarily offer a stock, non-modifiable server such as some competitors the OP can be used to do. That means we have to engage physical labour to deploy the server, which costs, sometimes more than a Customer pays in a single month.

This works for majority of our Customers. Alternative would be to either increase the prices or introduce a setup fee, or fix the server specifications and make them non-upgradeable - something that would affect majority of our Customers negatively who in fact agreed to the rules and respect their contract.

While the T&Cs say 30 days we ordinarily enforce only 14 days. What this translates to: once we issue an invoice for the next month, which we do 14 days in advance in retail, then the service is considered renewed for another month and must be paid.

14 days is very little in this industry. We enforce a significantly shorter notice than competitors in the industry and we have a valid reason to do it - bespoke services. In enterprise services, such as ours, you will often find competitors with a 30 but often 90 days notice period, and that is on top of a minimum term - of normally a few years - that we also don’t have, unlike some of our competitors, some very known on this forum.

Our Terms are clear. The Terms are more Customer friendly then industry standard. This information is not hidden. No one is trapped here. No one is forcing anyone to buy from us.

Problem starts when someone doesn’t understand or outright doesn’t read the Terms and agrees to them. This is hardly our fault.

—

Another fact here is that unfortunately the OP, rather than engage in a normal discussion, started off by making threats that should we not cancel the correctly issued invoice, he or she will make it public. We will not be accepting this kind of threats, so they got OP nowhere.

—-
Another fact is that the OP is dishonest and provided false details with a fake Hong Kong address and phone number and managed to pass through Maxmind with … 0.28% risk score while using what appears to be a China mainland IP. We have provided details to Maxmind to fix this. I do start to understand better and better why some competitors apply more serious checks to Customers from certain countries. I suppose the open policy that we have at Clouvider may need adjusting - that’s why you can’t have good things, it often takes a loud minority to change policies.

—

Here’s the explanation of our very reasonable stance.

We won’t engage any socialists vs capitalist discussion, or whether it’s a right or wrong practise. We need to do it to keep the current deals. We are above industry standard with a better, more Customer friendly cancellation policy then most. Our Customers are happy with it, and so it will stay.

Hi Clouvider

I'm real guy from Hong Kong, but when I knew how your company charges, I immediately edit my profile information.
as you said "we ordinarily enforce only 14 days."??
I'm talking My cancel request is made on 4Nov, the service due date is 18 Nov. this is not 14 days? Is this my calculation wrong?
Why you refuse to talk/discuss with me in the ticket system?

Clouvider

@forgetm said: I'm talking My cancel request is made on 4Nov, the service due date is 18 Nov. this is not 14 days? Is this my calculation wrong?

It is wrong, sadly that is less than 14 days. 13 days and some change in hours. The actual rule that we follow in retail is full 14 days in advance = when the invoice is correctly issued it must be paid and the invoice is issued 14 days in advance in retail. We do not cancel correctly issued invoices. Your contract says 30 days - 14 days already offers a mountain of flexibility .

Why you refuse to talk/discuss with me in the ticket system?

This was already explained many times in the ticket by my colleague and the decision is final in this case. While there could have been some leniency before, we stick to our guns, so to speak, the moment we are threatened, and even more so, when you executed your threat here on this forum.

We will not engage further on the subject neither here, or in the ticket system, unless any new information comes to light.

drizbo

Of course you won't because you don't have any real basis to extort money from him. And him being from China makes it even worse for you. Good luck I guess

Nekki

Don't Hetzner have a 30-day cancellation policy?

Clouvider

@stefeman said: prepaid services sadly.

We don't see it as a pre-paid service. It's an ongoing monthly service with no defined end date, an open ended contract. Both parties agree to tell the other they will discontinue the agreement given 30 days notice, in case we'll look to terminate, or an effective 14 days when the Customer is looking to terminate. The party receiving the notice can then take this into account in their planning. We feel this is only fair when we are expected to have the capacity for you next month, as well as when we build the server to the specification that you order, meaning not only additional costs to us but finding a Customer for exactly this custom spec is not as easy as just chucking the server back to the pool to be re-used by automation a minute after you fail to pay or cancel.

forgetm

@Clouvider said:

@dev_vps said:

@forgetm said:

@deank said:
I bet OP isn't giving us the whole story.

Either way, if you don't like it, SUE! For the love of the end, sue. Please sue. Sue.

