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Incero & SpeedyKVM throws the ban hammer at ALL LET members.
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however I mostly get abuse from western europe host such as hertzner or ovh mostly , so logic is flawed
Don't do it boys and girls. Picture
@WSS
wanking to yo pictures.
*shutter
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
Dicks
@quick
You are in deep trouble pal.
You forgot the hash tag (aka numbor symbol). observe.
#Dicks
...what? Everyone is attacking them? Like, really? If I show you the middle finger and pair your professional or personal activity with shady, possibly illegal and maybe criminal activity you're not allowed to say a thing? And
if before buying I open a ticket admitting my association with one of the most famous forums about VPS and the like, you're pissed off?
Sorry, but this can't be defended.
the way he used to express that concept wasn't cool at all, but I agree on the concept itself. For all I know, this forum had a "white hat" vocation and not so far ago even "grey" threads like the "free gsuite" ones were discouraged/banished. Being paired with scum is not cool too.
If you look closely those "Asians" are not really active here, they rely on their blogs and some of their bloggers (or one of their referrals) sometimes pop up here only to complain, mostly because of some unrealistic expectation set up by a third party and not because of a thread on LET, or because they're driven by said "Asian" review sites to companies that can't provide an "Asian"-translated ToS and "Asian"-friendly payment methods simply because some smaller companies didn't really want to target such audience to begin with.
AntonySmith's proposal (remove all references to their brand) is way more of a Gentlemen's Agreement than most of those "Asian" bloggers are ready to provide. Yet, LET is HackingForums.
I've ironically started null-routing the whole
(along with AS29073 and few others) on all my (personal) idling and non-idling VPS. Dropping packets like hot potatoes whilst watching the kill count slowly raising. A man should have some fun sometimes.
cheap prices always attract shoeminers and abusers, as you move yourself out of that market POOF you've a different whole set of problems but shoemining possibly ain't one. I'm fairly confident that the content producers/lurkers ratio on LET is 1:1000 and the nastier abusers aren't even member (or at least active members) here.
What I don't get here is that anyone who would consider them selves a friend of Gordon or Incero isn't outraged by the fact your FRIEND threw your fucking community (supposed to also be your friends) under a bus and did it with full intentions of alienating people from Low End Talk. This isn't just a comment on who they want to do business with, its a comment on the fact they no longer have an in at LET and can't get away with doing ignorant asshole shit to LET members anymore. However, instead of just leaving the community or quietly rejecting accounts in a way that doesn't draw attention, they outright said "FUCK YOU LET, EAT A DICK".
If this isn't being a #DICK I don't know what is.
That very fact should have them banned from here, it is the most important rule here.
What does being a dick mean?
It is used as a pejorative term for individuals (entities) who are considered to be rude,
abrasive, inconsiderate, or otherwise contemptible.
I think this move is all of the above and more.
Now, since they have shit on us and sit behind their screens now laughing at us as we get upset about their treatment, how can we have an effect on them?
Well, it surely won't be by the friends or hosts which use Incero voicing their opinions, they are all too scared to piss off Gordon and lose their special deal for hosting that he gives to his "friends".
So whats next? Should we block their resellers? Honestly, this is the logical next step, because at the same time they edited their ToS they should have also sent an e-mail to their customers stating they did not care for business from here, but wait, if they did that it would actually mean being a #DICK right to their customers face, so instead they decided to hide it in the ToS for someone to find later.
Incero is the one punishing their own customers by making this decision, in fact I would encourage any host using Incero here that notes losses from being associated with Incero to document this fact and then consider forwarding it to the Texas AG citing unethical business practices and suing them for your losses, especially if they didn't take the time to send their ToS update to you and specifically outline their new policies. They are the ones you should be mad at, NOT 'LET' for banning Incero hosts because of their policies they made with no consideration for their customers or their customers customers.
Why should LET support a company that treats its customers that way? Why should this be considered acceptable? In short, we shouldn't and it IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
I expect @jarland to rolls his eyes and then quote him self earlier stating he expected this, but for fuck sake, what are you thinking here Jarland? Where is the line? When does it become too much? When people literally lose their livelihood? When they force another host to close because they want the business and have no issue pushing their own customers out to get it? When they sell cheap servers in a market they don't intend to stay in just to take business from other hosts? When Gordon pulls out a gun and shoots somebody? The question is rhetorical and yes I am starting to think for you the line is invisible anyways.
