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GSuite Free Legacy Alternatives?

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  • NyrNyr Community Contributor, Veteran

    @fLoo said: I have no clue why all of you guys are hesitating to setup a small mailserver yourself. Its not rocket science. Runs on 512 mb vps with 1 core.

    It is not that simple. I consider myself a competent system administrator and have some papers saying that I am proficient at that. I have also managed mail servers for many years.

    Some considerations:

    • Which hosting provider would you choose? Even in very clean networks, a single IP address is not going to have excellent reputation for every email destination over time. You need time, knowledge and resources to deal with this.
    • What is going to be your sending volume? Because if this is a personal server, some recipients will mark as spam legitimate email coming from low volume IP addresses or domains. Others will silently reject email if you exceed an arbitrary volume threshold over time.
    • I hope you do not have enemies, because if you can potentially have one, DDoS protection is a requirement for an important service like email. This severely limits your choice of providers and increases the required budget.
    • With 512MB of RAM, there is no way to reliably run the entire stack including ClamAV. Maybe you do not want virus scanning, but I'd suggest to reconsider.
    • Are you fine with waiting 24 hours for an email to be delivered if your server goes down for 10 minutes? If not, you also need to buy and correctly configure a backup MX in a second server.
    • I hope you have no problem with someone being able to enumerate all of your domains/customers/projects, because else you are going to need more than one IP address.
    • Do you want to backup the mailboxes? Add a second server or external service. Additional setup/maintenance is also required to ensue that backups are working correctly.
    • Are you ALWAYS available on call? If email is mission critical for you or your business, you need to get online fast when the server is down, when your IP is blacklisted (also need to monitor that), or worse: when an 0day within any part of the complex stack you manage is being exploited in the wild.

    Those are just some general challenges which need to be addressed, but there are other issues like mediocre or expensive client integrations in many different platforms, addressing contact storage and synchronization, and just the big learning curve to master email server administration.

  • mailcheap.co

  • @mart said:

    When you subscribe to iCloud+, you can use up to five custom domains to send and receive email with iCloud Mail. Learn how to get started.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212514

    Checkout iCloud+

    Wow that's great, had never even considered Apple. It appears that I could set up all my domains and get all the addresses with calendaring for as little as $12/year for 50GB. Does anybody here have experience using iCloud+ for an email server?

    Did some research on icloud+ option. Apparently you must use apple ecosystem for this option, limited to 3 addresses per domain as another use pointed out. There are no IMAP/POP3 options available. Cannot find much information DKIM, DMARC and SPF services for icloud.

  • For those who are looking for clean ip, check out eth-services.de

    I've seen mailcow users recommend it.

  • typicalGtaTGtypicalGtaTG Member, Host Rep

    @cpsd said:

    @typicalGtaTG said:
    Not sure if I'm missing something here but how expensive is it for the Google Workspace Starter? I have 2 accounts with them on 2 domains and it only costs me ~$2/user/month and comes with 30GB Storage for each user.

    It's been the best solution I've been able to find so far after been hopping providers from my mailing for so many years.

    4,68 € per user/month here :(.

    Ah wow, Yeah I see how people might not wanna pay for it.

    Honestly tho, When I was trying out other options, Nothing truely worked for me. cPanel/DA/Cyberpanel/CWP were decent but never seamed to properly work, I tried other email clients even using a very clean subnet (yes I took out the whole subnet {/29,/26 even /24 once}) and they all either failed me, required me to spend much time on maintaining them or just the costs weren't practical.

    I don't think I'm being unreasonable when I say that there's nothing that beats the big players, for when it comes to costs, support and the actual mail reputation. If you're tightly integrated with their services then it might just be worth it. I've seen google price their service according to the country economy but I can't confirm that. The service is very good tbh even for a personal user like me.

    The best thing I do like about google is the support, They simply help you regardless. They helped me move everything from my free gmail account to the workspace account and helped me with a lot of the stuff while I was still making the transition (even did some things for me). They also tend to inform about everything from price changes to contract changes..etc.

    Not trying to be a fanboy here but honestly something from the big players is the best anyone here will find.

  • Wow that's great, had never even considered Apple. It appears that I could set up all my domains and get all the addresses with calendaring for as little as $12/year for 50GB. Does anybody here have experience using iCloud+ for an email server?

    Did some research on icloud+ option. Apparently you must use apple ecosystem for this option, limited to 3 addresses per domain as another use pointed out. There are no IMAP/POP3 options available. Cannot find much information DKIM, DMARC and SPF services for icloud.

    Look this video:

  • nfnnfn Veteran
    edited January 2022

    For email only, Cloudflare Email Routing + Gmail + SES is an excellent choice.

    I'm using this combo for multiple domains (I'm the only user).

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • @nfn said:
    For email only, Cloudflare Email Routing + Gmail + SES is an excellent choice.

    I'm using this combo for multiple domains (I'm the only user).

