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Keep away BuyVM and FranTech.
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Comments
it's more ridiculous for me to keep $ 5 without giving a service and to claim it as a divine right rather than to complain about giving $ 5 to a guy who wants to keep them because he has a list that says you're dangerous, you can refuse customers, but not taking money in advance and then saying that you can not give them back because he is a bad customer, if this happen inside a shop you risk some slaps but here we defend a guy who takes the money in advance and then decides that it gives you nothing, neither the service nor the money back.
Well, what I don't get is that a user writes Keep away BuyVM because of one very specific experience that does not apply to the majority of users.
If you are from a region that is well known for internet fraud and where fraudulent users are well protected from any governmental actions I can understand why a providers are triple careful.
It's best to leave enough evidence before you identify a fact.
This will be convincing, no matter which side you are.
Good luck.
Disagree on that, and the whole system is based on how much provider's trust each others judgement. It's customer information sharing by the back door, which is potentially illegal.
Anyways, I say that with a gripe about them. I've signed up to over 100 providers, bought up to 1000 VPS/shared plans. One particular provider (who happened to go out of business this past week) who I started an argument with over their non-intuitive setup decided to put my name on FraudRecord because it suited him. It's a total false claim, and contacting Fraud record to remove details goes ignored. It's 4 years old and I've came across an instance where signing up to a product was flagged, meaning I had to waste time clearing it up with the provider.
This is also while I worked for a separate company, so you get particular personal details affiliated with you that were used in a totally separate legal entity.
Ultimately though, I sympathise with providers who'll deal with a higher than average amount of fraud and chargebacks, they need to protect their business... but the whole Fraudrecord thing is intellectually dishonest.
All a bit OT, but I'd lean towards the host on this one, but TBF could simply not accept the order before it's submitted, since he seems to imply a clear and obvious pattern
Going down that route can get you in a world of hurt with money laundering regulations.
Buyvm has ridiculous clan discrimination.
How so? Users can pay with paypal and CC's and get refunds and such.
The only things that don't are crypto and alipay. In exchange, we do don't do fraudlabs/maxmind on those users.
OP's already stated (in ticket) he's working to address the issue with LETBOX and get it cleared out. Once handled, OP will get his services provisioned.
Do you think other providers would be approving him if there's reports of malware on him? Highly likely not.
Francisco
The payment is traceable, do you really believe that there are other good reasons to keep 5 dollars if not to want to keep them? There are no other credible reasons, if BuyVm does not want that customer and has not provided him services he must give those 5 dollars back, who tells tales to keep $ 5 of which he is not entitled is BuyVm, Francisco can rely on the system he prefers to decide if accepting customers or not, this does not give him the right to take the money for nothing.
Brings up an interesting question: What if, just assumed, LetBox can't prove their allegations but OP can prove his innocence?
He obviously suffered damage and harm. So: should it be done and forgotten oder should (a) LetBox pay up for the harm they've created and (b) should FR also be obliged to compensate OP (as they forwarded incorrect information and didn't care to check it) and to make their system more balanced and verifiable and to react quicker, say within max. 72 hours, to "customer" complaints?
Let me guess: we won't have many FR (or similar) using providers here who find that OP should be compensated for the harm done to him.
That, I'm afraid is one of the points that really attract providers to FR and similar. They can say they are not responsible and acted only on bad information outside their liability. I'd be pleased to be proven wrong.
I haven't had any affair with FR, but as far as I know, on FR we expect to see:
What's providers lose for fake reports: nothing
What's users need to do if reported: show clear evidence that they didn't do what were reported (which is much harder than show what they did)
Fair enough, huh?
Plus, users my not be even notified before they try to order new services. So if they order new services after several years, they'll probably need to deal with their records years ago.
Most providers hate to deal with blacklisted IP or trolling PayPal/CC chargeback. Likewise, most users hate to deal with false records.
We haven't invented a better solution to FR, yet it does not affect the fact that it is bullshit, useful or not. It can be easily explained by a reversed example:
Think if users can easily report a provider to a Provider Credit System without clear evidence, making the provider not able to receive money from further PayPal/bank transfer anymore (or on hold) as long as the payer relies on the Provider Credit System. The system does not review the report to decide whether it is valid. Then providers being reported need to deal with those reports before they can receive payments. The whole system runs on an assumption that most users don't do false report, so if a provider has a bad report, it is likely to be true. What a hell would that system be. But it is definitely the case FR bringing to users.
The OP is welcome to contact Alipay who'll then reach out to us to discuss the payment. For us, their global system is janky and isn't reliable enough for us to offer refunds through it.
Users have talked to Alipay asking for a refund and we do approve it sometimes. We had a good handful of people over the years trying to get a refund after using the service for 30 days, which got denied, but people that were deserving of one got one.
We went a year or two with the system where we just couldn't login. Receiving payments was fine, deposits to our bank account were fine, API callbacks were also fine. Global webpage itself was broken to a point that they just couldn't help us. We can login now but refunds are still unreliable.
I'll repeat again, the OP's already actively addressing the complaint. His details have already been found by other providers, though, and they may flag him in the future because instead of working to address issues he runs to the forums to start drama. Not a lot of providers want to deal with that.
Be grateful that the issue at hand is being addressed or there could be a handful more threads from him about the exact same issue.
Francisco
I didn't say that. What I said was refunding to another payment method is not wise because of money laundering regulations.
There's no way to guarantee that the PayPal, western union, whatever that you send the money to is the same person that paid you via alipay.
Exactly. I don't want it that Chinese users start dumping $1000 in my alipay account then requesting I refund it to a paypal account.
If a refund is happening, it goes back to the method used to make said payment.
