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The Nuclear Network Option: What Would This Really Do?
DNS is not my strength, but I'm a little confused here.
"According to an email reviewed by Rolling Stone, Ukraine’s request to the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) seeks to revoke domains issued in Russia and shut down primary Domain Name System (DNS) servers in the country — a move that would effectively bar access to Russian internet sites, with the potential of knocking the entire country offline."
It's Rolling Stone so who knows. And my question is not about Russia specifically.
If the world wanted to remove a country from the Internet, what would turning off their CCTLD really do? I mean, isn't that really all ICANN can do is drop the .ru root, right?
That wouldn't stop people inside Russia from accessiung a billion other sites on .com, .org, .eu, .party, .whatever, right, or am I missing something? So really all this does is say "the world can no longer do DNS on .ru domains" which for practical purposes eliminates them from the web and providing other services. But if I'm in Moscow, presumably I could still open a browser and go to LowEndTalk.com, right?
If one really wanted to remove a country from the network, wouldn't that have to be done at a lower layer, by not routing IPs from their networks? RIPE (and probably other) registries would have to report all the AS in Russia and then everyone else would have to agree to stop peering (refuse BGP BGP announcements) from them (I'm probably using the wrong terms because I'm not a network guy).
Of course the criteria of what is a Russian network is unclear. Would a Ford factory in Moscow have a Russian-assigned IP block or something from Ford's own IP stash? Ditto for hundreds of embassies, foreign organizations/companies, etc.
I suppose at an even lower level, of course, there is the physical layer of cutting cables and such though with satellites and google balloons and undersea cables and pigeon protocols and everything else these days, I'm not sure that's relevant.
Comments
While we didn't dive into discussion yet, I would like to warn my Russian friends, that if they want to post something, this could be one of their last chances. According to the above post. And the speed sanctions are implemented these days.
we can consider the question generically, pretend it’s North Korea, etc. i’m really just asking the theory rather than about current events, though obviously they spark the question.
I suspect it is more of creative interpretation by the rolling Stone magazine.
I believe when they say bar access to Russian internet sites, they just mean bar the domain name extension.
To your point I can't think of a way ICANN specifically can do more.
Well, yes and no.
Russia would be able to hijack DNS requests inside the country, and keep .ru resolution working for Russian citizens. Currently a Russian entity is managing the delegated name servers for the .ru ccTLD, and they can keep doing that without ICANN permission. Russian ISPs can just ignore root responses for the .ru zone, and impact would be minimal inside Russia.
Yes, but Russia could then create a "de facto" isolated intranet similar to China, which would be detrimental to western interests in the mid and long term. And they would keep access to the global internet via China, just maybe not for the general population.
Almost correct technically speaking, but this would be a HUGE mess and is unrealistic. A more viable approach would be to throttle international transit and peering for Russian networks, but this is still very unlikely to happen in my opinion due to the huge implications and it just being an useless thing to do.
A network connected to equipment physically located in Russia. This includes many Russian PoPs of "western-owned" networks.
This would be an even biggest mess than the already crazy approaches previously suggested, because cables connecting third countries pass through Russia.
It is, because most bandwidth is provided by cables. Satellites and similar alternatives have very limited bandwidth and ultimately rely on cables anyway.
Russian citizens deserve access to information and the internet just as much as American citizens or anyone else does.
We have never isolated or petitioned that other nations go digitally dark...
Private businesses like NameCheap can be as exclusive as they want, sure, but pushing organizations for a digital blackout is pretty insane.
I support Ukraine in defending itself from a foreign invasion, but I also support the people of Russia by not having them suffer from meaningless bullying just because their government and Putin are assholes.
Simply purchase to a suite of firewall made in China then turn on whitelist.
You can try access Google in China
While compassionate or trying to be fair to Russia, this would not apply pressure needed to make the sanction powerful. I am not saying the sanction is guaranteed to work but I hope you understand what I mean.
There is a much deeper reason why I disagree with dropping of Russia from internet access.
At a broader level, no country is completely aligned with any other because each has its own, and often conflicting, interests. The sole reason alliances are formed between countries because they can find a few common points to agree on and take joint actions on them.
Now, if such a step were to be taken by US-based organizations such as ICANN, IANA, US-based carriers, it would lead to every country (which would also include US allied countries) to introspect its dependencies on the US and foreign carriers, and the logical next step to eliminate it would be to create an isolated, per country, "balkanized" internet, something which ultimately threatens globalization and increases censorship.
In some circles, globalization is a word that invokes bitterness and resentment, but ultimately, the relative period of peace and prosperity after WWII is a direct result of it. It has helped create an environment where zero sum games are discarded for positive sum games, when you can grow your economy and secure your future by way of trade, there is no need for war (except for dictators, who ultimately do not understand positive sum games, but that's a separate topic).
