Path.net Drama 2.0 - 5 or more Exchanges suspend them for unpaid bills.

byteangel

@matey0 said:

@byteangel said:
I see multiple groups of people here who are angry at Path for various reasons:

Group 1: Those who run or use stresser feel that Path has cut off their ransom source of income.

Group 2: Hosting providers who purposely allow IP spoofing and DDoS amplification from their networks, some of whose owners are present here in this thread.

Group 3: Path customer and their customers competitor; it seems those who don't use Path have lost their customer base to those who do, likely because Path is currently the only provider offering a game-specific DDoS solution that works perfectly when configured properly. I am not so much into gaming business but I don't see much options outside.

Group 4: Competitors of Path, especially those accused of stealing code from other companies.

Group 5: The Kiwiforum crowd and other small providers; just by looking at their Discord, I've seen multiple messages about violence towards women and all sorts of racist comments, indicating the type of people they are.

Group 6: Popcorn and Meme peoples who just follow others.

Group 7: Actual customers of Path and end-users who are upset about latency or stability issues.

As a business owner of an ISP myself, I don't understand why Path needs to bother informing their customers about their upstreams. It's their decision alone, and I'm pretty sure they don't even mention their upstream in their contracts or have any SLA about that. They may have budget constraints, and it's normal to cut costs or reshuffle their upstream providers.

I assume my comment might open up a can of worm, but this is my neutral observation from the situation.

Joined 3:19PM
What are the Coke prices like lately?

The price of coke depend on if some of you are either so angry or so free. The personal attacks started from you ("worthless opinion," as one of you said). I didn't name anyone here or disrespect them, but rather want this conversation going and avoid being derailed.

Can you have a professional conversation? Surely not!

emgh

Just avoid.

AS203446

@byteangel said:
I see multiple groups of people here who are angry at Path for various reasons:

Group 1: Those who run or use stresser feel that Path has cut off their ransom source of income.

Group 2: Hosting providers who purposely allow IP spoofing and DDoS amplification from their networks, some of whose owners are present here in this thread.

Group 3: Path customer and their customers competitor; it seems those who don't use Path have lost their customer base to those who do, likely because Path is currently the only provider offering a game-specific DDoS solution that works perfectly when configured properly. I am not so much into gaming business but I don't see much options outside.

Group 4: Competitors of Path, especially those accused of stealing code from other companies.

Group 5: The Kiwiforum crowd and other small providers; just by looking at their Discord, I've seen multiple messages about violence towards women and all sorts of racist comments, indicating the type of people they are.

Group 6: Popcorn and Meme peoples who just follow others.

Group 7: Actual customers of Path and end-users who are upset about latency or stability issues.

As a business owner of an ISP myself, I don't understand why Path needs to bother informing their customers about their upstreams. It's their decision alone, and I'm pretty sure they don't even mention their upstream in their contracts or have any SLA about that. They may have budget constraints, and it's normal to cut costs or reshuffle their upstream providers.

I assume my comment might open up a can of worm, but this is my neutral observation from the situation.

I am not sure why you even mention stressers and "Path cutting their income". What has that to do with the current situation? I think it's something different if you stop paying your bills while you are under a contract with certain transit providers, that is not "cutting expenses", that may even be considered as fraud. The fact that they went from a big, juicy red apple to a tiny pea (describing their transits and upstreams/peerings) speaks for itself.

I've never seen any Anti DDoS solution that works perfectly, there is no such thing as perfect. If someone promises that, they simply lie about that.

sillycat

@byteangel said: As a business owner of an ISP myself

You forgot to include Group 8: Path-paid shills/employees with brand-new profiles.

raindog308

@stefeman said: Some clarification is needed here:

So we were informed in a very angry ticket.

I swear, they pay someone to monitor LET 24x7.

byteangel

@AS203446 said:

@byteangel said:
I see multiple groups of people here who are angry at Path for various reasons:

Group 1: Those who run or use stresser feel that Path has cut off their ransom source of income.

Group 2: Hosting providers who purposely allow IP spoofing and DDoS amplification from their networks, some of whose owners are present here in this thread.

Group 3: Path customer and their customers competitor; it seems those who don't use Path have lost their customer base to those who do, likely because Path is currently the only provider offering a game-specific DDoS solution that works perfectly when configured properly. I am not so much into gaming business but I don't see much options outside.

Group 4: Competitors of Path, especially those accused of stealing code from other companies.

Group 5: The Kiwiforum crowd and other small providers; just by looking at their Discord, I've seen multiple messages about violence towards women and all sorts of racist comments, indicating the type of people they are.

Group 6: Popcorn and Meme peoples who just follow others.

Group 7: Actual customers of Path and end-users who are upset about latency or stability issues.

