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[MXroute] Spring Promo - $15/year - Page 7
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[MXroute] Spring Promo - $15/year

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  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited May 12

    @emg said:

    @jar said:

    Just create a forwarder but not a matching email account. Forwarder + account means store and forward, just a forwarder means just forward.

    I have been doing the same thing for a long time. I create unique forwarders for each company, website, etc. When spam comes, I can guess who leaked the email address.

    -> If you do what I do, consider creating two levels of indirection.

    Individual email forwarders point to a common email forwarder that you do not disclose to anyone. The common forwarder points to a real email account. That way, if the real email account goes away or must be changed, you won't have to change all the regular forwarders, only the one common forwarder.

    Why not use aliases (catchall is fine and least hassle as you have no extra task each unique use)? You'd get same benefits but alias allows you to send out/reply from that alias as needed. Some services only accept emails for tickets when replied from the email the ticket was opened on (fuck you eBay dispute resolution process that ignored all my replies without saying they were being ignored).

    Edit: replied before reading further posts.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited May 12

    @emg said:

    @hades_corps said: Why not just use a catch-all email address? I gave each company an email that does not exist and set non-existent mail forward to sort of "postmaster" email. It wouldn't require individual forwarding.

    That would work. The advantage is that you can create valid, working email addresses on the fly, at a store, at an event, or anywhere, without the need to access your computer or other device.

    Unfortunately, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, in my opinion. You could be effectively locked into receiving all non-existent email addresses at that domain forever, unless you manually create forwarders later and turn the "forward all" feature off.

    In that case, you just create a filter to mark all emails to that nonexistent email to trash/spam. It's very rare.

    You could lose all record of which email addresses you have given out. The situation might become confusing for email address consistency issues. For example, typo'd email addresses would get through anyway. People who work together with you may become confused about which of your email addresses is the "correct one".

    What's confusing? You give your email directly to people you want to contact you. You can do this for personal email, but your work email should be pretty much one email address.

    The worst part of it all is that you would get all the bot-generated and guessed email address spam that is directed at your domain. No thank you!

    Using my domain for 20 years or so, this really isn't a problem. It's very rare, less than 3-4 a year, and that's mostly PayPal!

    All-in-all, I would prefer to continue dropping email for non-existent email addresses, but the idea was creative!

    Nonexistent user bounce messages help confirm valid accounts... it really comes down to typical stupid Spammer or someone who is trying.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited May 12

    @jar said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @jar said:

    @12938450 said:
    Is it me or is the messages menu in directadmin been broken for a while now?

    Could not read tickets Unable to open ./data/users/user/tickets.list for reading. No such file or directory

    This was intentional and the use of that function is not part of the intended user experience. I broke it on that server to fix a bug that generated complaints while the function was never something I intended for users to view in the first place, so win-win.

    As long as DirectAdmin is the front end we use, inconsistencies and cosmetic oddities will be a part of the service. It's more in my interest to look ahead to it's replacement than to spend my time running around patching up all of those things, usually only to have to do it again once I'm done. The number of times their updates break my customizations is just way too high.

    Squelch error with ?

    touch ./data/users/user/tickets.list

    I'd have to make it immutable and that would expand the problem. The data that it populated with was the problem.

    Hmm? The error was that the file didn't exist, it certainly wasn't finding data to have a problem with.

    Pre-populate the data, "no tickets to read".

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Veteran
    edited May 12

    @TimboJones said:

    @jar said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @jar said:

    @12938450 said:
    Is it me or is the messages menu in directadmin been broken for a while now?

    Could not read tickets Unable to open ./data/users/user/tickets.list for reading. No such file or directory

    This was intentional and the use of that function is not part of the intended user experience. I broke it on that server to fix a bug that generated complaints while the function was never something I intended for users to view in the first place, so win-win.

    As long as DirectAdmin is the front end we use, inconsistencies and cosmetic oddities will be a part of the service. It's more in my interest to look ahead to it's replacement than to spend my time running around patching up all of those things, usually only to have to do it again once I'm done. The number of times their updates break my customizations is just way too high.

    Squelch error with ?

    touch ./data/users/user/tickets.list

    I'd have to make it immutable and that would expand the problem. The data that it populated with was the problem.

