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How do you feel a out providers promising "unlimited" HD, CPU and RAM?
Heya all,
This community is full of experienced people in regards to hosting, on all its flavors.
So I wonder.. How do you feel about providers promising unlimited resources?
Personally, I'd love for these providers to be hammered and forced to reflect on their marketing pages what they hid in their TOS.
It goes without saying that I don't subscribe any of these services and advice people to avoid such providers entirely.
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Comments
This really comes down to the same mentality as AYCE places. Do you go there to gorge? Sometimes. Must you make a pig of yourself and take EVERYTHING so nobody else who also paid to eat has nothing? No. Will you grab the last slice of Black Forest cherry cake? Possibly.
Offer a sarcastic option please bro. Like $7.
Maybe that reasoning applies to people that know what they are using.
Most people do not, the only reason they buy into unlimited is because they truly believe there are no limits.
The only reason hosting companies make such promises and then hide limits in their TOS is because they know the above is true.
I once spoke with the SEO of a large Hosting Corp. After a while he simply acknowledged that refunding who caught up to them pays of.
In short they capitalize on their clients illiteracy (on this topic).
I will never buy such a service. The only thing that I see if the say it is "unlimited" is oversold.
If they hid it in their TOS, they will limit/terminate you. What makes you think they will make their marketing pages sincere?
You have vigor, but didn't think this through.
It's one of those times one realizes that regulation can be positive to the market.
I would, out of love, but I can't edit the poll....
I use unlimited shared hosting plans and I don't run into problems, much to the annoyance of the nerds who insist that unlimited equals infinite and is there impossible.
It's a risk and all of business is really. Position yourself for success and do your best. Sell unlimited shared hosting and state what is allowed, like "only for content required by your website, file sharing or video streaming sites not allowed" to make the risk perfectly manageable.
Nerds here love limits, but Grandma doesn't know how many gigermabits her recipe blog takes, so she picks the host that doesn't tell her to count numbers she doesn't even understand. That's who unlimited is for, not the person who thinks they're saving two dollars on Dropbox by abusing shared hosting.
Also no one offers unlimited RAM or CPU, people offering unlimited don't advertise those resources at all.
Again, you have good intentions but lack clarity. There is regulation already - against false advertising but it's not enforced enough. Because no one bothered to sue the biggest offenders or they are summer hosts or it's complicated due to international nature of such matters. Adding new wonderful law "Hosting providers are prohibited to lie about their services, breach contracts and advertise offers violating laws of physics" would be cute but rather superfluous and useless.
I am amazed at how space concerving everything in linux is.
I got 80 gb of ssd in my one and only vps and guess what I highly doubt I will use half.
The only issues we might have later is cpu and memory as always.
So for most people, the limmitted unlimmitted is enough.
According to this topic; https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/130955/shared-hosting-on-virmach-com-versus-vpshared-com#latest
Virmach offers unlimited CPU, Ram, HD and bandwidth.
According to someone who doesn't work for them, and has been here for about a year.
Virmach makes some statements here, but none of those support your qualifications of that original poster.
Just because some random shithead says they saw Elvis, it doesn't make that the policy of the Starbucks he was spotted in.
In fact, had you not specifically said "VirMach", I would have discounted your statement as "Will learn."
VirMach doesn't take abuse lightly, and if you start consuming 4GB of RAM and half of the open connections, you will certainly find that "Unlimited" merely means "In accordance with our policy", same as every other host.
We have this "Is it lying" conversation at least once a month. Long story short, it's unlikely to change, and there's a difference between common sense, and "trying to push the boundaries to see just how far I can get".
If you don't agree with the policies, or don't want to get slapped down for abusing a node because it appears to imply "whatever you want" if you take the most light, arrogant view of what is a finite resource- don't conduct business that way.
"Trust no one," is my motto.
Another one I love is, "Everyone is out there to scam you."
You seem to be touchy about Virmach, and decided it was due time for a long rant, which felt a tad too personal to me. Maybe you should tone it down a notch
That said, I referred to the post of someone else, clearly. I even used the words "according to".
Moreover, in my original post, I clarified I don't resort to such services, there's no need for "Will learn". Thanks for worrying(?)
And let's be clear, selling something as unlimited to then hid limits in a TOS, is lying. Its that simple. Just because other people also do it, it doesn't mean its not. It only means its a common lie. "hooray?".
There's nothing arrogant about thinking that "unlimited" means unlimited. Innocent... maybe.
Projecting a little? You made a statement that a provider said the services were unlimited, and a few posts from that I linked to an official statement from the provider about their RAM and CPU allowed, which I guess you just didn't want to read.
Good luck with your future services at WootAlphaSecureValleyHand.
I made no such statement*. Let me suggest for you to read and reply to what I actually posted.
