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There's at least 2 uglies in this thread that i'd love to be able to block... Their comments are quite repetitive and spammy. -_-
For someone who's called "reading fundamentals, you don't read much (or even at all?).
I have stated several times, unlike any previous email from hetzner this one is sent from blacklist@hetzner , that in itself is a threat to blacklist you.
Also " we may choose to cancel your contract." how is that not a threat?
Sure and I might say "I am gonna sue for X and Y reasons" which is also my right, but just because it is my right does not mean it is not a threat. "Threat" and "right" are not contradictory
what is methodical in an undefined limit !?? The phrasing of their email contradicts any possible def of scientific method, there is no methodology to follow if I don't know what my objective is. when you run an iterative optimization procedure you set a threshold, either budget-based, time-based, etc. What constraint should I define to end my usage reduction process Mr methodical redading fundementals ?
Irresponsible because as @comXyz mentioned + in one of my previous tickets, support has confirmed that you can use the port as much as you want without any restriction whatsoever and that there is no FUP.
A responsible way to do it, is like what they did with their price hike email, it was a notice (not a threat), and they said oh sorry we realized our pricing is messed up so we need to increase it. A responsible way is not blaming customer for using exactly what you advertised and write an email saying "sorry we messed up our traffic policy and we are changing it to ensure fairer usage of our network for our clients, here is an FUP, adapt your usage to it".
If you still see nothing wrong despite my clarifications, than I am afraid there is no point for us to discuss any further. You may as well enjoy an armed mugger with a gun and you probably won't call that threat.
Again, you don't seem to get it, no one complained about Hetzner reducing cost, we are complaining about shady and poor phrasing + things like " and then find ways of reducing it" , then explain to me what your limit is so I can find a way to reduce it accordingly. How can I find a way to solve a problem that you did not formally define. If they say their limit is 40TB I am fine with it, but I need someone responsible enough to state a limit. Please note, I am willing to actually pay an add-on fee for traffic, That is what I call a logical responsible solution, but they did not even bother to offer that.
have a good day
It is not that simple. A large population of users want unmetered and unlimited as an insurance for their sites to grow up with enough overhead. They will move to some vendors with true unmetered and unlimited bw.
Someone posted here a way to use ublock to hide comments from people you don't like (he used it to block racknerd). You may search for it and use it. That should make you a bit happier, I guess? less frustration when seeing comments you don't like and takes a couple minutes to set up
It's funny you keep repeating the same wrong claim over and over again.
LowEndLawyer != lawyer
oh oops. I misread, nvm
Screw that lack of "delete" button that is only available to moderators
like https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/3460244#Comment_3460244 (comment by @Arkas that was deleted because he can delete his comments!
)
Using Chrome on droid and no frustration just an extra scroll. xD
@ReadingIsFundamental != @afn
@kasodk I know I deleted my comment lol
but the thing is, LET still notified me as being tagged (because I was tagged in his post)
Sorry
do not underestimate collective wisdom. there is a organization called common wealth.
What claim is wrong? That they are allowed to dump any client outside of a contract period? that notified the client ahead of time? That there is no threat- they stated the obvious that they may not renew according to terms and conditions?
The reality is there are very few users pissed off at this move, so apparently it affects virtually noone. The ones that are pissed- I doubt seriously that Hetzner gives a crap. Noone will sue, noone will report them, there is nothing nefarious going on, people just want to be pissy (typical let). Hetzner made a smart move and very few people are pissed.
did you read my comment?
Telling you "hey I might actually dumb you" sent from blacklist@hetzner is in itself a threat, it is your right, yes, but it is still a threat.
Whether you see it as a threat or just a statement of intent is semantics, and kind of irrelevant as it doesn't affect the situation.
What you consider to be a threat is just a polite way of saying "We think you suck as a customer. We have a lot of customers, and you're using more resources than almost everybody. We don't want your business any more, but if you really want to stay then we'll consider it if you cut down your usage a bit. But really, you're just a drain on our resources, and even if you cut down, honestly it'd be better for everyone if you went somewhere else."
They're not forcing you to use their service and give them money. It's pretty clear they'd be quite happy if you choose to stop being a customer and giving them money at all.
Read my earlier answers. I am not going to be part of your endless loop.
I love how 500 people already linked all Hetzner sites stating "UNLIMITED" with no small text, no addendum, no nothing - YET they will still comment about how people agreed to the legal terms.