    Hmm? The error was that the file didn't exist, it certainly wasn't finding data to have a problem with.

    Pre-populate the data, "no tickets to read".

    Perhaps, interesting thought :heart:

    The original problem is that it was exposing LetsEncrypt renewal notifications for all users, for all users to read.

  • @jar said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @jar said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @jar said:

    @12938450 said:
    Is it me or is the messages menu in directadmin been broken for a while now?

    Could not read tickets Unable to open ./data/users/user/tickets.list for reading. No such file or directory

    This was intentional and the use of that function is not part of the intended user experience. I broke it on that server to fix a bug that generated complaints while the function was never something I intended for users to view in the first place, so win-win.

    As long as DirectAdmin is the front end we use, inconsistencies and cosmetic oddities will be a part of the service. It's more in my interest to look ahead to it's replacement than to spend my time running around patching up all of those things, usually only to have to do it again once I'm done. The number of times their updates break my customizations is just way too high.

    Squelch error with ?

    touch ./data/users/user/tickets.list

    I'd have to make it immutable and that would expand the problem. The data that it populated with was the problem.

    Hmm? The error was that the file didn't exist, it certainly wasn't finding data to have a problem with.

    Pre-populate the data, "no tickets to read".

    Perhaps, interesting thought :heart:

    The original problem is that it was exposing LetsEncrypt renewal notifications for all users, for all users to read.

    Redundancy for the win.Never miss a renewal again!

    Thanked by 2jar skorous
  • emgemg Veteran

    Responding to @TimboJones' two posts above.

    I view "alias" and "forwarder" as equivalent. Two email addresses - whatever arrives at the inbound email address goes to the outbound email address. In Plesk it was called "alias", but I have not used Plesk for a few years. In cPanel and DirectAdmin, it is called "forwarder".

    The "confusion" comes from the concept that all email at your domain arrives in your inbox. If someone typos one of your email addresses, nobody will notice because it still arrives. If others "Reply All", people may use that message to record a different email address for you than the one that others are using. Over time, it can cause confusion - people not knowing which email address to use, duplicate messages to multiple email addresses, etc.

    Thanks for the other suggestions. I will look at your comments carefully to see if there is a better, easier approach that accomplishes my goals. Other than the large number of forwarders and associated backup issues, what I have works well today.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited May 13

    @emg said:
    Responding to @TimboJones' two posts above.

    I view "alias" and "forwarder" as equivalent. Two email addresses - whatever arrives at the inbound email address goes to the outbound email address. In Plesk it was called "alias", but I have not used Plesk for a few years. In cPanel and DirectAdmin, it is called "forwarder".

    Umm, pretty sure DA and cpanel explicitly have aliases and forwarders that do different things and not just interchangeable terms. It's not subjective, it's their mail functions... someone else recently talked about forwarders and mail storage options (the forwarded email can store email and use up space or forward and delete so only forwarded email stores a copy). If you want to reply from the forwarded email account, you need to store the email in that mailbox or just not have replying capabilities. The alias will always only be one copy and allow replying from alias email address.

    The "confusion" comes from the concept that all email at your domain arrives in your inbox. If someone typos one of your email addresses, nobody will notice because it still arrives. If others "Reply All", people may use that message to record a different email address for you than the one that others are using. Over time, it can cause confusion - people not knowing which email address to use, duplicate messages to multiple email addresses, etc.

    True. I gave my family members "[email protected]" and have had a few, "not sure which email to use so I sent it to both" and the CC field has my [email protected] and [email protected]. I always get the email, gmail doesn't show it as a duplicate, so it hasn't been a nuisance. Honestly, the biggest confusion comes from family members who used ISP email accounts, switched ISPs over the years and also eventually switched to a provider like gmail.

    Thanks for the other suggestions. I will look at your comments carefully to see if there is a better, easier approach that accomplishes my goals. Other than the large number of forwarders and associated backup issues, what I have works well today.

    If you're happy with the level of effort for your solution, it's not worth changing your SOP. I just like to suggest how to make people more lazy. (Bill Gates and Netflix look for this type of lazy, as they're the right thinking for best solutions)

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Veteran

    Alias and forwarder are logically equivalent on DA and cPanel. In fact both refer to them as forwarders in UI but aliases in config values.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited May 14

    @jar said:
    Alias and forwarder are logically equivalent on DA and cPanel. In fact both refer to them as forwarders in UI but aliases in config values.