The whole story is:
1) Orders placed on 16 Oct, is Dedicated Server Sale - Atlanta Unmetered E-2276G cv1 £108.00 GBP
2) The server is ready on 18 Oct
3) The 2nd invoice created on 4 Nov
4) After receiving the 2nd invoice, I making request to cancel it (I do this on 4 Nov).
Nothing else to hide

5) did not read the TOS about the cancellation. Assumed that server can be canceled anytime.

These TOS are a legal binding contract agreement. You don’t have to believe me. Hire a lawyer and get professional advice

And there’s also 6) Clouvider offers build to order dedicated servers - we do not ordinarily offer a stock, non-modifiable server such as some competitors the OP can be used to do. That means we have to engage physical labour to deploy the server, which costs, sometimes more than a Customer pays in a single month.

This works for majority of our Customers. Alternative would be to either increase the prices or introduce a setup fee, or fix the server specifications and make them non-upgradeable - something that would affect majority of our Customers negatively who in fact agreed to the rules and respect their contract.

While the T&Cs say 30 days we ordinarily enforce only 14 days. What this translates to: once we issue an invoice for the next month, which we do 14 days in advance in retail, then the service is considered renewed for another month and must be paid.

14 days is very little in this industry. We enforce a significantly shorter notice than competitors in the industry and we have a valid reason to do it - bespoke services. In enterprise services, such as ours, you will often find competitors with a 30 but often 90 days notice period, and that is on top of a minimum term - of normally a few years - that we also don’t have, unlike some of our competitors, some very known on this forum.

Our Terms are clear. The Terms are more Customer friendly then industry standard. This information is not hidden. No one is trapped here. No one is forcing anyone to buy from us.

Problem starts when someone doesn’t understand or outright doesn’t read the Terms and agrees to them. This is hardly our fault.

—

Another fact here is that unfortunately the OP, rather than engage in a normal discussion, started off by making threats that should we not cancel the correctly issued invoice, he or she will make it public. We will not be accepting this kind of threats, so they got OP nowhere.

—-
Another fact is that the OP is dishonest and provided false details with a fake Hong Kong address and phone number and managed to pass through Maxmind with … 0.28% risk score while using what appears to be a China mainland IP. We have provided details to Maxmind to fix this. I do start to understand better and better why some competitors apply more serious checks to Customers from certain countries. I suppose the open policy that we have at Clouvider may need adjusting - that’s why you can’t have good things, it often takes a loud minority to change policies.

—

Here’s the explanation of our very reasonable stance.

We won’t engage any socialists vs capitalist discussion, or whether it’s a right or wrong practise. We need to do it to keep the current deals. We are above industry standard with a better, more Customer friendly cancellation policy then most. Our Customers are happy with it, and so it will stay.

First of all, I just saw you attacking personally, not discussing things.
Then when it comes to threats, who is actually threatening whom?
talk about threats,
1) I just request cancel the service at the beginning. Then rejected. After I said that I would not pay this unreasonable bill, what I got? "Give this to the debt collection agency", is it threats?
2) if the "30 days" is reasonable, shouldn't be a threat. we should be share to everyone clouvider have a great TOS.

jenkki

@Clouvider said: Perhaps this place needs a little more moderation and a little less toxicity.

I do nothing against rules. If you not recognize any sarcasm here that your problem.

jenkki

@frog said: In first-world countries, we sign online with our electronic id issued by the government. It is only in underdeveloped countries, you have to show up in a shop and physically sign a contract.

There NO ,,First world countries,, exist. Some kind of nazi ideology pushed in selected countries. Your big dick exist only in your dreams.

Rx192001

Totally fraud...Shameless

Nekki

@Rx192001 said:
Totally fraud...Shameless

Wat

Rx192001

@dev_vps said:

@jenkki said:
…. But if you stuck with unwanted product you can refuse it without prepay for the next month. And they must accept it. Everyone has a rights for mistake.

In this case, mistake has a price to it. If you chose to not to read TOS and blindly checking the box that you agree to TOS, then be ready for the legal consequences.

An example of "blame the victim"

Clouvider

@Rx192001 said: "blame the victim"

I see ourselves as victims here. I consider my people and my time valuable, instead I have agreed something with the Customer. Customer negates on this agreement. I spend my whole morning dealing with LowEndTalk, while my team spent entire day yesterday rewriting the response explaining the T&Cs the Customer already agreed to (but didn't bother to read).

We have definitely lost at least couple times more the Customer has paid in labour alone.

Meanwhile, as this thread continues and the OP decided to review us negatively elsewhere, I suppose it's time to share the experience with other providers via Fraud Record so they can avoid wasting their time with the OP. We, for one, will not be doing any further business with the OP.