    What is SES? :)

  • nfnnfn Veteran
    edited January 2022

    Amazon Simple Email: https://aws.amazon.com/ses/

    I use SES for outgoing email thru Gmail.

    Edit:

    Cloudflare incoming routes to Gmail.
    Gmail is used as an Email Client.
    SES for Outgoing

    Thanked by 1o_be_one
  • @nfn said:
    Amazon Simple Email: https://aws.amazon.com/ses/

    I use SES for outgoing email thru Gmail.

    Edit:

    Cloudflare incoming routes to Gmail.
    Gmail is used as an Email Client.
    SES for Outgoing

    But can you use your own domain to send mail trough gmail?

  • msg7086msg7086 Member
    edited January 2022

    @surihost said:

    @nfn said:
    Amazon Simple Email: https://aws.amazon.com/ses/

    I use SES for outgoing email thru Gmail.

    Edit:

    Cloudflare incoming routes to Gmail.
    Gmail is used as an Email Client.
    SES for Outgoing

    But can you use your own domain to send mail trough gmail?

    No. SES for Outgoing. (Or use any other email sending service.)

  • nfnnfn Veteran

    @surihost said:
    But can you use your own domain to send mail trough gmail?

    https://support.google.com/mail/answer/22370?hl=en

    You need to use SES (or other relay service you like) for that. Following the settings above, you configure your email and add SES SMTP server, user and pass.

    After that, check "Reply from the same address the message was sent from" in "Accounts and Import" settings and you're done.

    Thanked by 1surihost
  • NyrNyr Community Contributor, Veteran

    Why people keep suggesting SES or other transactional email services as comparable alternatives?

    Personal email is not an allowed use case for Amazon SES as far as I know, and transactional email services generally have worse deliverability.

    It can work, but it is not the right tool for the job and the service provider has not even considered/allowed this use case.

    Thanked by 1arda
  • 2 more interesting alternatives:

    • seznam.cz: Czech based. Unlimited space. Supports iCal. Czech only interface but we are only using IMAP right?
    • Lacksuite: Bytedance product focusing on business users. Server based in US on AWS. Do require you do download Lack application to generate IMAP password but not needed afterwards.

    Other alternatives discussed:

    • Yandex: Free version do exist.
    • VK Mail(mail.ru)
    • ImprovMX/any Email redirector + SES/any SMTP serviced + Gmail/Outlook
    • Self hosting
    • Zoho
  • mwtmwt Member
    edited January 2022

    @cnbeining said:

    • Lacksuite: Bytedance product focusing on business users. Server based in US on AWS. Do require you do download Lack application to generate IMAP password but not needed afterwards.

    What is the url for this? I cannot find it in a Google search and a search for "bytedance mail" demonstrates that Bytedance uses Google Workspace for their own emails.

    I use Fastmail. It's an excellent service. I highly recommend it. You get essentially unlimited domains and emails. It supports wildcards and you can create quick mailing lists.

  • @mwt said:

    @cnbeining said:

    • Lacksuite: Bytedance product focusing on business users. Server based in US on AWS. Do require you do download Lack application to generate IMAP password but not needed afterwards.

    What is the url for this? I cannot find it in a Google search and a search for "bytedance mail" demonstrates that Bytedance uses Google Workspace for their own emails.

    https://www.larksuite.com/pricing

    It is said that Lark's Email(NOTE: NOT Feishu, the original Chinese version) is a wrapper of AWS SES which means that sending and receiving can be a couple seconds slower than other providers which kinds of confirming the rumour by itself.

  • nfnnfn Veteran

    @Nyr said:
    Why people keep suggesting SES or other transactional email services as comparable alternatives?

    People are not suggesting nothing, people use SES for my use case 😉.

    User should choose whatever they want.

  • @dosai said:
    For those who are looking for clean ip, check out eth-services.de

    I've seen mailcow users recommend it.

    Damn expensive compared to something like mxroute or fastmail or mailbox.org

  • NyrNyr Community Contributor, Veteran
    edited January 2022

    @nfn said: People are not suggesting nothing, people use SES for my use case 😉.

    User should choose whatever they want.

    The problem is, Amazon does not allow this use case. To get your SES account out of the sandbox, Amazon will ask you questions which you can not answer truthfully if the plan is to use the service for personal email. Amazon offers a different service for that, more expensive.

    If you are a low volume sender, I understand that it is possible to fly under the radar, but the risk of getting your service suspended for misuse will always be there. Also, deliverability will likely be less than stellar.

  • inbox.eu? from what I know they have very low price for mailbox. ($3/y for 100G iirc)

    Thanked by 1kkrajk
  • @frakass said: inbox.eu? from what I know they have very low price for mailbox. ($3/y for 100G iirc)

    any idea on the deliverablitity and spam filtering?

  • @mart said: Did some research on icloud+ option. Apparently you must use apple ecosystem for this option.

    To me it seems like this isn't required unless I am looking something wrong?