WE DID NOT. Hetzner states UNLIMITED everywhere. No additional notes, no extra legal text, just unlimited. That's why people are pissed. I also use Hetzner, but my usage is way below that - I do maybe 30-40TB a month.
So I'm safe. Or am I? If they kill 250TB/m users, what comes next? Then the average drops to 150. Then 100. Then 50. Either set a hard limit or stop pulling such bs. German customers should definitely contact German authorities.
No fan of "unlimited" being used for marketing.
There is always a limit.
IMHO, Hetzner is okay to say to a user who is using a lot of bandwidth that they need to reduce it.
Root serves might have a dedicated 1Gbps link but that is to the switch. Still share switch to router and router to peers.
We all share those peers and if OP is hogging a lot of the link to a peer I also use, then that could be degrading my server's connection with that peer.
Unlimited data might be just within the Hetzner data center or within their wider network. AFAIK they do not say this anywhere but they could just pull that out as a defence.
Really they should stipulate this like OVH does or at least use to. Not used them in a number of years...
I used to use Online.net as a CDN when I was running Masterson node and a media site. Pushed 1PB a month from 4-5 small servers and was not told off once. Less than 50 euro a month as well. Bargain.
Some people here clearly don't understand what false advertising means.
Simple rule I follow:
As electricity prices will keep going up, Bandwidth allowed will keep going down.
Choose providers and plans accordingly.
I could have said Opex (upgrades/ repairs / Service personnel and so on but that would be accurate yet more debatable).
Beyond any ‘false advertising’ claims, some people clearly don’t understand that Hetzner can choose who they have as customers for any reason (beyond discriminating against protected characteristics), just as the customer can choose whether to use Hetzner or not. They don’t even have to provide a reason, according to their own terms, for not renewing the contract provided sufficient notice is given.
That they said it was because of bandwidth usage is a courtesy, they could just as easily email and say we’re not renewing your service next month simply because we don’t want to.
The Wand Chooses the Wizard, Mr. Potter
This is not a claim. That is a fact.
You can't go saying "We offer unlimited traffic" and then send out an email that you're doing too much traffic.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/unlimited
It's either unlimited or change that shit into proper AUP wording which there is none. So it's false advertising as of now.
Except for the fact that every user complaining about it- actually got unlimited for the term they contracted for and Hetzner is exercising their right to not continue with them as customers. So the FACT is - users got unlimited and the fact is for some unprofitable users, hetzner exercised their right to not offer another contract. Those are the facts, nothing is false advertising. Many users were offered additional contract, some- with specific facts- unknown to us (except high bandwidth) were not offered additional terms. This may be due to where the bandwidth was being used and the cost for usage. High bandwidth to a local IX is different than high bandwidth to Australia. Just the facts. Final fact, noone is entitled to forever pricing or guranteed renewal unless its stipulated in the agreement- it is NOT
Hetzner has every right to drop the customer after their contract ends. No one cares. Just send out an email saying "We will terminate your contract" and don't give a reason a stupid as this.
Dont get me wrong. Big part of my servers are all at Hetzner. And I'll keep taking them on. 250TB is A FUCK TON! But then agian 250TB isn't unlimited. And the wording in the email is exactly that, we'll sanction you if you won't stop. That is textbook false advertising.
Probably Hetzner can directly say 200 TB for dedis, 20 TB for vps/vds, very clear cut. 200 TB can do a lot of things.
They don't need to say any amount. Just do an fair use AUP and you're good. They don't have that at the moment, that's the issue.
"If we deem you're doing too much we will cancel your service" - voila! Done.
thats the thing, it seems they used to have that clause but removed it to support "unlimited".
not that i think its fair for a $30 dedi to push 250TB but if its a buffet and everyone's eating the premium dishes too much, just react positively by changing certain premium items to limited servings, or offer paid add-on for premium unlimited servings, or re-estimate the overall cost and expected revenue and raise prices accordingly.
not acting like the buffet's still truly eat-all-you-can, yet stop people from eating too much or ban select individual from entering the buffet.
I guess that Hetzner higher management team has a new member, his task is to make profit. Naturally, he looks for all the means to make money, and does not care to keep up his predecessor's promises.
Maybe just route the high users on to shit, cheapest, congested network paths that take a long time to get any where and send them through the same network switches and ports to the point that it slows them down.
After all, they want unlimited- but not one of them said the quality or speed or optimization of their unlimited.
Did 300TB with them in a month with no issues, no slowdown. They do get hit with a lot of DDoS attacks so that may have been your issue.
This is a good idea, punishing them without breaking the promise.