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★ VirMach ★ Fashionably Late Black Friday & Cyber Week 2020 ★ Flash Deals ★ View inside ★ $7/Yr 512M - Page 22
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★ VirMach ★ Fashionably Late Black Friday & Cyber Week 2020 ★ Flash Deals ★ View inside ★ $7/Yr 512M

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Comments

  • JordJord Moderator, Host Rep

    @DianTama said:
    if you really want to move out,
    why don't you try blesta or @Jord billingserv maybe?

    @VirMach said:

    @DianTama said:

    @VirMach said:
    WHMCS replied and pretty much confirmed that the new query they do on newer versions pretty much take a second each, with a single person doing it, just to authorize/confirm a single user (to run the query I mentioned above.)

    They stated however that it's not the query itself that's bad, but it becomes difficult once there is more than one person doing it...

    They suggested we just throw more power at it instead of fixing their code, "and optimization can only do so much to make the software itself as efficient as possible." They completely ignored the fact that we ran fine on a much smaller server before these queries were being done. Whatever, we're bringing back the panel out of maintenance mode and not continuing with the sale for the time being. In about 8 hours we will need to place it back in maintenance mode and we'll try to do some type of clustering and hopefully, if all goes well, resume the sale at 6 PM.

    If any developers are interested in working on an alternative to WHMCS for us please private message me, we can probably at the very least help fund your project if it fits our needs (because it seems like we need to go from a server that costs $50/mo to us, before any markups, to servers costing $1,000/mo just to run this terrible software from just one version update.)

    Edit: I noticed here on the very helpful article they linked, they did their high availability using AWS so to do a similar setup, it would cost about $10,000 a month to run their billing software for a company our size.

    if you really want to move out,
    why don't you try blesta or @Jord billingserv maybe?

    At this point, it'd have to be something open source. We've had our fair share of everything breaking from a license not working in the past as well.

    Thanks for the mention @DianTama :heart:

    @VirMach while we aren't open source, we are happy to work with you to customise our system to suit your needs.

    Thanked by 1DianTama
  • @VirMach said:

    @ben47955 said:

    @randomq said:
    @VirMach Just write a tiny little flash sale app on a separate server that can be pre-stocked with single use promo codes and aggressively defended against bots. Could even have a delay between when they win and when the code is mailed to them to spread out the load, if still an issue.

    And now you will have coupon code reselling and more drama. You will need a way to fight that. Not sure what is possible with WHMCS thought.

    About 99% of all the ideas we ever have been chucked out because "oh right then someone could ruin the fun by doing this, this. and this."

    Sure, but the fun is already ruined, so it's worth considering. :)

    @ben47955 Hard to worry about single-use coupon code reselling when you already have the server swamped with bots and WHMCS overselling shared-use coupons.

    On this separate server, add a "proof of work" that slows down entries, or a "proof of stake" like a deposit. Also could have a "proof of identity" like links to LET/social/payment/SMS accounts. I'm sure @FAT32 could code it!

    Thanked by 2lowendboi FAT32
  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate
    edited December 2020

    @randomq said:
    On this separate server, add a "proof of work" that slows down entries, or a "proof of stake" like a deposit. Also could have a "proof of identity" like links to LET/social/payment/SMS accounts. I'm sure @FAT32 could code it!

    Proof of push-ups.

    push-ups GIF

  • @Daniel15 said:

    @saibal said: However, given how widely WHMCS is used in the industry, it's quite surprising that this issue hasn't come up before.

    I don't think it's a common scenario to have thousands of customers furiously refreshing WHMCS at the same time.

    Even very poorly written software with totally unoptimized queries can appear to work fine if there's a very low level of concurrency (low QPS).

    Probably the best approach is to have a system completely outside of WHMCS that handles the flash sales, ideally in a programming language with thread-safe/concurrent collections to avoid race conditions. When a customer buys one, record it into a queue somewhere, and have some other process that syncs the queue with WHMCS.

    Of course, that requires a bit of dev work.

    Agreed. Eventually, the performance of the most optimized app is still bounded by the hardware it's running on. I think VirMach mentioned in one of the threads that WHMCS asked them to throw more hardware power and run the WHMCS existing codebase.

    I guess the only options are to scale out their WHMCS installation or entirely decouple WHMCS and the order page as you mentioned.

