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A simple question - do these European guys have gas cheaper than Russian? No, they didn't. It's just not possible. Therefore, gas prices will be several times higher, as well as for any other related products. But, okay, that is European sovereign decision so i would not discuss this too much. It's your way Europe.
Why would prices go down again, the EU decided to go "Green" and now is dependent on Russian gas. Someone blew up that pipeline that could have saved Germany but that would have taken an agreement with Russia and someone doesn't want that to happen.
When the repairs of the Danish gas plant are over, Denmark is going to produce 150% of its own needs and export gas. At the same time, Denmark is reducing the use of gas. So in Denmark gas will be cheaper than Russian gas.
Other countries have other plans.
Russian gas is not going to be replaced with other gas 1:1. Some of it is temporarily being replaced with more expensive solutions, but a lot of the gas is going to be replaced with water, solar, and wind energy, which are a lot cheaper than gas.
The EU will change to greener alternatives faster than planned.
So you can't understand that the 2030 green energy plan hasn't been implemented yet and some countries still are dependent on Russian gas.
Those plans are being implemented a lot faster now, but it takes time.
I guess if that is the case, Europe has already failed and we are just watching it decline until the 2030 green energy plan fails too?
It's hard to believe that Denmark will sell its gas at price lower than the market price, which is much higher than the original Russian gas price. Energy companies in the US have been making a fortune selling gas to Europe for some time.
Energy traders are making a killing exporting US natural gas to Europe as prices soar - with some single shipments bringing in $200 million
"Segalen said companies with gas to sell in the US can fill a large ship and send it across the Atlantic for around $60 million, with the cargo then fetching around $275 million in Europe."
Green technology is nice but as far as i know gas is also is green when it used for producing electricity or replace gasoline in transport. But, again - that is Europe choice. At least blaming Russia for "resource weapon" would be stop annoying us.
No, that doesn't make any sense. That's not how any of this works.
Win for the green ecoterrorist agenda -> Ruin modern civilization.
Now let's enjoy the fruits of voting in lefties and greens. Remember to vote for the greens or lefties, stop working and sell everything you own. Most of all, never procreate if you are white. Now go eat your nutritious bugs full of chitin.
Oh salaries will just follow eventually. The Great Reset is here, you will own nothing and will be happy
I sure hope so, but fixing all the damage will likely take decades.
The sad truth is that we do not have enough storage capacity for energy, and will not have for decades. All these solar and wind projects are completely moot, the sun does not shine on a damn cold winter night -- neither is wind always there neither, and when it is, it's at large parts of europe causing over production.
Here they are planning a new huge solar panel farms, upto 12GW which is about 50% higher than our consumption in the summer -- BUT you get like 5% of that during January when it is the coldest and demand is the highest.
Wind is less than 4GW here, and tons more coming, and it is already causing huge stress on the grid due to the variability.
What is needed is huge increase in base load OR storage capacity (thermal or electricity). Also it's quite stupid to use electricity for heating, since you loose a huge portion of the energy potential in the process of turning whatever you are burning into heat.
We just enjoyed many weeks of "low energy prices" in Finland, about 24-28cnt/kWh VAT 0%, now back to spiking 70cnt/kWh. It's only going to get worse during the winter.
According https://tecamgroup.com/10-examples-of-green-technology/
"green boilers are boilers that consume as little fuel as possible or use renewable energy. Natural gas, although it is also a fossil fuel, has the particularity that it emits almost no toxic gases such as nitrogen oxides, particles, carbon monoxides nor Sulphur. It releases more water vapor and less carbon dioxide. It is the most environmentally friendly fossil fuel in terms of emissions, with 204 grams of CO2 per thermal kW/h. Therefore, natural gas boilers tend to be condensed, which means that they recover the heat from the water vapor coming out of the chimney, achieving higher thermal yields with less air pollution."
So I wouldn't be too sure.
BTW. As far as I know, Europe has nothing against fossil gas. Europe would not like to receive gas from Russia, but is ready to pay for gas from Qatar, Morocco, Norway or the USA. In any case. fossils, like any other natural resources, have one big problem - they are not limitless and therefore early or later humanity will need switch to some other technology: wind, water, solar, thermonuclear, etc.
Air-to-water heat pumps are one of the cheapest ways to heat a house because they use very little electricity. And with a large amount of green electricity from wind power, it is the best solution for many. In Denmark, more than 50% of the electricity comes from wind power.
And we have started to use the overproduction of electricity from windmills to produce green fuels (hydrogen) for ships, buses, and cars.
The EU certainly doesn't like to use fossil gas. And all countries are reducing their use of all fossil fuels to reduce pollution. But it is expensive and takes time to change to green solutions.
Denmark is no longer going to use fossil gas from 2030. And private households are no longer going to use gas from 2035.
And the Danish fossil gas field will be shut down as soon as our neighboring countries no longer need it.
We are doing it to reduce pollution, not to save money. And Russia has only speeded up the process.
Not everyone can afford, or otherwise can install air-to-water heat pumps, or even air-to-air which are fraction of the cost.
Further, they do not reach the advertised efficiency on cold winter nights here in the north. In Denmark sure, much warmer climate there.
Windmills and solar are not stable base load, watch the video i posted earlier on this thread from a Swedish professor. Only reason denmark can be so reliant on wind is because Sweden & Germany provides you guys with the baseload.