    My mistake. I could have thought it was you mentioning the mailbox and storage as being the difference. I must be thinking of something else. So I guess the only difference being alias has to be on domain and forwarding can be outside domain.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • I want to buy a 15-dollar package, but I have been banned from my ip without using vpn. Can you help me deal with it?

  • netsujitnetsujit Member

    Doesn't Directadmin allow admins and resellers to login into as users' accounts? Does MXroute does anything special or any preventive measures to keep a users' emails private and safe from unauthorized access?

    I am not saying @jar or mxroute snoop around their users' emails. Am pretty sure they've got other better and productive things to do with their time. But there's always a possibility in future a disgruntled staff/employee of mxroute misusing directadmin to access users' mailboxes.

    I've been a user of mxroute since few years and it's absolutely amazing for its price point and for the fact that all the outbound emails land in recepient's inbox. But the above directadmin feature has always stopped me from making mxroute as the primary email provider for my domains.

    And for this same reason, I have avoided signing up with any of the other mxroute resellers, even though they come up with cheaper pricing every now and then. Again, am not saying any providers go through their users' emails. But directadmin makes it quite easy for them to do so if they want to.

    Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    @netsujit said: Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    Unless email is stored encrypted, couldn't any email provider look at a customer's emails if they really wanted to (independently of DA)?

    Thanked by 1jar
  • netsujitnetsujit Member
    edited May 19

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said: Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    Unless email is stored encrypted, couldn't any email provider look at a customer's emails if they really wanted to (independently of DA)?

    That's true. I guess they could.

    But knowing how easy it is to do in DA, bothers me a bit more than not having the knowledge of what system other providers use and what access level their staff has.

    I wish I didn't learn about DA reseller accounts. It would have been easier living with 'ignorance is bliss'. :(

  • tomletomle Member, LIR

    @netsujit said:

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said: Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    Unless email is stored encrypted, couldn't any email provider look at a customer's emails if they really wanted to (independently of DA)?

    That's true. I guess they could.

    But knowing how easy it is to do in DA, bothers me a bit more than not having the knowledge of what system other providers use and what access level their staff has.

    I wish I didn't learn about DA reseller accounts. It would have been easier living with 'ignorance is bliss'. :(

    As long as it's stored somewhere (and it has to be, right?) then it doesn't matter what control panel they use.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • angstromangstrom Moderator
    edited May 19

    @netsujit said:

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said: Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    Unless email is stored encrypted, couldn't any email provider look at a customer's emails if they really wanted to (independently of DA)?

    That's true. I guess they could.

    But knowing how easy it is to do in DA, bothers me a bit more than not having the knowledge of what system other providers use and what access level their staff has.

    I wish I didn't learn about DA reseller accounts. It would have been easier living with 'ignorance is bliss'. :(

    You seem to be asking two different but related questions:

    1. Could @jar or a trusted employee of MXroute look at a customer's emails?
    2. Could a reseller of MXroute look at a customer's emails? (A customer of their own)

    I think that the answer to both of these questions is yes, but a yes to question 1 is independent of DA, whereas a yes to question 2 is probably dependent on DA, given that DA is how a reseller interacts with MXroute (as far as I'm aware)

    But I think that the answer to question 2 would be yes even if cPanel were used

    In any case, as I tried to say above, any email provider could look at a customer's (unencrypted) emails if they really wanted to

    Thanked by 2jar netsujit
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Veteran

    @netsujit said:
    Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    You are, but you have to extend this net over every company you'll ever do business with. Your eyes have been opened, you just haven't realized the scope. Ask the same of the CEO of Dropbox, Google, all of them.

    Every company you do business with involves trust. Even when they say they've eliminated trust, you still have to trust that they're not lying. I'm not going to entertain any idea that I'm uniquely positioned to require any larger amount of trust than Linode, DigitalOcean, BuyVM, Amazon, or anyone else. You either trust me or you don't, I likely can't change that.

  • netsujitnetsujit Member

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said:

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said: Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    Unless email is stored encrypted, couldn't any email provider look at a customer's emails if they really wanted to (independently of DA)?

    That's true. I guess they could.