Edit for clarity; in regards to RAM, CPU and BW which is when I mentioned the other LET topic where Virmach was mentioned.
The discussion I mentioned in my initial post was not with Virmach and was about HD.
It's us the consumers that spawned such retards in the first place. If nobody would buy into the lies then those rotten apples will just rott away. Whenerve i see a statement in an offer and another statement in AuP that contradicts the offer statement i just move on to the next "apple". And there are so many apples to choose from these days...
Yep. How many people here are having issues with "unlimited" providers while using them to only host website related content again? Anyone? Because I've got 3 accounts at 3 different unlimited hosts and no problems. Kinda contradicts your narrative doesn't it.
When you're so jaded that you want part of a market to fail simply because it doesn't work in your personal mind....
Well, Virmach actually does advertise "unlimited" in many categories, like database, storage (ironically only for the smallest plan though), bandwidth (I guess they mean traffic), and so on - https://virmach.com/website-hosting/
My stance on "unlimited" is a bit ambivalent. In most cases it is just a blatant lie for marketing purposes. That being said there are things which could be theoretically somewhat unlimited.
@jarland said:
Sorry, but now you sound like one of those shady ToS. If I purchase unlimited storage it is up to me how I use my unlimited storage and not up to the provider to define what bytes are worthy of storing.
Perfect. I couldn't agree more.
BTW that same nerds love plans with unmetered traffic. :-)
You'd think if people were having problems with the "unlimited" part (people using it for web hosting as intended, not trying to use it as backup/media storage), there'd be a better response to that question than what I "sound like." Sorry but reality here separates from the idealist, the idealist imagines a reality different than the one which largely occurs. Unlimited works and is sustainable, even if it infuriates people who feel unable to compete because they're scared of theoretical possibilities with the business model. Ask Dreamhost if they're still standing. They are the antithesis to the points people continually bring up, they can't be ignored or rationalized out of it.
With any system there will be someone who tries to abuse it, someone who feels scammed (aka plays victim card), and someone who legitimately falls through the cracks. Unlimited hosts that have been standing for many years seem to have very few of those relative to their size, in relation to amount of provided file storage.
I would say it is pretty easy to define abuse and scamming in this context. If someone purchases a plan with unlimited storage that person should be able to make use of that storage without being called abuser and if the provider then attempts to pull ToS tricks it can quickly turn into a scam without even requiring a "victim card".
At the end of the day it is a much better choice if the provider signals clear limits and does not offer unlimited when they actually then enforce arbitrary limits.
Know anyone purchasing unlimited web hosting from a reputable and established provider that is having trouble using the storage space for web hosting? You say it's better to go with someone who doesn't advertise unlimited so you must know someone.
I propose that it is not objectively better to choose a host based on them not offering unlimited. Bad hosts exist that do and do not offer that, it is not the determining factor, I propose. Rather, I submit, that this is a sentiment spread by providers on WHT who are scared to compete with the unlimited providers that are not kicking out customers who are using their storage for web hosting (literally the product they purchased, not backup storage or media server, web hosting it's plastered all over the sites, not the bottom of a TOS in tiny font), like Dreamhost or a2hosting. I propose that you don't have any way to back up that statement at all, but that you're just continuing the propagation of this opinion shared by web hosts frustrated by their competition in a saturated market.
Let's draw a correlation to something that providers on WHT don't feel threatened by, though absolutely equivalent, so you don't hear about it:
Why is no one standing up to the massive immorality and dishonesty of web hosting providers not limiting page views? Every single cPanel based web host is allowing unlimited page views! This is mathematically impossible and dishonest. Instead they're hiding vague limits in their TOS about terminating you for abuse but they can't tell you how many pages views it takes to be abusive!
No one standing against unlimited page views? You might say the number isn't as absolute but same with storage, you can add storage to a system these days, and with cPanel you can just configure a new home directory for new accounts. So they're both a bit relative but there's a top end cap. So why is only unlimited storage (for web hosting, not backups or your movie collection, we're talking about unlimited storage for web hosting) the only thing getting a bad rep? Because scared little providers that probably shouldn't exist anyway in the over saturated shared hosting market are scared of it and want you behind them as they lobby for communities like ours and WHT to keep the competition that scares them the most out of their space.
It's the only thing that makes sense when our rules forbid established companies using sustainable models for years with no significant complaints of issues storing data for web hosting (only for web hosting).
>
Your theory that calling out host that sell limited "unlimited" plans is out of other companies being afraid to compete doesn't hold water.
There's no shortage of companies competing with the same "unlimited" shenanigans, and that includes companies that promote in WHT instead of LET, so for the live of me.. I don't get it why you even brought WHT into this.
Moreover, something most companies at WHT will agree with you, is that it's the client fault for not knowing its not possible to provide such a service.