I remember the video, and in generel you are right.
But don't forget that Denmark is also exporting green electricity.
You can se our electricity and gas import/export live and historical data at: https://en.energinet.dk
See. This is what I agree with. Stop blaming Russia for "resource weapon". EU wanted out (due to the Russian war of course) now find a suitable replacement and stop whining about it.
No, Russia broke the contracts several times and disconnected the pipelines.
And now the EU is replacing the Russian gas.
So stop making things up. Oh, I forgot you are Russians.
My point wasnt that (Also I'm not russian...far from it). My point is, EU should stop whining about Russian gas etc etc and do something about it instead. All this shit takes them so long but each day that goes by there are tons of new articles like EU is somehow mistreated by Russia. While, yes it might be so but whining about it doesn't change a single thing
Long? How's those few months so long? What revolutionary changes do you expect to happen in 28 countries within those few months?
Few months? If you didn't see this coming thats your issue. Baltics, Poland etc have talked about this for years on end. No one believed us. Now...good luck.
It's not like we know Russia better than Western Europe...
Well, you're from Baltic, aren't you? Do you have some magic wand to turn world upside down in this short period of time? Whatever you build it may take decade or more to replace existing technologies.
And then there are people like Orban who doesn't give a shit how the rest of the EU feel about those things which also take time and you can't do a shit about it.
Again, years are not "short period of time". It's been a discussion topic from our side for a long time that this much dependency from Russia isn't good and won't end well.
LNG projects in Estonia started in 2012. They weren't finished at that time, I admit that. But the start was there and now it's finished. LNG "boat" has been ordered and we're good on that part. AFAIK same goes for Finland, Latvia and Poland. No idea about Lithuania, haven't heard much in news about them.
Before NS2 was built Germany was also warned about this multiple times. But what do we know...
This is just something I see. No need to get worked up on it.
There are at least 5 EU member states who can't even build LNG terminal as they don't have sea.
With all due respect, thats for them to figure out. There are other ways and other things besides LNG.
LNG isn't even the cheapest. It's the other way around actually. But it was the fastest way for us.
You're not realistic here. Things don't work like that. Have it ever occurred to you, that some other countries, lets say Portugal or Spain (I picked them randomly) didn't have the same incentive to move away from Russian gas as ex .su countries?
Beside that you said that "LNG "boat" has been ordered". May I ask from which friendly and reliable partner nation which surely respect human rights, etc, etc ... does it come from?
Like I said, too much dependency. Lets take servers for example. You do take backups to another server right? So why in the world wouldn't you at least have an backup plan if such an critical thing for every day life goes up in smokes? I don't mean you need to start building for it straight away, at least have a plan. That's the issue with Germany at least, they didn't even bother to think about it.
It's an Argentina boat and US LNG afaik.
Of course, diversification is always important. But some people wouldn't like diversification. They just need to destroy the pipes.
Who? You know them, the USA and their followers: Great Britain, Poland, the Baltic States, Ukraine.
Why? Because in their countries, the government is not even pro-Western, but pro-American. Only and exclusively because of this, they are always against "Russian" gas. And it's true - they have been against Russian gas and economic cooperation with Russia for decades.
Estonia is not too much industrial country. They do not produce cars, planes or something like this. It is not bad or good it is just place which country take in international economic. Therefore their requests for gas is small compared with Germany or France.
I am reading this article now: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/12/business/economy/estonia-natural-gas-lng.html and there's a part which show exactly how things work in the reality:
“The general overview was that Europe had more L.N.G. capacity than it needs,” said Nina Howell, a partner at the law firm King and Spalding. After the invasion, projects that had not been considered commercially viable, “and probably wouldn’t have made it, then suddenly got government support.”
Whole world economy base on that. Lets take as example when covid came your storages of surgical masks (lets not go into argument how much they are useful, it's just example - it can be anything really) was empty. No one had them enough because in the past it wasn't viable to invest millions upfront in case one day they come handy.
When shit hits the fan everyone's smart and know exactly what we would need to invest into and built decades ago, but in reality taxpayers expect to see money spent for the things they need now instead of throwing it away for things which may or may not come handy one day in the distant future. Building more LNGs simply wasn't economically justified until it was.
I understand you, I really do, but lets be realistic, Baltic countries, Finland, Poland... had special incentive to not depend that much from their bigger threatening neighbour, but that's specific situation, you may not be so prepared for some other shit which may or may not occur once in the future. EU is not one state, but relatively big union consisted by 28 independent states, each with their own needs, directions and internal interests.
btw. we're getting tanker from the middle-east. Nice "independency" from Russian gas, right?
I am wondering where we will store it. Most likely renting some terminals from neighbour Croatia as a small country we are, without any direct incentive to run away from cheap Russian gas we never had a need to build our own.
We were fine with Russian gas until you guys cut off the supply.
I have no idea what they're talking about exactly and since it's paywalled I probably won't either.
Also our LNG project has been in the works for a decade now. Only stalled because each gov that came to power had its own ideas for/with it so it stalled.
Other than that I do agree with you.
Hmm, interesting, now when you said it and I refreshed url I also got paywal restriction, but not before.
Yes that's another problem also here (or rather everywhere).