  • moni099878moni099878 Member
    edited December 2020

    @VirMach said:

    @moni099878 said:

    @VirMach said: So you already have an invoice that got canceled? If so, do not make a new ticket but reply to the already-generated ticket. If there's not one already generated then it's not possible.

    Invoice has been generated and approved but is now cancelled(There is an automatically generated ticket).

    Sure, then reply to that ticket.

    I followed the comment but got this reply "No, we cannot in this case" in ticket #916827. Please can you check it?

  • Daniel15Daniel15 Veteran
    edited December 2020

    @saibal said: WHMCS asked them to throw more hardware power and run the WHMCS existing codebase.

    Ah yes, the "we don't want to do major dev work to improve the efficiency of the software, but we still want to retain the customer and continue selling it as-is, so try to convince them it's a hardware issue and get them to throw more hardware at it" approach. A lot of 'enterprise'-ish systems take the same approach.

    It kinda works to a certain extent, but the thing is that at some point the cost of building something in-house (or even hiring a freelancer to write and maintain a new system) without any of the flaws will end up cheaper than the cost of throwing more and more hardware at an inefficient piece of software, plus you'd actually understand how it's working.

    The other approach is to throw it into "the cloud" using some system that auto-scales based on demand, just for the peak periods (so eg have one server during regular times, but auto-scale to dozens of servers during heavy periods, scaling back down as load decreases). I don't know how well WHMCS would handle this type of auto-scaling though. A previous employer did something like that in Microsoft Azure, but I think they had to write their app in a way that took advantage of it specifically.

    Thanked by 1saibal
  • @yoursunny said:

    @randomq said:
    On this separate server, add a "proof of work" that slows down entries, or a "proof of stake" like a deposit. Also could have a "proof of identity" like links to LET/social/payment/SMS accounts. I'm sure @FAT32 could code it!

    Proof of push-ups.

    push-ups GIF

    Actually that's not a bad idea, could just require an upper body photo with the special/timestamp written on the skin. :)

  • Maybe if they resolve the bot issue- their server would work better. Maybe if they had a stronger infra, their syhstem would work. It seriously isnt all on WHMCS- virmach has had 2 high volume years of black friday sales. Its obvious they are short on staff (based on earlier issues) and short on engineering and have no desire to pay hard money for someone like deluxe/cc to bail them out. And seriously why not just use a stripe billing page and collect the money- then pull the data into whmcs?

  • Good,client area back to life.
    except the aggressive CF rules :)

  • @Unbelievable said: virmach has had 2 high volume years of black friday sales.

    So you're going to completely ignore the whole "this is a new version of the software" thing because you're mad at Virmach, eh?

  • @Unbelievable said: virmach has had 2 high volume years of black friday sales.

    They've already mentioned earlier in the thread that newer versions of WHMCS have a customer database query that is significantly less efficient than in older versions, which is (at least partly) why things are not working as well this year.

  • DebouncerDebouncer Member, Host Rep

    @VirMach,

    The query itself isn't too bad. PMed you an idea how to improve it.

    @VirMach said: They stated however that it's not the query itself that's bad, but it becomes difficult once there is more than one person doing it...

  • @char_dure said:
    Good,client area back to life.
    except the aggressive CF rules :)

    ... and taken down again :tongue:

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @randomq said:

    @yoursunny said:

    @randomq said:
    On this separate server, add a "proof of work" that slows down entries, or a "proof of stake" like a deposit. Also could have a "proof of identity" like links to LET/social/payment/SMS accounts. I'm sure @FAT32 could code it!

    Proof of push-ups.

    push-ups GIF

    Actually that's not a bad idea, could just require an upper body photo with the special/timestamp written on the skin. :)

    Who's getting a Virmach (temporary) tattoo?

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    We're moving to a 48 core server with faster NVMe's and double the memory for more caching and such. If this still doesn't work, then we'll do some kind of HA setup with the two servers (or more.)

  • brueggusbrueggus Member, IPv6 Advocate

    @VirMach said:
    We're moving to a 48 core server with faster NVMe's and double the memory for more caching and such. If this still doesn't work, then we'll do some kind of HA setup with the two servers (or more.)

    Thanked by 2FrankZ TimboJones
  • Thanked by 2WSCallum FrankZ
  • @VirMach said:
    We're moving to a 48 core server with faster NVMe's and double the memory for more caching and such. If this still doesn't work, then we'll do some kind of HA setup with the two servers (or more.)

    next EPYC 7002 o:)

  • @Daniel15 said: .. get them to throw more hardware at it" approach. A lot of 'enterprise'-ish systems take the same approach.

