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@Jacob We only purchase Dell hard drives (although some servers come with non-Dell drives) which is why they tend to be more expensive for us.
I didn't provide a definition of LEB providers, I gave my opinion on ways to meet the 'LEB users' pricepoint as defined at LET being $7-or-less
So, it offends you that someone wants to understand the business model ?
Dell don't make hard-drives, they put stickers on 3rd party units - until the Thai shortage, they primarily used the WD Blue range (SATA) and H/I Ultrastar (SAS)
The spinpoint 4.7200 were a good £ per GB performing storage drive. Not done any tests since the acquisition by Seagate, but the specs have changed for example on the 2TB drives - 3 platters not 4 - which will decrease the performance.
Always liked the Seagate Cheetah for SAS - had too high a failure rate on WD raptors.
There is always the more-disks[heads]-vs-faster-disks[heads] argument (as well as SAS drawing more power than SATA issue, making the running costs quite different) - is raid-1 sas giving you any discrenable benefit at all over raid-10 sata ?
The hard drives are shipped from Dell for Dell servers in Dell hard drive caddies, thus they are Dell hard drives for all intents and purposes, it doesn't change the fact that they are more expensive than the drives we can purchase on Newegg. I'm fully aware that Dell doesn't make hard drives.
Why not? What happened?
Giving @othelloRob the benefit of the the doubt, I think he meant "low-priced hardware" as in self-assembled, poorly-tested whiteboxes using cheap desktop components, NOT the servers a number of LEB-providers here use, which are either true boxes from Dell, etc., or built and extensively tested using Supermicro motherboards, ECC RAM, SAS drives, HW raid controllers, etc.
Is that SW raid or HW raid?
@othelloRob I see what your saying, let me try to put it how I feel.
I understand why you are more expensive, you probably do offer better service than a bunch of LET providers, but that sort of thing just comes along with the price.
But you should understand from our point of view, its very very insulting for you to tell us off the bat we are overselling and using bad hardware. I don't think its fair to judge us like that. A bunch of the providers here work hard (Ramhost, buyVM, etc) to make sure that this is not the case.
So understand that the reason there is so much hostility towards you was that first comment about how we oversell.
You might mean well, but it sounded rude and demeaning.
I don't understand if you are just trolling or you are trying to bash a different market sector to get some clients.
Thank you, I'm not a native english and sometime I use the wrong term. However I think that isn't a big difference as, per Wikictionary, "definition" mean: "A statement expressing the essential nature of something".
You gave a list of key points (from your point of view) of LEB providers. That's a definition, IMO.
then
i.e. build something for that specific sector
then
My s/sheets say the system pays for itself at 93 people
In your list, 2 items over 5 are criminal actions (cash and run, nulled scripts) and other 2 items are "bashing your competitors without any proof" (low-priced hardware, overselling).
As there isn't a perfect design that fit all, "compromises on design" can be just be defined as marketing jargon (unless you don't want to assert that, in your opinion, "less memory and more cpu %age" is always better).
If I write a list of insults or unproved statements, telling that a combinations of those is the only way to explanation to your attitude, I would be offensive?
As I already said, I think that is quite offensive.
However, after your last post, I think that there is only one thing that I can say (or better, quote from @miTgiB):
@quirkyquark It is software raid, The servers from now on will be Dual L5420 4 x 300GB 15K SAS. I am not sure if this will fit under 0.8 Amps but we will see when all the parts arrive.
Fighting the right fight, hehe...
M
I never expected this thread to go on this long.
Good god, the whole reason people start a company is to work for themselves/make their own decisions.
So who cares what they charge, its their choice :S
Maybe this explains why they need to charge alot
http://screensnapr.com/e/dQBdDR.jpg
/me grabs popcorn
On a more serious note, I see the "cheap providers can't possibly be good" attitude quite often. It doesn't make sense. I'm with a few very low-priced VPS providers - and have been for the past 2 years - and I have never had any really bad experiences with the reputable ones amongst them. Aside from the usual things-that-go-wrong-at-a-VPS-provider (which have always been resolved nicely), I've had uninterrupted and good service. Now if I hear stories from some people that are with some more expensive providers... I'm happy I don't have any services there.
Bottomline: there are good and bad providers, both in the low-priced and higher-priced segment. Price says absolutely zero about the quality of a service, and reviews are a far more useful indicator of the quality of a service. Additionally, it does not make sense to constantly try and find reasons/fineprints why it would theoretically be impossible for a cheap provider to have a good service, as it's clearly possible. Unless you have specific reasons to believe a provider is not telling something, just accept that they provide a good service and move on.
And that's not what I said quote "The only way I can see the LEB concept being viable..." ending with quote "i.e. build something for that specific sector"
The "list" was largely put together from reading other threads on LET, the weekly "deadpools", and because I have actually seen the setups of several 'LEB' style providers.
I've never doubted that, it didn't take long to spot the regular names, both in terms of the
"oh, gawd, they've started another one" and
"please have more servers available soon, i have needs to fulfill"
that are mentioned at LowEndTalk, it's not my first "vist" here, although it took a while and a 2nd signup attempt before @Chief approved the ability to post.
And yet they seem to be regluar themes, or one wouldn't be specified in the posting/offer FAQ, and the other seen quite so frequently with the deadpoolers ...