As a business owner of an ISP myself, I don't understand why Path needs to bother informing their customers about their upstreams. It's their decision alone, and I'm pretty sure they don't even mention their upstream in their contracts or have any SLA about that. They may have budget constraints, and it's normal to cut costs or reshuffle their upstream providers.

I assume my comment might open up a can of worm, but this is my neutral observation from the situation.

I am not sure why you even mention stressers and "Path cutting their income". What has that to do with the current situation? I think it's something different if you stop paying your bills while you are under a contract with certain transit providers, that is not "cutting expenses", that may even be considered as fraud. The fact that they went from a big, juicy red apple to a tiny pea (describing their transits and upstreams/peerings) speaks for itself.

I've never seen any Anti DDoS solution that works perfectly, there is no such thing as perfect. If someone promises that, they simply lie about that.

Because exactly the same guy who is in this thread and hate path, used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it), I wouldn't be surprised that he hate them.

Etherway that is my overall take from the situation I am observing, however some folks are not happy about my comments and thats fine. In fact I am interested to know about the paid bills, the claim is that they didn't pay their bills, where is the proof of that? I am exactly here to understand that part and not to derail the conversation with drama.

The picture shared here is obviously fake about DE-CIX email and its not even an official answer of DE-CIX but some fake email that is sent only to DE-CIX support unanswered. Why did the thread started with a lie in the first place? These are the question I have.

Now again some of you will start to personally attack me, it's fine.

sillycat

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

AS203446

@byteangel said:

The picture shared here is obviously fake about DE-CIX email and its not even an official answer of DE-CIX but some fake email that is sent only to DE-CIX support unanswered. Why did the thread started with a lie in the first place? These are the question I have.

Doğan Öcal is an employee of DE-CIX and the e-mail does not seem to be fake... I think there was some social engineering to get de-cix to reply to an email address that looks like the official path domain.

Check this image: https://postlmg.cc/3dqW9TYg

byteangel

@sillycat said:

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

Here is your proof https://ibb.co/9pWxmgS

You guys are shamelessly mobbing other peoples/companies for a purpose. What is that purpose exactly?

Levi

@byteangel said:

@sillycat said:

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

Here is your proof https://ibb.co/9pWxmgS

You guys are shamelessly mobbing other peoples/companies for a purpose. What is that purpose exactly?

To satisfy twisted morale, induce drama where it is none and to run away from personal, misserable life.

totally_not_banned

@byteangel said:
DDoS as a Service

Yeah, DDoS service is probably about what a distanced professional outside of a scene environment would call it.

the claim is that they didn't pay their bills, where is the proof of that? I am exactly here to understand that part and not to derail the conversation with drama.

Well, they seem to have lost substantial capacity, which seems unlikely to have happened on purpose? You are free to correct me if i'm wrong though.

As for the whole flavor of the situation: By what i've seen in relation to them it seems pretty much self inflicted. You sleep how you bed yourself - meaning if you breed an environment full of meme kids and scene people (as sad as it is to apply this to the modern internet...) the result will look something like this.

@sillycat said:

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

Exactly. Name and shame please. This is LET after all and we just love those juicy details. As is that statement doesn't look overly convincing. I mean, you actually even accused me of operating such nonsense, which is kind of hilarious as even back in the Stacheldraht/TFN days (aka when DDoS was somewhat new and exciting - anyone remember when the FBI contacted Mixter?) i didn't have much of an interest in it.

sillycat

@byteangel said: Here is your proof https://ibb.co/9pWxmgS

Are you being intentionally dumb? A screenshot of yet another Path shill agreeing with you has nothing to do with your original claim being that "the same guy who is in this thread and hate path, used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)".

byteangel

@totally_not_banned said:

@byteangel said:
DDoS as a Service

Yeah, DDoS service is probably about what a distanced professional outside of a scene environment would call it.

the claim is that they didn't pay their bills, where is the proof of that? I am exactly here to understand that part and not to derail the conversation with drama.

Well, they seem to have lost substantial capacity, which seems unlikely to have happened on purpose? You are free to correct me if i'm wrong though.

As for the whole flavor of the situation: By what i've seen in relation to them it seems pretty much self inflicted. You sleep how you bed yourself - meaning if you breed an environment full of meme kids and scene people (as sad as it is to apply this to the modern internet...) the result will look something like this.

@sillycat said:

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

Exactly. Name and shame please. This is LET after all and we just love those juicy details. As is that statement doesn't look overly convincing.

I agree with you, loosing capacity is something I would like to find out myself what is going on, keep in mind what is the largest DDoS attack 2.4Tbit ? even having 3Tbit with enough compute should be good enough theoretically.

I will find about that and let you guys know.

kait

It's funny because the only one in this discussion that launches DDoS attacks (that I know of) is Path themselves.