NobodyInteresting

@Rx192001 said:

@dev_vps said:

@jenkki said:
…. But if you stuck with unwanted product you can refuse it without prepay for the next month. And they must accept it. Everyone has a rights for mistake.

In this case, mistake has a price to it. If you chose to not to read TOS and blindly checking the box that you agree to TOS, then be ready for the legal consequences.

An example of "blame the victim"

"Blame the victim" would be if the TOS was changed after the fact, and no notice was given.
If the customer agrees to the TOS - then they have to abide by the said TOS.
Whether or not the customer likes the TOS - that is besides the point. Whether the TOS is fair or not is also besides the point.

When you sign a contract - you better take the whole 10 mins to read it first. Any lawyer will tell you that.

bikegremlin

@NobodyInteresting said:

@Rx192001 said:

@dev_vps said:

@jenkki said:
…. But if you stuck with unwanted product you can refuse it without prepay for the next month. And they must accept it. Everyone has a rights for mistake.

In this case, mistake has a price to it. If you chose to not to read TOS and blindly checking the box that you agree to TOS, then be ready for the legal consequences.

An example of "blame the victim"

"Blame the victim" would be if the TOS was changed after the fact, and no notice was given.
If the customer agrees to the TOS - then they have to abide by the said TOS.
Whether or not the customer likes the TOS - that is besides the point. Whether the TOS is fair or not is also besides the point.

When you sign a contract - you better take the whole 10 mins to read it first. Any lawyer will tell you that.

On top of that - based on the provider's feedback, I'd say that the contract terms are quite fair and reasonable.

I've seen a 30-day cancellation period with a German domain registrar and that was one of the reasons for moving - I didn't like that policy. But I cancelled and moved in due time - and if I hadn't, I don't think it would be fair for me to complain about being invoiced.

dev_vps

@Rx192001 said:

@dev_vps said:

@jenkki said:
…. But if you stuck with unwanted product you can refuse it without prepay for the next month. And they must accept it. Everyone has a rights for mistake.

In this case, mistake has a price to it. If you chose to not to read TOS and blindly checking the box that you agree to TOS, then be ready for the legal consequences.

An example of "blame the victim"

In my opinion, OP is not the victim here.

He didn’t read TOS before submitting the order. How is that provider’s fault?

OP keeps on saying that the TOS are unreasonable. Well, then do not sign the service in that case.

deank

It's like marrying a girl and later finds out that the girl is a tranny.

A little due diligence will help.

bikegremlin

@dev_vps said:

@Rx192001 said:

@dev_vps said:

@jenkki said:
…. But if you stuck with unwanted product you can refuse it without prepay for the next month. And they must accept it. Everyone has a rights for mistake.

In this case, mistake has a price to it. If you chose to not to read TOS and blindly checking the box that you agree to TOS, then be ready for the legal consequences.

An example of "blame the victim"

In my opinion, OP is not the victim here.

He didn’t read TOS before submitting the order. How is that provider’s fault?

OP keeps on saying that the TOS are unreasonable. Well, then do not sign the service in that case.

If that were set for say 90 days or longer, AND put in fine print somewhere not visible, then it could be said that it is "shady." But if it's 30 (practically 14) days, and clearly visible - then it's not reasonable to complain, if you've agreed to a deal.

Having said that - the provider could place that to be clearly visible and put in plain English - like MXroute did ("human interpretation")").

Nekki

Op's a twat, end of. As are joyless cunts joining the pile-on.

30 day termination may not be the standard at the low-end of things, but it's not by any means uncommon - as I said earlier, Hetzner do the same and no-ones attempting to kick the shit out of them.

It makes it worse that this is a custom build! What shithouse expects someone to build them a server to their spec and then they can avoid paying anything? Absolutely cuntery.

drizbo

@Nekki said:
Op's a twat, end of. As are joyless cunts joining the pile-on.

30 day termination may not be the standard at the low-end of things, but it's not by any means uncommon - as I said earlier, Hetzner do the same and no-ones attempting to kick the shit out of them.

It makes it worse that this is a custom build! What shithouse expects someone to build them a server to their spec and then they can avoid paying anything? Absolutely cuntery.

Funny coming from someone who said he ordered and returned 14 hetzner servers in past week. You're the hypocritical cunt yourself.

This guy did pay 1st month, since you are saying he avoids paying anything. On the other hand, thats exactly what you did, "avoid paying anything".

https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/3295069#Comment_3295069