    But knowing how easy it is to do in DA, bothers me a bit more than not having the knowledge of what system other providers use and what access level their staff has.

    I wish I didn't learn about DA reseller accounts. It would have been easier living with 'ignorance is bliss'. :(

    But I think that the answer to question 2 would be yes even if cPanel were used

    In any case, as I tried to say above, any email provider could look at a customer's (unencrypted) emails if they really wanted to

    True. cPanel, Plesk, virtualmin, in fact all the major panel have this feature and it won't make any difference unless emails are stored encrypted.

    @jar said:

    @netsujit said:
    Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    You are, but you have to extend this net over every company you'll ever do business with. Your eyes have been opened, you just haven't realized the scope. Ask the same of the CEO of Dropbox, Google, all of them.

    Every company you do business with involves trust. Even when they say they've eliminated trust, you still have to trust that they're not lying. I'm not going to entertain any idea that I'm uniquely positioned to require any larger amount of trust than Linode, DigitalOcean, BuyVM, Amazon, or anyone else. You either trust me or you don't, I likely can't change that.

    Agreed. You have to put some level of trust in people/companies whose services you are using. Hence the reason I prefer to have the email service directly with mxroute rather than going through a cheaper reseller.

  • @netsujit said:

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said:

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said: Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    Unless email is stored encrypted, couldn't any email provider look at a customer's emails if they really wanted to (independently of DA)?

    That's true. I guess they could.

    But knowing how easy it is to do in DA, bothers me a bit more than not having the knowledge of what system other providers use and what access level their staff has.

    I wish I didn't learn about DA reseller accounts. It would have been easier living with 'ignorance is bliss'. :(

    But I think that the answer to question 2 would be yes even if cPanel were used

    In any case, as I tried to say above, any email provider could look at a customer's (unencrypted) emails if they really wanted to

    True. cPanel, Plesk, virtualmin, in fact all the major panel have this feature and it won't make any difference unless emails are stored encrypted.

    It might be better if they disabled One-Click login to webmail https://www.directadmin.com/features.php?id=2470

  • SirFoxySirFoxy Member
    edited May 19

    Jarland and I are cooking up something special for LowEndBox 👀👀👀

    Thanked by 2netsujit jar
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Veteran

    @netsujit said: Hence the reason I prefer to have the email service directly with mxroute rather than going through a cheaper reseller.

    Don't count all of them out. Take a look at @MichaelCee's OnePoundEmail. This is a reputable guy with a history here, great person in general. You just have to pick people you trust.

    The real reason I would ask for your trust comes from these two points:

    1. My kids mean more to me than you do. That's not an attack at you, it's why I'm not going to allow you to threaten their wellbeing. How that's related goes to #2:

    2. While the Trump administration did severely harm safe harbor, it isn't dead. Unless I suspect you of trafficking in underage humans for primarily sexual purposes, it's in my best interest to not know anything about what you do. Else, if you were caught and anyone found out that I could have known about it, I could be liable. I don't want to know any more about what you do than I need to know to keep my job. I don't even want to hire enough others that I couldn't reasonably watch all that they do, and you'll figure out why when you read what @SirFoxy referenced above.

    @jcolideles said:

    @netsujit said:

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said:

    @angstrom said:

    @netsujit said: Am I justified to think this way or am I overthinking this?

    Unless email is stored encrypted, couldn't any email provider look at a customer's emails if they really wanted to (independently of DA)?

    That's true. I guess they could.

    But knowing how easy it is to do in DA, bothers me a bit more than not having the knowledge of what system other providers use and what access level their staff has.

    I wish I didn't learn about DA reseller accounts. It would have been easier living with 'ignorance is bliss'. :(

    But I think that the answer to question 2 would be yes even if cPanel were used

    In any case, as I tried to say above, any email provider could look at a customer's (unencrypted) emails if they really wanted to

    True. cPanel, Plesk, virtualmin, in fact all the major panel have this feature and it won't make any difference unless emails are stored encrypted.

    It might be better if they disabled One-Click login to webmail https://www.directadmin.com/features.php?id=2470

    True, though it's one of those things that would look good in a forum post but in practice would only generate user complaints. It'll probably disappear at some point in the future anyway, as will the entire DA interface, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

  • netsujitnetsujit Member
    edited May 19

    @jar said:

    @netsujit said: Hence the reason I prefer to have the email service directly with mxroute rather than going through a cheaper reseller.

