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Comments
I didn't rob a bank, my hardware failed.
Assuming we had a 'normal' flow of issue, as we assumed we would have, we would have been fine. I did consider getting some new servers for old customers but when I realised I would have to replace pretty much everything I realised it wasn't going to happen.
Which I concede is a good thing, but the simple fact of the matter is they offered a product to raise cash and are now dumping it because it's much too work and the new project is more shiny.
I read at the time they were raising cash for a new project, I just didn't expect such an under handed way of dealing with those that helped raise the capital for a new venture. But you reap what you sow, in the long run
I would definitely call it unfortunate, but there's no deception or deliberate malice here.
I'm aware we're going to have a giant black mark against our name because of this, but have decided to do it anyway. I think that says something about the extent of the problems here.
Of course it isn't. If it were a scam why would we be giving out refunds?
Because your goal is reached. You got from us enough money over night to build UKCloud but you don't need us anymore. And if you don't refund us you ruin also UKCloud future reputation. It's nothing honest in this manipuation. You used us and now when you don't need us anymore you're kicking us out.
@titanicsaled you're forgetting the fact that he can't run away because he have plans with his new brand UKCloud. If he run away he ruin also UKCloud. So he don't doing this out of honesty but because he simply need to.
@jtodd maybe I was overly harsh using the word scam but all the problems you listed in the email must have be known at the time and you decided to do it anyway. I think you owe those users more than just a "thanks but I cba providing the service you paid for, so have some money back"
Again, just little things like links to the customer portals, what levels of service you could offer knowing the rough outline of all the deals including price, etc, would have helped. You've done nothing, you could have at least made some kind of effort to give people alternatives (even if they were more expensive) with a free month or two in credits, you might have even converted some of the LEB customers to higher margin ones. But all you've done is left a bad taste in people's mouths.
I don't see that as an acceptable way to do business, if you want to stay in business.
Yes I know, I bought 2 of them and saw his post about the future project. Like I said, you don't tend to want to get into situations like this when you are trying to promote a new business. Shit happens.
Last time I checked robbery was illegal and giving people an apology and a refund for a service failure was not.
Yes things could be different behind the curtain as you put it, but neither of us have any way of knowing. I think in general, people tend to tell the truth, perhaps I'm too trusting
Anyway, no more from me on this, I'm meant to be working lol.
The money to cover the refunds is coming out of the UKCloud hardware 'pot', so we haven't gained anything here apart from a bad reputation.
I've been 'arsed' for a long time and have taken losses for LEB/LET customers for awhile now to fix issues, but as I said, there comes a point when one has to be realistic.
What we can do for you depends on what your needs are - it's not something I can just propose a couple of options for for everyone. Fundamentally though as long as we're at least breaking even we'll move you to our cloud. I don't think we've converted any LEB/LET customers if that makes you feel any better - mainly just the ones who were paying £25/month +.
From what I've read, they generally do a runner actually. Feel free to keep track on the status of the refunds though.
I believe something along those lines are mentioned in the email:
Not sure how much room there is in the pricing but it does look like @jtodd is making the effort you're asking for.
I'm torn on all this. Does seem like though @jtodd is making the effort to cover his agreements. He's not doing what reported happened to him with another provider.
As long as we're at least breaking even, we'll do it.
I'm on xm11, I'm happy knowing you're working on getting it back up and running
@drmike you're usually less generous to hosts with lesser sins that this one who knowingly exploited one brand with yearly prepayments to raise money for other brand and then kick out clients of first brand before their payment expire.
Gah, I've going to have to spend my weekend migrating stuff to a new VPS.
Which provider to change to? buyvm has no stock.
I can suggest VooServers and BurstNET - they are our current suppliers.
+1 for @jtodd taking this risk, im sure it will benefit the new company in the long run and whilst yes, people are going to be upset, you cant put a price on honesty, especially in this industry.
Nobody has been scammed, nobody has been ripped off. I know James personally and know that we share some of the same feelings regarding moving from the LEB market to the higher end of things, i know that he will make things right even it takes some time to clear his name after this.
1) Unfortunately I've been getting singled out here at LEB/LET by some users for what I say. @Joel is a lot cruder than the comments I make but yet I get insulted and some folks make bigoted remarks at me but yet what he says gets accepted and I get shit on by some folks here. Maybe someday @LowEndAdmin will get around to dealing with the issue but I'm not holding my breath.
You forgot to mention that @jtodd is offering refunds and is willing to work with folks. if you;re going to complain about a providers, please at least be honest with what you're reporting.