    This is the modern-day lazy ass approach to "apps", rather than proper efficient programming. We're seeing this increasingly in Linux, though still not at the Windoze stage. Having been battling with a client's crap Adobe owned Magento, I do wish Windoze so-called developers would keep to their own turf and not migrate bloat!
    As for composer; gimme a break.
    I was never a fan (nor programmer) of COBOL but at least it could run sizeable databases without the baggage of modern software. KISS approach. How about nginx fronting a maria innodb backend? With no gimmicks and just fine tuning.
    The computing power mentioned here, to run just a billing system with a sales frontend, is just ludicrous.
    All IMHumbleO. ;)

    Thanked by 1FrankZ
  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    @AlwaysSkint said:

    @Daniel15 said: .. get them to throw more hardware at it" approach. A lot of 'enterprise'-ish systems take the same approach.

    This is the modern-day lazy ass approach to "apps", rather than proper efficient programming. We're seeing this increasingly in Linux, though still not at the Windoze stage. Having been battling with a client's crap Adobe owned Magento, I do wish Windoze so-called developers would keep to their own turf and not migrate bloat!
    As for composer; gimme a break.
    I was never a fan (nor programmer) of COBOL but at least it could run sizeable databases without the baggage of modern software. KISS approach. How about nginx fronting a maria innodb backend? With no gimmicks and just fine tuning.
    The computing power mentioned here, to run just a billing system with a sales frontend, is just ludicrous.
    All IMHumbleO. ;)

    The funniest part is that WHMCS initially criticized us for having a MySQL setting "too high" and told us to run MySQLTuner, and MySQLTuner perpetually just tells us to increase it for the site to run smoothly, or it recommends otherwise essentially fixing the coding.

    Anyway, let's do a quick test run and see if this one holds up.

  • Are Ubuntu 18.04 or 20.04 images available? Only see Ubuntu 16.04 minimal on the reinstall list.

  • @VirMach said: Anyway, let's do a quick test run and see if this one holds up.

    Give me 3 minutes to pay older invoice please :D

  • I paid, thanks for waiting, release the Kraken.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    @CyberneticTitan said: Are Ubuntu 18.04 or 20.04 images available? Only see Ubuntu 16.04 minimal on the reinstall list.

    ISO is available for higher versions. We've been having some trouble getting SolusVM password reset and such working on our images otherwise, hence the delay.

    Thanked by 1CyberneticTitan
  • AlwaysSkintAlwaysSkint Member
    edited December 2020

    @VirMach said: MySQLTuner perpetually just tells us to increase it for the site to run smoothly

    Certain aspects of the reports, I take with a pinch of salt: it's only there for guidance, afterall. I do find it an exceptionally useful tool but you should also use tuning-primer.sh, and glean the best from both. I'm not a db programmer but have been supporting relational databases for quite some time.
    Example: the recommendation to set query cache to zero - I guess it depends on what other caching mechanism(s) that you have in place.
    Oh, and what's one the most frequent thing recommended, once you have the 'essentials' tweaked? Use indexing properly, to reduce the size of the join buffer. Sound familiar?

    Thanked by 1Daniel15
  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    Please note, for the sale and future re-installs: Windows may not come with licensing.

    I'll add another disclaimer.

    Thanked by 1ddhhz
  • @CyberneticTitan said:
    Are Ubuntu 18.04 or 20.04 images available? Only see Ubuntu 16.04 minimal on the reinstall list.

    but this is to 'mount CDRom' so you will need to click few things manually (next, next, next, login, password, timezone, next, install mostly :D)

    Thanked by 1CyberneticTitan
  • @VirMach said: Windows may not come with licensing.

    May ? So in which condition license will be included ?

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider
    edited December 2020

    Next deal is going to be pretty good. I divided the price by half over half on purpose, to see if the server still holds up. Do your worst (and before anyone gets upset if it doesn't hold up it's best we try to make sure it stays stable throughout the night right now.)

    Thanked by 3char_dure ddhhz tuc
  • Dear @VirMach is there any way to 'hide' my services that are long gone for years, yet I am always greeted with them on the Service Tab? No, I don't want to sort by Status every damn time I visting billing. Just hide those older fuckers or move to the end?

    https://i.imgur.com/TKagsTN.png

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