    Don't count all of them out. Take a look at @MichaelCee's OnePoundEmail. This is a reputable guy with a history here, great person in general. You just have to pick people you trust.

    The real reason I would ask for your trust comes from these two points:

    1. My kids mean more to me than you do. That's not an attack at you, it's why I'm not going to allow you to threaten their wellbeing. How that's related goes to #2:

    2. While the Trump administration did severely harm safe harbor, it isn't dead. Unless I suspect you of trafficking in underage humans for primarily sexual purposes, it's in my best interest to not know anything about what you do. Else, if you were caught and anyone found out that I could have known about it, I could be liable. I don't want to know any more about what you do than I need to know to keep my job. I don't even want to hire enough others that I couldn't reasonably watch all that they do, and you'll figure out why when you read what @SirFoxy referenced above.

    Fair and valid points.

    I can't even imagine the headaches a provider would have to go through if any weird people, like what you mentioned in your 2nd point, ends up as a user on their server.

    I'll keep an eye out for @SirFoxy and your's new recipe. Will read it as soon as it's out.

    Thanks for answering my queries, and for maintaining and improving mxroute all through these years. :)

    Thanked by 1jar
  • b3tab3ta Member

    I've been looking for a proper mail hosting service for my wife and my accounts and want to go for this deal, but I've not been able to find information about my single outstanding question in this thread or at https://mxroutedocs.com/:

    I have a list of forwarders I need to load. Is there an API of some kind or can I import the list via CSV?

    This allows me to set up a forwarder for each business with which I communicate, then if that address starts getting spam, I know who to speak to. As a result I have way too many for it to make sense to add them in a GUI. Once I've transferred to mxroute then adding additional ones via a GUI won't be a problem; it's just the initial lot.

  • lifetime $10 make sense :D

  • Too bad I'm too late for the promo. Does anyone know when next promo is?

    Thanked by 1jar
  • HotmarerHotmarer Member
    edited May 31

    @sjoerdbooij said:
    Too bad I'm too late for the promo. Does anyone know when next promo is?

    When @jar gets drunk.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • @Hotmarer said:

    @sjoerdbooij said:
    Too bad I'm too late for the promo. Does anyone know when next promo is?

    When @jar gets drunk.

    @jar, can I buy you a beer? 😉

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Veteran

    @sjoerdbooij said:
    Too bad I'm too late for the promo. Does anyone know when next promo is?

    Watch lowendbox.com

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited June 1

    @b3ta said:
    I've been looking for a proper mail hosting service for my wife and my accounts and want to go for this deal, but I've not been able to find information about my single outstanding question in this thread or at https://mxroutedocs.com/:

    I have a list of forwarders I need to load. Is there an API of some kind or can I import the list via CSV?

    This allows me to set up a forwarder for each business with which I communicate, then if that address starts getting spam, I know who to speak to. As a result I have way too many for it to make sense to add them in a GUI. Once I've transferred to mxroute then adding additional ones via a GUI won't be a problem; it's just the initial lot.

    There's an API (DirectAdmin API documentation is pretty good) and the web GUI does have features to import various stuff in bulk, but not sure about forwarders.

    Tip: Adding email gets an error code 0/1 response but forwarders give some html response but does work. Verify your script command worked in the GUI and you're off to the races.

    Protip: use a catchall instead, only need to make a rule to block spam and create mailbox if you need to sendas.

  • emgemg Veteran

    I know that others can see my unencrypted email as it transits from one mail server to another on its way to my inbox. There is nothing I can do about it; it is the nature of email. I still have my PGP key, but hardly receive any encrypted email these days, including email from people who should know better.

    I do not store my email on the server and never have. I still use POP3, download my email to the local client application on my laptop, and then delete it immediately from the server. I maintain my own backups of that locally stored email.

    Although I rarely need it, I can search my email easily back to the 1980s. It can be incredibly useful when I need it.

    The cost is convenience. I check email from one device, my personal computer. That works just fine for me. Unless I am away from home, the cellphone is not usually nearby anyway.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • netomxnetomx Moderator, Veteran

    Did I came months later? </3

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