I am all for tolerance and second chances but as far an Incero goes they have already burnt their bridges and their 5th and 6th chances, it's time for a change!
my 2 cents.
Cheers!
Edit: has been brought to my attention that the intentional over dramatization is not apparent. I'm not mad at the person I'm responding to
I'll deal with my fucking friends however the fuck I want to, fucker.
I give my feedback to my vendors (edit: vendors who can shut me down) in private because I care about my customers more than pleasing you who I don't owe a fucking thing to, you stupid fuck. Learn to fucking read the fucking thread. Fuck.
Threw in a few fucks for you and a really bad attitude, seemed like you wanted it, was happy to provide it. Going back to my dinner now.
The only thing I got from the thread was that people feel if they give money to a provider who is purchasing services/using services from Incero they would then choose to not purchase it. This is probably not unique to just Incero.
So before we ban anyone, maybe change one of the rules of selling that a test IP/location disclosure move from ideal to be required. I would normally say this figures itself out with people commenting in threads, but we probably don't need someone with a hard on for one specific person always posting in their offer threads "Uses Incero, support at your own risk." with a link to this thread.
With the hate towards some past hosts this might have been handy or just informative with the "no OVH, Hetzner, Online.net" requests. If people are selling stuff from those locations it might be nice to know. Let people vote with wallets.
However one could also say that consumers should do their own research before purchasing.
Either way, I would like more providers here not less. I have found the number of interesting/different offers on a variety of services lacking recently to say the least.
I personally have chosen to not do business with Incero after a Wabble issue. But I would rather have the choice not to use MXRoute(example) than not even know it exists.
My 2 cents as a nobody really participating in the community.
What is wrong with that? We treat each friend differently.
Speaking of, you still owe me seatcovers from when you liquishit them.
I thought deadpool was a movie, but They Just cut 80% of their customers. Yeah deadpool is coming.
@jarland
I am glad you are checking and prey that everyone else checks with their providers when they change the rules.
As much as some people may hate me for it, there really isn't a better thing I could do for my customers than to keep their data with a provider where I know where I stand. I do have relationships with my vendor and I do know that I will be treated better than a promo customer on their cheaper brands. One can say it's unfair or that I get special treatment and that's fine. Maybe to some degree I do (though I'll challenge anyone making the accusation to provide data, not feelings, I know for a fact others have similar relationships because they provide mutual success), but that further solidifies that it's the right choice for me. I'll always do what's best for my customers, not what's best for sales today based on whatever drama thread of the week on LET. I'm not looking for solidarity, I'm looking to succeed and I'm looking to share that success with my vendors.
blacklisting customers of Incero's is overkill (and imo childish).
Incero and Speedy dont want business or traffic from here - for whatever the reasons - so what. walk away and go to providers that do want your business.
I'd personally never sell to this community - but only because I couldnt do it profitably.
other providers have quit this space in the past and nobody really misses them too much.
so what if he gives the middle finger to everyone - give him your best cheese eating grin and use someone elses services.
I hope you understand that I understand that you know that I know that this is a hard thing to comment on when it supports your livelihood and that I do have a great deal of respect for you and your contributions here regardless of my comments and feelings conveyed in my writing here.
That said, if Incero doesn't want to be here, I see no reason for you to keep trying to convince us that this treatment of our community is 'okay', at least this time it just doesn't feel that way at all. I wouldn't expect you to change hosts or any host here to jump ship because of this, but at the same time I wouldn't be saying this is the right way to do things either.
my 2 cents.
Cheers!
See this, to me, is like what I called out on page 6-7. It comes across to me as putting words in my mouth. Please tell me one time in this thread that I tried to convince anyone that anything Incero did is okay. All I did, repeatedly, was express this clearly:
Incero says no more LET members moving forward: 0 customers removed.
LET says no more providers using Incero: >0 providers removed.
(And also where I stand on the idea of migrating, I did express that, but I don't think you're talking about that)
This means functionally, in terms of real world impact on someone's existing reality (not proposed reality, not options for the future, but current reality), LET would be the only ones directly inflicting real, measurable pain right here today.