In addition, this forum too is a consequence of globalization. Buying idlers in faraway locations is something that we enjoy, yet neither our obsession with getting the most bang for the buck, nor the providers' business where they serve a large client base all over the world, would have succeeded in a place where everyone was limited to our own borders.
I get the urge of needing to do something in the current situation, but anything that further threatens the very foundations of peace is not something I want. Not to mention the fact that it would make the job of any would be dictators much easier, as they now get to tightly control all flow of information and suppress dissent.
/soapbox
Battlefield moving to the virtual World? That really useless. With space enabled country. With own wide communication system.
They're talking about disconnecting themselves from the internet so maybe no action is needed. Putin has been working for a while on an internal type network called runet, probably more restrictive than what they have in China.
why only banning Russia ? ban usa and all its allies for invasion in iraq, afghnistan ? why Ukraine is so special than those countries which has face worse than Ukraine with US multi year invasion
In USA they won't care if they're unable to browse some random .md website, I think.
We call it some little bullshit makers. Folks still believe if they cut off cable people in other side get big troubles with it. Sounds funny.
Problem is Western people still not recognize Rus mentality. Look into history.
Most likely it really exist ("Солдат не жалеть, бабы ещё нарожают" sums it up it very well) and you'll have to live with it alone.
Now I think I'd vote to leave internet in place in Russia, as they already have failed government, failed army and collapsing economy.. But what they did against free neighbouring nation is unthinkable and price for this must and will be very high.
@vero
You are really like a kid, or overaged kid. No one wants war here and really apologize for simple Ukrainians.
Why no one cares about people in Iraq, libya, Syria, Kosovo and Donbass? Why no one tried to massive information attack to their invaders and those who bomb them? Same people, may be only with different color of skin. That one side world you're appealing to. I was not won the battle but at least shit into their boots?
relatively "civilized"
While I don't approve of the genocide Russia is doing in Ukraine against Ukrainians i don't think disconnecting Russia from the internet is necessarily a good thing. It will only allow the propaganda machine to move ahead without Russian people having thr option to research and look into things themselves.
Unfortunately, Russia already has a wide range of Russian-made DPI systems, including what is called 'TSPU'. It's pretty capable, maybe not as capable as Chinese GFW, but it's getting close: it can block certain protocols, detect and block tunnels, etc.
If anyone interested, we discuss Russian internet censorship here: https://ntc.party/c/internet-censorship-all-around-the-world/russia/12
Basically you're apologizing for your brothers killing civilians in Ukraine. It's rather like slap in a face. But I also can understand you, just saying this happens because of an attitude (or rather absence of it) of a whole Russian nation. They go to die for nothing to sovereign country. Russians doesn't even pickup corpses for a week. They don't honor their soldiers alive or dead. That's why that quote was so important. I don't want you to feel guilty, just to understand why you'll have to suffer measures for your government actions. As I would for mine if they would f**k up all the way.
Short answer - when Russians come, they always occupy. They don't leave any chance for freedom. They don't go away. At least not leaving puppet government behind them.
People is not a military and govs and cannot be responsible for their actions. Suggest you do not push all nation into one move.
Why you not apologizing when your government with military 8 years continue to kill civilians in Donbass?
Bomb buildings and schools? Shot out families and small kids? Only because they select other way to stay away. Do you think you never get responded for it? Time may be changed.
Dude, look into history. Rus always help to obtain freedom for all nations who asking for help and always leave out without occupation. Soviet Union always do that. Do not tell bullshit please.
Libya, Syria, Kosovo and Donbass are kinda civil war at beginning (Whatever who's behind).
In Iraq period, the internet is not prosperous like today, people cares but only saw it on TV. US citizens protested as well, however there's a common excuse like 911.
I'm not Ukrainian. But I know very well how Russian propaganda works.
Wow. Looks like you really don't need internet as you didn't use it until now. At least not for propaganda.
Both military and governments are comprised of people, not aliens and not cows(maybe some pigs there).
Soviet Union was actually created by occupying other nations, what are you even talking about... So much freedom in Ukraine right now, so much joy... oh, wait.
I can tell the same to you. We seen massive information attacks from mass media controlled from west. Many info even not match really if check out
Show me examples please when Russians coming to some country and occupy them? Even never in history going overseas to colonize Asia or Africa
Show me examples please.
All the ex ussr republics, the fuck?
Howdy shit.. Suggest you look into historical documents first.
Come on, this guy is trolling. He had an opportunity to learn history in school, but chose to be paid by Russian government instead. It's so beautiful to see forum (not only this) members showing who they really are. So I'll stop right here.
Soviet historical documents(propaganda)? Don't be silly.
Okay. You our best hero here, and all others just disturb you.
Which propaganda the best? Ours or yours?