3) It's all moot since this is @LowEndAdmin's site and he pretty much lets anyone get away with anything. We have providers here hosting child porn, running their sites with warez and hacked certificates, spammers and scammers, etc., and they're all allowed. At the very least, even if this is a scam, it's less of one than what's normal around here.
@Heinz where's your bitching about my issues with Quickweb? Roel flat out lied a number of times in his comments towards me, dropped tickets, and didn't provided the service that I had signed up and paid for. I don't see any comment from you or others here complaining about what he had done. I guess it's OK for one provider to be less than ethical but it's not OK for another provider to do so.
Sorry but I;m not seeing it here.
edit: Just to mention, I recently bought 5 VPSes from folks around here within the last 2 months. I spent my money with specific hosts whom I feel know what they're doing and passed on others who treated me and others like shit.
Jeff,
I was about to submit the ticket, but I see that you are active on this thread and maybe my request could be useful for other people.
I bought a promotional 10 GBP/year VPS last november: quality and stability of the network connection has been well above my expectations. Is also worth mentioning that the invoice was properly done, with correct VAT reference and company references. This is not to be taken for granted on the LEB market. I usually buy LEB on my personal account and keep them for at least a year for test purposes; after a year I will decide if the provider is worth for company use; need further test; or should be dropped. On my experience, this is one of the best way to test a provider before committing for big and expensive (on my case well over 2000 GBP/Year) production servers with associated substantial downtime costs. Is my belief that many other Quality Server customers have the same attitude. I see that you choose to change your brand name and service portfolio, and I surely will remember the way you make this transition. For my perspective, on technical ground this is a welcome change, your cloud offer is a lot closer to the type of service I may seek in the future. But you also removed the viability of my usual way of testing. Your lowest cloud server offer is too expensive for a "buy and periodically test" use. Could you arrange a special/promotional/one-time-only low resource (es: 128Mb Ram/ 5Gb disk) cloud VPS configuration with a price point comparable to LEB offerings? It may be a way for me to continue the test. And maybe this is a way to keep some of your old customers.
Best regards
@BHost
WTF? That is unbelieveable, i expected more from a so called "Respectable" hosting company. If that doesn't get removed then this forum has gone to sh*t!
Its Much Bad
Its what Called doing business without Planning ,
If you cant Handle your existing client you don't have right to start new Business .
Tomorrow you will say same thing about Your cloud and Do this with you cloud customer and move on to something new
The balticservers thread is still around:
http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/858/balticservers.com-vps-on-sale
@drmike
Dont get me started on them guys.
So can you migrate existing data from xen to the new "Cloud" ?
The thought damned if you do, damned if you don't comes to mind here.
I spoke with jtodd via phone for more than an hour a couple of weeks back, he told me about the benefits of the UKCloud etc and discussed a few hosting topics. However I was happy on a QualityServers VPS and he explained the hardware was old however he was more than happy to oblige. Now when I called jtodd knew whom I was, and there was no way he was going to put me on a VPS if he thought it was going to be gone next month, that much i'm confident of
And for the record, he is a very well spoken individual on the phone.
Now contrary to all the tin foil hat wearing that's going on in this thread, sometimes shit does happen and murphy the old prick does manage to get his foot in the door. Not everything in life is a conspiracy believe it or not. So jtodd has an option, replace the servers and equipment, then most likely risk the business becoming insolvent. Additionally as QualityServers is not being pushed anymore these nodes are going to lose even more money over the duration, not make more. Or alternatively, ensure the solvency of his business, take a bit of backwash but be front up and offer pro-rata refunds. Now whatever small margin he was making on these plans, he's going to lose that anyway in time spent processing refunds and man hours supporting.
Secondly, he has offered where possible to try and move customers to the UKCloud:
Now what do the nay-sayers want? Because clearly if he doesn't make this move it risks his business and guess what, next stop is deadpool. Have you even stopped to consider that maybe the whole reason @jtodd has created The UKCloud is because he realised that he was unable to keep servicing the LEB market? Perhaps he has worked out quicker than some that it may not be the money pot everyone thinks it is. To be financially viable in the LEB market takes more than just a good price on nodes and data, you actually need a very tight, slim and trim business model that cuts all the fat. Furthermore, if the UK is like Australia in terms of tax rates and red-tape legalities it makes it even more challenging.
To sum it up:
The situation is not ideal, granted. Nobody chooses a host with the desire to be forced off at a later date.
He is not "stealing" your money, he's providing a pro-rated refund.
He has recognised that the hardware has aged, and is no longer fit for sale. Instead of paying for borked hardware, you're getting those months refunded.