So are you taking offence because you mistook what I said to indicate all LEB providers are like that, or because some LEB providers quite clearly have seen them as "valid" ways to run a business ?
The impression I get from the HostSnowy thread (which spilled over into/from other forums) is that cash-and-run was always the plan - am i wrong in that assumption ?
Swap "priced" for "grade", and you'll be closer to my meaning.
Exactly, the "excuse" for downtime/problems/whatever given by some (for example HostRail) was the quality of the self-assembled hardware.
I had to arrange the proper disposal of the kit used by one provider recently, I still have the scars from the poorly assembled tin.
I didn't mean that provider X who buys Dell is any lower quality than provider Y who buys HP, but that one way to be "successful" would be to pickup some desktop off ebay to save on the hardware cost, which IMHO is a short-sighted view.
Let me know if you do, i live in the same town, we can go for a drink or 20
Rob.
How can you come here and say everyone here is a get cash and go? You've run 7 companies before all which are dissolved.
Your companies credit rating is terrible, and you only started making profit recently. Yet your apparently better because "your premium" then all the companies here.
I never said that at all, I said I've seen examples of that in the threads here (and at other forums) ... so are you just "trolling", is there a personal issue I'm not immediately aware of, or have we upset you in some way ?
Yes, acquire, merge into the main company, dissolve - that is the normal process for M&A's
Never claimed to be "better" - different possibly, but not "better".
I came to the thread, as it was forwarded to me by a client, and by someone at the WHMCS forum, and by a PM @ WHT - I've stayed because I'm genuinely interested in how people make it work, as we find ourselves in this industry segment via one of the providers from here.
The primary factor behind most of us is enjoyment. None of the LE providers are in this hoping for a high payout; as long as we stay in the black and continue to love what we do, we're happy.
IMHO (and from prior experience), that beats sitting in a stuffy office wearing a tie any day, regardless of salary.
This is unimportant once bills are paid and rent/food is covered, but access to hookers/alcohol might be a high priority for some.
Surely you meant "fillies of the night"?
There's a reason I take bribes :P
A real passion for this job is the defining character of all the best LEB's providers, at least on my limited experience. It shows brightly, on many levels, and the end result is a customer experience far better than the price level. As a recent example, I placed a ticket for a crashed server on saturday evening (non working day and non business hour) and have it sorted out after 15 minutes. This was a low-priced unmanaged VPS with a best-effort support. The provider had no obligations to resolve the issue immediately, but it did because a crashed server has a impact on its pride. Try that with some professional enterprise service provider and a best effort support contract: you are lucky if they start looking at the ticket in less than a hour. And if you have a 24/7 contract on some "enterprise" providers, the night-shift technician response could be, well, disappointing. On LEB providers, you mostly interact with the same people that designed all the setup. Enterprise hardware is only half of the "value for money" equation.
Seeing this thread just made me check my account ...
I'd come up with a custom cloud VPS with James .... just looked at the annual billing for it and its gone from 55 quid per year to 180, without anyone telling me !!
Not overly impressed by that
Certainly looks like I will be looking for a new UK provider if the price is going to change !
His prices are ludicrous, granted, but maybe you should take responsibility for a phone call you chose to make? It's pathetic for him to profiteer like that, but you made the phone call. You chose to call it, without knowing how much it was going to cost. That's your responsibility.
i always said they where a scam/ripoff, He makes a shit load of cash from his phone calls. aswell as tons on his overpriced products
Any web host that uses a premium rate number for any kind of support or contact is clearly a scammer
He was forced to put the follow after i spoke to the regulator
I can't really speak to Othello but please clarify with them whether this is intentional or not first of all. If it is then it will likely (and quite rightly) be because some of the plans I had offered were not really sustainable, especially with the kind of overheads that Othello have.
Further, their plan is (ultimately) to move to their own Citrix system which doesn't allow any sort of CPU core sharing, which drives the price up understandably as well. This may be a factor in the increase.
Either way, I didn't tie anyone in with a contract so you're free to leave if you want to, though if you're looking for something solid and reliable then Othello is probably a good way to go.
World of Warcraft?
I'll agree with you on the telephone number - it's annoying. Regarding the prices they actually charge though there is an element of quality and stability to what they do.
Sure I have, they replied and also commented on my post on here ....
Here are the specs:
Cloud VPS
Memory 512 MB CPU(s) 1 CPU(s)
Network Speed 100 Mbps CPU Priority 10 %
Primary disk size 15 GB Swap disk size 1 GB
Included IP addresses 1 IP(s)
Heres the response i got when i highlighted this vast cost increase, remember it was 55, when i looked it had gone up to 180.:
"£180/year would be a significant discount on the normal ukcloud/vps-1 pricing of £20/month (£240/year) - unfortunately it's impossible to operate a high-availability, high-reliability cloud or vps service at bargain-basement pricing, as ukcloud/quickvps found out before they went t1tsup.com (for the 2nd or 3rd time)"
I don't really have any issues with people making a living and that are free to charge what they like, it's just the fact I wouldn't have found this out until i got a bill .....
I'm not going to beat around the bush - Rob is right. I agree though that there probably should have been some notification with some reasoning etc.