    Windows PC
    Open iCloud for Windows.
    Click Storage.
    Select Backup from the items listed.
    Select one of the device backups, then click Delete. If you want to turn off Backup and remove all backups for that device from iCloud, choose Delete when you're asked to confirm.

    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204247

  • Anyone fund catch-all option on the Lark Suite?

  • @evnix said:

    @frakass said: inbox.eu? from what I know they have very low price for mailbox. ($3/y for 100G iirc)

    any idea on the deliverablitity and spam filtering?

    they are very classic provider in local market. I am guessing they are doing the right job.

  • https://support.google.com/a/answer/60217?hl=en

    Something good for those who wants to keep users, Playstore purchases and youtube data. It will keep working.

  • @TheKiller said:

    https://support.google.com/a/answer/60217?hl=en

    Something good for those who wants to keep users, Playstore purchases and youtube data. It will keep working.

    Do you happen to know what will happen to our emails?? Do we still need to find an alternative for them?

  • @iNanja said:

    @TheKiller said:

    https://support.google.com/a/answer/60217?hl=en

    Something good for those who wants to keep users, Playstore purchases and youtube data. It will keep working.

    Do you happen to know what will happen to our emails?? Do we still need to find an alternative for them?

    judging from prev/preceding posts and replies, gmail and alike will disappear but youtube will remain. my understanding on this is that, gmail is a cost for alpha, but ytb is a source of profit, collecting user data for alpha. ytb normally doesn't produce or require additional storage and maintenance costs.

    I currently have not received any notice or announcement frm alpha/google. that's a bit weird.

  • iNanjaiNanja Member
    edited January 2022

    @aRNoLD said:
    judging from prev/preceding posts and replies, gmail and alike will disappear but youtube will remain. my understanding on this is that, gmail is a cost for alpha, but ytb is a source of profit, collecting user data for alpha. ytb normally doesn't produce or require additional storage and maintenance costs.

    I currently have not received any notice or announcement frm alpha/google. that's a bit weird.

    I haven't received any notification from them either. I asked the google domains department what will happen to my domains and email since I can't afford to upgrade. I don't really understand their response.

    I think they mean it is free email service connected to my domain so I don't have to upgrade my subscription? I am guessing they are saying if I keep renewing my domain in google domains I can keep using it for email? My domains I use for the account is same as my legacy account.

    They said

    "Thank you for contacting the Google Domains Support Team.

    Your G Suite legacy emails (now known as Google Workspace) ,is a free email service connected to your domain. You don't have to upgrade your subscription because you will lose your free service. I understand you are under financial stress right now. Your domain goes under an annual lifecycle and needs to be renewed. If you fail to renew the domains, they will be deleted and your emails will stop working."

    Maybe someone can translate it better for me?

    Thanked by 1kkrajk
  • skorupionskorupion Member, Host Rep

    @iNanja said:

    @aRNoLD said:
    judging from prev/preceding posts and replies, gmail and alike will disappear but youtube will remain. my understanding on this is that, gmail is a cost for alpha, but ytb is a source of profit, collecting user data for alpha. ytb normally doesn't produce or require additional storage and maintenance costs.

    I currently have not received any notice or announcement frm alpha/google. that's a bit weird.

    I haven't received any notification from them either. I asked the google domains department what will happen to my domains and email since I can't afford to upgrade. I don't really understand their response.

    I think they mean it is free email service connected to my domain so I don't have to upgrade my subscription? I am guessing they are saying if I keep renewing my domain in google domains I can keep using it for email? My domains I use for the account is same as my legacy account.

    They said

    "Thank you for contacting the Google Domains Support Team.

    Your G Suite legacy emails (now known as Google Workspace) ,is a free email service connected to your domain. You don't have to upgrade your subscription because you will lose your free service. I understand you are under financial stress right now. Your domain goes under an annual lifecycle and needs to be renewed. If you fail to renew the domains, they will be deleted and your emails will stop working."

    Maybe someone can translate it better for me?

    Contact google support, not google domains support. They are discussing the like 10 bucks per year domain that is used.

  • kendidkendid Veteran
    edited January 2022

    What I'm thinking of doing - appreciate feedback. I have it setup already and is working great - just not sure if this is the best way! Seems to let me use my domain with gmail

    1. Setup mx records to Mxroute @jar
    2. Setup DKIM, DMARC, and SPF records
    3. Setup Letsencrypt for mail.domain.com (really easy on mxroute!)
    4. Setup Mxroute Forwarder for email address to regular gmail account
    5. In my regular gmail account, under settings. Setup mail.domain.com as my SMTP server with SSL encryption (which would be through mxroute) and set as default

    Reason for doing it this way? I really like gmail's web interface and integration in my android phone. Plus I won't need to retrain family members and wife acceptance factor should be ok.

    It seems to work great, and when sending mail I don't get the "sent on behalf of" message. So my phone is only connected to Gmail, but I'm using mxroute for all the backend mail handling.

    Curious for feedback from people with a strong background in this stuff. Is this practical, viable?

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