Naturally, companies that use the same marketing scheme won't talk against it.
That said, unlimited storage is a pretty simple concept, and the reason why providers then hide the limits in their TOS. There's no "but this". It either haves limits or it does not.
I do agree that there are plenty of bad host around, not all use the "unlimited" shenanigan.
And now for a personal story. Many moons ago I hosted an e-commerce website at one of those "unlimited storage" plans. After a while that account was suspended, and after inquiring the support department, I was told I had broken the TOS rule of "fair usage", which they would not provide what it really meant it terms of limits.
That site was a low traffic e-commerce site with plenty of products, so that meant a lot of images, and images can be heavy. So basically I was consuming too much of my "unlimited" storage to host website related files.
Dreamhost. Possible, sustainable, exists in practice and has for years. This is a false statement.
And yet it continues to work.
Wrong. Unlimited is not infinite. It means you're not limited by a disk space number for your website hosting product. If you can use the storage for website hosting (not some elaborate scheme to store your backups while vaguely pretending that it's web hosting but anyone with a brain knows what you're doing) then you can do it on Dreamhost and they won't limit you. They're not the only one, they're my easy and consistent example.
Exactly. This is why it's important that reputable hosts be used. If unlimited is unsustainable, for example, we won't have to reference providers that could be argued to be unsustainable operations as a whole, for many other reasons. We should be able to look to Dreamhost and say "Your model is unsustainable, you cannot offer what you sell." We can't though, because they are sustainable and they are offering what they sell, which is web hosting with disk space defined as unlimited (not infinite, just not limited by a disk space number, this is not vague, it's exactly what unlimited storage for web hosting means).
Can I be dead honest with you here? I would bet the world's nuclear arsenal that your termination had nothing to do with storage. You ran an ecommerce site packed with products. Have you ever seen what that does, in PHP, on an Apache-based server? I guarantee you were the sole cause of server load spikes every time Google crawled your page. You probably also automated the product updates by running a cron job which hammered the server for a half hour every time. If you were using Magento and you're not aware of very specific settings, the amount of strain on the server caused by each page load grew slowly over time due to the way it logs traffic. If WordPress + wordfence a few years ago same thing but worse (it actually compared every visitor to the growing MySQL table, and the ecommerce plugins all render static caching plugins fairly useless).
The reality remains here that there's a heavy preference for theory over reality. Ignore the hosts doing fine, continue to state that it's impossible to offer. You can speculate on the motives that would drive people to intentionally ignore reality in favor of theory, mine is that they're financially invested in the matter or simply parroting the opinion of someone who is. Could also be the start of a new religion though, I suppose
Unlimited does not mean infinite. Yet I usually sell my customers I do websites for an "unlimited" package. They wouldn't know if they need 1gb or 10gb or even 100mb. For others who bring their own websites it provides peace of mind given everybody so far seems to know the unwritten "dont be a dick" rule. A Provider is very unlikely to suspend/terminate you for legit/fair usage. It usually is more of a problem that "unlimited" attracts some d*cks who think they are going to host the new Megaupload on a shared hosting who ruin it for others.
Or the immorality and dishonesty of web hosting providers not limiting tickets ...
It's impossible to provide unlimited HD. Its reality.
That's why no one does it, they simply hide limits in their TOS.
Unlimited <> Limited
And people continue to complain because they felt tricked.
These companies "risk management" is to bed that most users won't ever have any real usage of any resource, because most websites just idle.
unlimited
ʌnˈlɪmɪtɪd/
adjective
adjective: unlimited
"offshore reserves of gas and oil are not unlimited"
synonyms:
inexhaustible, limitless, illimitable, boundless, unbounded, immense, vast, great, extensive, immeasurable, incalculable, untold, unfailing, everlasting, infinite, endless, never-ending, bottomless, measureless, inestimable, cosmic More
We don't get to decide what a word means.
You just lost that bet. The support dep of that hosting company stated that I was using more HD that I should under the "fair usage" rule. They would not define the limit, I insisted to no avail. By the way, they arestill around and kicking.
And now with all the nukes in the world I will force every hosting company to clearly state their limits in their sales sheets, yeah me!
Actually unlimited means having no limits.
Here is the definition for ya.
unlimited ʌnˈlɪmɪtɪd/
adjective adjective: unlimited 1. not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent. "offshore reserves of gas and oil are not unlimited"
synonyms: inexhaustible, limitless, illimitable, boundless, unbounded, immense, vast, great, extensive, immeasurable, incalculable, untold, unfailing, everlasting, infinite, endless, never-ending, bottomless, measureless, inestimable, cosmic More
And the provider alone gets to decide who's the dick and who's fair. That's the problem with "unlimited" instead of clearly state what they are selling.