No one should be taking the reports without at least reading them. The score is pointless other than as a way to tell you "there's at least something there". Karen reads every report card from top to bottom and looks for any stupid reports and looks for common things (eg. "this user has charged back on 6 different providers, probably an issue").
Francisco
Hay Mate,
I won't need to involved in that topic but it quit seems this client never contact us regarded his issue i see no ticket for that matter.
in fact while we do free BBox beta we did received multi abuse report we suspend the services and the client never contact us.
in fact while we do free BBox beta we did received multi abuse report we suspend the services and the client never contact us.
You're not at fault for this, no need to stick your neck out. The user had some issues and was reported for it. We report problem users too.
The OP can reach out to you to address it.
We're here waiting for them.
Francisco
Fair enough. Then if you do not want to risk money laundering and Alipay does give you these kinda problems which result in you being unable to issue a refund through said payment method cut Alipay. Refunds are a natural part of trade and also at some point a consumer right. I believe having double Standards for customers who do pay with AliPay and for those who don't is a bit of a problem. Both should have the possibility to get a refund through any of the payment methods you offer. Again if AliPay is a pita cut it and don't take customers who can only pay with AliPay.
To some degree, it's a trade-off. For example, if you want more payment options, you may have to look outside of Germany. The OP (= @Jiuling) wanted to use (and used) Alipay to pay. Do (e.g.) Hetzner or netcup accept Alipay?
Also, since the OP is on FraudRecord, he's very likely to be rejected by German providers as well, who may scrutinize customers from China even more than BuyVM do.
In short, if you're clean, you probably don't have much to worry about, but if you're not, then you probably do have to worry, no matter where you look for a provider. Running to a German provider isn't a solution in itself.
TLDR; @Francisco has rules and actually enforces them. OP gets angry and writes a thread about it.
Well, so do many other providers, but @Francisco tends to hire support with low emotional intelligence and possibly some untreated irritable bowel syndrome and/or gender dysphoria.
Really glad @Aldryic left for Thailand to get her surgery. Best wishes to her!
Well hate to say it but most stores are not going to be nice if you break their rules either. They usually involve sirens and cuffs.
This should be no different. If you think those employees will be all nice when they catch you try them out.
Sometimes I think that the reason of talking with clients like with shit, it's based on skin color, national, from what "world" or location customer, etc. Not kidding here, because with everyone who got fake problems with BuyVM totally organized and escalated by BuyVM, not by clients (I talk about 30+ different customers in different timeframe). Almost all of these people non-EU/USA citizens. ALL of them with who I was talk (Ukrainians, Belarus, Moldova, different people from the Philippines, Indonesia, Chile, Brazile, China, Vietnam, etc). All have some issues with English, with explaining their opinion the same as in native language, etc. But at the same time, with everyone who is from USA / EU - totally different level of service and carrying.
The images below, very interesting to be clear.
Very interesting, taken from here: http://aldryic.tumblr.com/
Are you think is just jokes? Based on a time, how this guy was talking with me, how this guy was talking with many other people, how this guy was talking with my friends from different countries, I have very bad logical assumptions about what is going on, and how easy everything can be explained.
None of this involves Aldryic. Besides, most of those stories are hilarious. I don't think you've ever played free online games that don't have south american servers.
It's fairly rare that we have any issues with a signup. The only chinese users we really get issues with are the ones looking to blast spam out the door, and the ones that signup with paypal and give "Hong Kong" details all over. The spammers get angry and rage off, and the bad details either fix it with us or pay with alipay.
Alipay isn't the issue, FH isn't the issue. The user was flagged for malicious activity and the provider that flagged him has come forward with additional information about said malicious activity.
The OP has his options. He can contact alipay if he wants refund, or he can fix his report. Fixing his report is the better option since it's going to follow him around.
Francisco
Just a wall of text to state: "I'll keep those 5 dollars in my pocket".
From my point of view they are just excuses and it is ridiculous to put yourself in this position for 5 miserable dollars.
I know that the real value is the sum of all these transactions put into the budget of a fiscal year, but when it becomes public it is shameless to keep on showing to everyone what youare willing to tell for $ 5, we are not idiots.
Maybe the customer is a scammer, maybe he does genocide every morning but this does not give you the right to keep his money otherwise you make an embezzlement.
it's just a clumsy attempt to delegate the responability to others, you have those 5 dollars. The rest is chatter.
I already said they're welcome to hit up Alipay for it if they want a refund, fairly sure it was in the 1st chapter of my novel :P
Francisco
+1 and you are not the police or law enforcement @Francisco. You cannot be arm-twisting the user (howsoever malicious he is) to get his name cleared off a fictitious private blacklist or you will just steal his money. Its you who has decided not to provide him service and thus the onus of refund lies on you only.
Agree that no matter what the user has done, not refunding his money because he is on a blacklist is not the way to go. That being said if he asked for a refund at AliPay would you grant it @Francisco ? Because you don't make it clear if you would, or if you were to tell the FraudRecord story to AliPay to keep these 5$. For what it's worth if you refused OP as a customer (which you have every right to based on the discoveries you made on FraudRecord) and he hasn't used the service, there isn't any reason for keeping his money.
Sure, but i'll absolutely slap another FR record on him for the whole ordeal.
Again, it's in his best interest to fix his issues.
Francisco
A drama and chargeback for 5$ are 2 different things.
Aight. That's for him to decide then. That way, in order to get his refund, he isn't forced to contact some private fraud list service to clean things up if he doesn't want to (although it might be beneficial).
@ OP If you want that refund, reach out to AliPay and be done with Frantech or clean up your fraud record and continue using Frantech or atleast have a better chance of acceptance at other providers.