LTGT

@byteangel said:

@totally_not_banned said:

@byteangel said:
DDoS as a Service

Yeah, DDoS service is probably about what a distanced professional outside of a scene environment would call it.

the claim is that they didn't pay their bills, where is the proof of that? I am exactly here to understand that part and not to derail the conversation with drama.

Well, they seem to have lost substantial capacity, which seems unlikely to have happened on purpose? You are free to correct me if i'm wrong though.

As for the whole flavor of the situation: By what i've seen in relation to them it seems pretty much self inflicted. You sleep how you bed yourself - meaning if you breed an environment full of meme kids and scene people (as sad as it is to apply this to the modern internet...) the result will look something like this.

@sillycat said:

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

Exactly. Name and shame please. This is LET after all and we just love those juicy details. As is that statement doesn't look overly convincing.

I agree with you, loosing capacity is something I would like to find out myself what is going on, keep in mind what is the largest DDoS attack 2.4Tbit ? even having 3Tbit with enough compute should be good enough theoretically.

I will find about that and let you guys know.

while i do agree that the capacity might not have such a big impact, the fact that path customers can't peer with them over DE-CIX anymore without any warning beforehand seems to be the bigger problem here.

byteangel

@LTGT said:

@byteangel said:

@totally_not_banned said:

@byteangel said:
DDoS as a Service

Yeah, DDoS service is probably about what a distanced professional outside of a scene environment would call it.

the claim is that they didn't pay their bills, where is the proof of that? I am exactly here to understand that part and not to derail the conversation with drama.

Well, they seem to have lost substantial capacity, which seems unlikely to have happened on purpose? You are free to correct me if i'm wrong though.

As for the whole flavor of the situation: By what i've seen in relation to them it seems pretty much self inflicted. You sleep how you bed yourself - meaning if you breed an environment full of meme kids and scene people (as sad as it is to apply this to the modern internet...) the result will look something like this.

@sillycat said:

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

Exactly. Name and shame please. This is LET after all and we just love those juicy details. As is that statement doesn't look overly convincing.

I agree with you, loosing capacity is something I would like to find out myself what is going on, keep in mind what is the largest DDoS attack 2.4Tbit ? even having 3Tbit with enough compute should be good enough theoretically.

I will find about that and let you guys know.

while i do agree that the capacity might not have such a big impact, the fact that path customers can't peer with them over DE-CIX anymore without any warning beforehand seems to be the bigger problem here.

I fully agree with you. However, aren't they using a GRE tunnel to peer with the path? Their traffic could go over another upstream provider without DE-CIX, resulting in higher latency for sure. But I don't understand why there would be an organized mob against their link going down. After all, no ISP or DDoS protection company that I've seen guarantees that your traffic will always go in a certain direction or through an IX. Who am I to know? If their customer is here, they can shed some light on what is in the contract about this clause.

kait

@byteangel dear Marshal, you clearly didn't read the discussion but one provider already said that a GRE tunnel doesn't work for them and that Path lied about why their connection over DE-CIX died.

byteangel

@kait said:
@byteangel dear Marshal, you clearly didn't read the discussion but one provider already said that a GRE tunnel doesn't work for them and that Path lied about why their connection over DE-CIX died.

Honestly, except LTGT who is talking facts, the rest of you are just waste of time with drama I am afraid and don't worth my time. I am also not Marshal but you can think that way if it help you.

kait

@byteangel said: waste of time with drama

Says the guy that brands every Path hater as a DDoS skid, kiwifarms user or a competitor. you're a joke.

LTGT

@byteangel said:

@LTGT said:

@byteangel said:

@totally_not_banned said:

@byteangel said:
DDoS as a Service

Yeah, DDoS service is probably about what a distanced professional outside of a scene environment would call it.

the claim is that they didn't pay their bills, where is the proof of that? I am exactly here to understand that part and not to derail the conversation with drama.

Well, they seem to have lost substantial capacity, which seems unlikely to have happened on purpose? You are free to correct me if i'm wrong though.

As for the whole flavor of the situation: By what i've seen in relation to them it seems pretty much self inflicted. You sleep how you bed yourself - meaning if you breed an environment full of meme kids and scene people (as sad as it is to apply this to the modern internet...) the result will look something like this.

@sillycat said:

@byteangel said: used to or still running stresser/DDoS as a Service/botnet(or whatever you want to call it)

Proof?

Exactly. Name and shame please. This is LET after all and we just love those juicy details. As is that statement doesn't look overly convincing.

I agree with you, loosing capacity is something I would like to find out myself what is going on, keep in mind what is the largest DDoS attack 2.4Tbit ? even having 3Tbit with enough compute should be good enough theoretically.

I will find about that and let you guys know.

while i do agree that the capacity might not have such a big impact, the fact that path customers can't peer with them over DE-CIX anymore without any warning beforehand seems to be the bigger problem here.