He has openly offered to work with you where he can to migrate you and work with you on cost of the new UKCloud.
And last of all, he's not running anywhere with your money.
He has pretty much done the opposite of every deadpool entry on LEB, and is making every effort to keep his business solvent and out of the deadpool. You would be cursing and asking for his skin if he went deadpool, sometimes reality is decisions whether you like them or not need to be made and saying "why don't you just continue" does not always meet reality and the results of sitting by and doing nothing.
If you don't believe @jtodd deserves your money, take a pro-rated refund and spend that money elsewhere. If you don't like the look of his hair, the smell of his aftershave, take a pro-rated refund and spend that money elsewhere. Basically, if you don't like what he's done here, just take your money and spend it elsewhere. It's really that simple, inconvenient, but simple.
@DrMike I thought I did well in this one, there's only a few tin foil hat references, a bit of shit 'n pricks. Overall you would have to agree that's a pretty subdued effort
Perhaps you should try cussing a little more, maybe they will pick on you less 
Some one is certainly in a mood today lol
@DanielM
Lmao
Sorry, im still picking up the pieces from our recent "Issues" so i guess i feel for James. Then that pure "Poaching" post took me over the edge. Better stick a Damian Marley album on chill the hell out haha
@Joel with one difference. All this was predicted already. Everything! We knew.. some of us.. includig James knew it! But he still shamelessly advertised new and new yearly prepaid special offers.
When he started with those massive qualityservers advertising to get money for UKCloud, when he started to invite old customers more and more to new brand, when first server from old brand failed... I posted everytime that old customers will be screwed up and everytime he tryed to convice me that they wont, that nodes will stay... but I knew, he knew... qualityservers is just dead brand and he need to get rif of customers no matter what in a way to harm UKCloud as less as possible.
He may looks nice with opening this thread faster that we did but still... he knew that qualityservers wont surive when he posted all those special yearly offers only months before he cancelled qualityservers brand.
What about to feel for us? He used us, exploited us knowingly to build UKCLoud brand. Yes you know him in real and you don't know us, but we "qualityservers" customers are screwed up here not he.
When he posted last QUALITYSERVERS special offers here with yealy prepayment and few weeks later terminated QUALITYSERVERS he knew that he's moving to UKCloud and we will be screwed up but he did it anyway. Because he needed to raise fast money for UKCloud. So yes.. feel for him because you know him, because you consider him as great guy, because... but at the end of the day, he knew that we will be screwed up but he did it anyway.
This certainly smells a bit funny, my VPS has never been down in the 7 months that I've had it (That I've noticed).
Now his entire livelihood is at stake if he doesn't get rid of these servers.
So to confirm, the Hivelocity-hosted VPS's are included in this?
So what you're reinforcing basically is that he had all intention of keeping the service running.
And i'm sitting on the other side of the fence disagreeing with you.
Based on the fact that he was launching a new brand, sure, long term the aim was to discontinue the brand. Discontinuing the brand did not mean discontinuing the service. Long term was to get as much life out of the existing hardware as possible, honor the offers on that hardware, and have a point of difference product that he would hopefully migrate people to. Unfortunately being a new business, running on dated hardware that life of the hardware has come sooner than later. Realising that it has now aged past an acceptable standard he's deciding instead of providing a sub-par service that's forecast to be plagued with problems and risk the whole business, he's going to pro-rata refund.
So you went for a 50/50 bet, it's not like you picked the winner of a horse race. Businesses generally relinquish more than they endure.
I absolutely understand that you feel he was deceptive, and you know that's your right to an opinion, and from where you're standing you've probably convinced yourself that he has been deceptive. However, from where i'm looking at it, and based on a very lengthy conversation with him, i'm saying that I believe he's trying to save his business financially, as well as do the best thing he can by his customers. Sometimes that will fall short of expectation, sometimes that will go beyond expectation, really it's up to each individual to decide whether his a villain or saint. Me, I just think he's a young 20 year old who started a business early and has now grown a bit, had a bit of experience and is finally starting to understand the numbers in business don't lie, and right now those numbers long term aren't looking solvent. Instead of doing a runner, he's trying to save both his customers, and his new brand in the process.
Regards,
Joel
In this case it is. That's a fact. And he didn't stick with a promise to provide service which we paid for.
That's not how things looks like. He's trying to save only new brand. All rest is just ballast which need to go. We have been useful to raise money for UKCloud but nothing more than that.
I should go to search for my question months ago when I asked him at LET why he so agressively advertise yearly qualityservers offers out of sudden. It was few weeks before he discontinued qualityservers.