Nothing about that is a judgement in either direction of Incero, neither good nor bad. It's a judgement of the LET response. If you're looking for judgement of Incero on this, I don't see a lack of it.
Frankly, if it was anyone but you making me repeat that I'd just laugh hysterically, but come on bro... it's all here in the thread. Don't speed read it if you're going to judge me like that. It's a common decency request to someone I know is capable of meeting it.
The main aim of incero in Terms was never intended not to get LET customers ,but to throw them directly when any random price hike occurs two weeks before renewal date . This is not affecting anybody now because it is intended that way only , but to keep running their bait and switch policy without anybody having to complain .
One thing I started doing a while ago, or at least trying to do: When I start talking badly about another provider, I tend to remove my signature for a while. Not to hide what I do, I think everyone interested in anything I'd have to say already knows that, but to make my intentions clear: I'm not trying to talk someone else down to market myself.
Maybe no one notices, I don't know, but to me it's just a character thing. It's "this is the kind of person I want to be."
I only do that when I say nice things about other providers.
too bad vanilla doesn't have a 'hide signature' option per post!
I just wanted to add, for the humor of it if anyone wanted to share the laugh with me:
The funny thing is that no matter what I do in these situations, I get called out for bias. I've almost completely stopped commenting on Incero's actions quite some time ago (being asked to make a judgement as admin is different), no one noticed, they just kept accusing me of doing it anyway. To the point of even bringing me up if I was silent about it, just to make an accusation against me. I'd talk about other things in the threads, people would see what they wanted to see and still accuse me of the same thing.
There's a strong set of members here that only see what they want to see, and belligerently fights to uphold the values without even taking a moment to actually stop and objectively verify whether or not those values are being tested. You can see it here, every single time I've been accused of trying to convince someone that what Incero did was right. I mean just look back at some quotes from my posts:
I could go on but I think that expresses the idea. You start to see why being admin was getting to me. Can't even honestly have a discussion in the community because people only see what they want to see. For me, it got to the point where people would literally jump into threads and speak for me on what they expected me to say from their biased viewpoints, and would receive the LET equivalent of a roaring applause. That's not a healthy community. It's really sad that we've gotten there, and I hope that fresh blood can join and start to drive conversations a bit more objectively.
No matter our disagreements, and we will have them, @AnthonySmith will be the right person for the job here. At least until you guys beat him down to the point where you did me, where even if he typed complete gibberish you'd see a clear message that matched your opinion and expectation of him.
Hackers, botnet herders, spammers, fraudsters, organized cyber crime, etc. Largest concentration from there. Doesn't matter if they launch attacks from US or Western EU servers...
I was not aware all saints live in western countries .
In Asian + East European , you are talking about more than half of human population itself (around 5 billion out of 7 billion ) , so obviously you will see those aggressive kind with new Internet penetration in most countries. More days go , more you are going to deal with an Asian or African due to population size and young population (which is becoming more tech savvy and nasty/playful mind ?? ) .
nah - the bulk of the shit comes from there is because western law is unlikely to get you and the significant difference in incomes. its risk and reward.
Too much drama.
They banned us, we ban their two accounts.
That's all. Life continues.
@jarland, @AnthonySmith will suffer and will probably walk down on a similar path as yours.
May the balls comfort thee.
I would wager 50-80% on the high end of your customers are from LET. Without this community your mxroute wouldn't be where it is now and i feel you should remember that.
What are you suggesting? I think I'd know whether or not I need offer posts to grow, if that's what you're referring to.
How can they know if I am a member or not. I mean, I can register using a different email and name from my LET account.
On the other hand, f*** you Incero since long time ago, when they without any reason just terminated my account like that without any notice and still have a few weeks left on that account before renewal.
@jarland
Remember not to take everyone's opinion too hard. Engage with the good things, and disengage with the things you don't like.
That is generally what I do.
I always loved to hear other peoples opinions alot and in another life, I could see myself as the guy on TV interviewing people.
Now I care a good amount less because my views are solidifying and can recognize when the discussion is going nowhere.
This is part of the reason why people here "Shit Post" alot. Because it sort of helps break tention like in a Shakespearian play
and because it seems like everything has been said.
And for the record I got no business with any of the people involved. All though oneday when I am rich enough to idle vps I would love to be served by Jarland at digital ocean.
Because when all is said and done he sounds like good support staff.