I fully agree with you. However, aren't they using a GRE tunnel to peer with the path? Their traffic could go over another upstream provider without DE-CIX, resulting in higher latency for sure. But I don't understand why there would be an organized mob against their link going down. After all, no ISP or DDoS protection company that I've seen guarantees that your traffic will always go in a certain direction or through an IX. Who am I to know? If their customer is here, they can shed some light on what is in the contract about this clause.

going from what unesty and active-servers said, it does not seem to be as easy.

https://server.unesty.net/blog

And the so mentioned "mob" is just a lot of people up fed up with path's bullshit,
I've heard many stories of weird server terminations, downtime issues, the whole drama last time where employees were not paid etc, of course people will be upset. And that's their right.

totally_not_banned

@byteangel said:
But I don't understand why there would be an organized mob against their link going down.

Like i've said that's what they've chosen. If it were realistically possible to start over and keep to a purely professional code of conduct (no Discord, no memes, no questionable convos, ...) thereby erasing the past it would be my recommendation to them but it isn't.

It might help a little to limit their public exposure (while simultaneously cutting out anything that could be seen as questionable) but it would take quite some time to actually make the drama that follows them at least somewhat die down and at this point it's unlikely to ever go away completely and i don't think they'd want to do this anyways as from my impression they kind of strive for the internet clout (as silly as that is for a company).

emgh

@totally_not_banned said:

@byteangel said:
But I don't understand why there would be an organized mob against their link going down.

and i don't think they'd want to do this anyways as from my impression they kind of strive for the internet clout (as silly as that is for a company).

It’s quite funny because just like in real life, the ones wearing super expensive clothes with huge branding etc are from personal experience often the ones who paid with credit (or in this case, not paying at all it looks like.)

I guess everyone comes to the realization at some point that clout don't pay the bills.

totally_not_banned

@emgh said:

@totally_not_banned said:

@byteangel said:
But I don't understand why there would be an organized mob against their link going down.

and i don't think they'd want to do this anyways as from my impression they kind of strive for the internet clout (as silly as that is for a company).

It’s quite funny because just like in real life, the ones wearing super expensive clothes with huge branding etc are from personal experience often the ones who paid with credit (or in this case, not paying at all it looks like.)

Are you actually suggesting that on monday those kids driving around the city in expensive rental cars are still just poor fucks having wasted yet another 200€ of whatever little money they really have?

emgh

@totally_not_banned said:

@emgh said:

@totally_not_banned said:

@byteangel said:
But I don't understand why there would be an organized mob against their link going down.

and i don't think they'd want to do this anyways as from my impression they kind of strive for the internet clout (as silly as that is for a company).

It’s quite funny because just like in real life, the ones wearing super expensive clothes with huge branding etc are from personal experience often the ones who paid with credit (or in this case, not paying at all it looks like.)

Are you actually suggesting that on monday those kids driving around the city in expensive rental cars are still just poor fucks having wasted yet another 200€ of whatever little money they really have?

I’ve heard people leasing sports cars in groups, where they pay together and get the car a certain day of the week, and, to top it off, they don’t have the finances needed to be able to lease it themselves, so, they pay even more money to have someone with good credit lease it for them.

Imagine sharing a sports car with 10 other guys and that’s why you can’t ever do anything😆

LTGT

looks like there were more issues today.

NoNoisyNeighbour

Was there any statement from path until now?

kait

@NoNoisyNeighbour said: Was there any statement from path until now?

Nothing public and lies in private statements to customers.

jmginer

My opinion is that the problem lies in using peering links such as DECIX, to offer or receive IP transit. You are using a shared link without any vlan segmentation.

We have a 10G cross-connect against Path in Madrid and our BGP session has been up for months without any outage.

Regarding support and communication, my only complaint is that they take longer than expected to respond.

On a technical level, rules and filters take longer than we would like to see them applied and propagated since they are created.

Otherwise, we are very happy with the service Path provides.

packetnext

Not true, > @jmginer said:

My opinion is that the problem lies in using peering links such as DECIX, to offer or receive IP transit. You are using a shared link without any vlan segmentation.

We have a 10G cross-connect against Path in Madrid and our BGP session has been up for months without any outage.

Regarding support and communication, my only complaint is that they take longer than expected to respond.

On a technical level, rules and filters take longer than we would like to see them applied and propagated since they are created.

Otherwise, we are very happy with the service Path provides.

You are very happy with a company with this history?

You are very happy with a company who recently lost upstream capacity to various IP transit providers and the most important internet exchanges in the world?

I find it very interesting that the only people who are talking about all this, are on lowendtalk.

That says something about the type of clients Path has I guess. - something with paying peanuts and getting monkeys.

apollo15

price is cheap, much much cheaper that competitors. Thats why everyone is/was using them

you get what you pay for.