Lots of cloud for little money. Hetzner Online redefines cloud hosting.

varwww · January 2018

Quick question. Is this similar to DigitalOcean where you can prepay with PayPal and use whenever you want?

Hetzner_OL · January 2018

@vfuse - Thanks! Yes the host is visible in the traceroute. Also, the scheduler tries to prevent placing customer servers on the same host. --Katie, Marketing

jiiikoo · January 2018

@Hetzner_OL Can you enable automatic payment anywhere? Didn't see a option to do that. Also, I sent a ticket/suggestion via the dashboard about the bw usage I asked you about earlier. Hope I get a response.

roland12 · January 2018

What is the cpu model for each node?

budi1413 · January 2018

@Hetzner_OL said:

@jiiikoo said:
If I understood this correctly, the 20TB/m is for only outgoing bandwidth? My counter on the "network" tab in the dash is showing 0,023/TB of 20TB usage, but according to MTRG I've only used about 3GB of outgoing, rest is incoming.

Could you please send a support request about this via Cloud Console? As a member of the marketing team, I don't have access to some systems. Thanks for your understanding. --Katie, Marketing

But you're english teacher.

tenpera · January 2018

@Hetzner_OL would you add Debian 7 or 8 64bit to Available Images?

PeachBlossom · January 2018

@Lee said:

PeachBlossom said: I was expecting higher disk read / write. @_@

https://serverscope.io/trials/GPaQ

Explain to us what you're using it for that it does not meet your expectation?

Oh no, that's not what I meant.

I do agree with everyone else that it's fast, but since it's using NVME drives, I was expecting similar numbers to VPS from VMHaus or something, lol.

Lee · January 2018

PeachBlossom said: I was expecting similar numbers to VPS from VMHaus or something, lol.

Maybe when things calm down, there will be so much testing going on, but there are other variables of course. Not to take anything away from VMH but I suspect Hetzner are getting hit quite hard at the minute with this launch.

Junkless · January 2018

spun one up one instance. excellent performance. The panel is simple and clean. Loving it so far. Now just need a project where I can use it, lol.

willie · January 2018

6qe said:

I just tried on a fresh debian-2gb-nbg1-dc3-1 box

apt-get update

apt-get upgrade
apt-get install build-essential

can't see any errors?

If you ran it as root, then /sbin would be on PATH so the install would work. Try "echo $PATH" to make sure. What doesn't work is:

apt-get install sudo
[login as regular user, so /sbin is not on PATH]
sudo apt-get install build-essential

This works on all the other debian systems that I've operated. Until I figure out exactly what's going on, I'm not going to state outright that the Hetzner image is broken, but it's certainly odd that it acts differently from everything else. Some web searches show other people encountered the issue some years back, when the sudo package changed how it sets the path:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639841

Maybe something changed in upstream debian very recently, with Hetzner's image having the change but DO's not having it? I'll keep looking into it.

willie · January 2018

@Hetzner_OL a few other suggestions/observations:

1) In the cloud console it took a while to figure out that clicking the hostname brought up a bunch of new control options. A caption or "manage" link might help with that. I almost posted here that I didn't see a way to reinstall the OS on an instance, but it's there in that other screen.

2) I don't see a way (don't know if there is one) to delete a server without releasing its IP address, so the IP can be used on another server later (basically, used as a floating IP). It would be nice to have this. If you try the Scaleway console, it has such a feature.

3) speaking of floating IPs it would be awesome to have a multicast network between NBG and FLK to support high-availability services. I get the impression that if you create a floating IP at NBG and then assign it to an FLK server, traffic still gets routed through NBG, and vice versa. If that is right (maybe it isn't), then things can fail if an entire location goes offline, as has happened to OVH more than once.

willie · January 2018

Junkless said: Now just need a project where I can use it, lol.

You can join the LET Distributed Idling Project. Most of us are members already, so become part of the in-group!

angstrom · January 2018

@willie said:

6qe said:

I just tried on a fresh debian-2gb-nbg1-dc3-1 box

apt-get update

apt-get upgrade
apt-get install build-essential

can't see any errors?

If you ran it as root, then /sbin would be on PATH so the install would work. Try "echo $PATH" to make sure. What doesn't work is:
apt-get install sudo
[login as regular user, so /sbin is not on PATH]
sudo apt-get install build-essential
This works on all the other debian systems that I've operated. Until I figure out exactly what's going on, I'm not going to state outright that the Hetzner image is broken, but it's certainly odd that it acts differently from everything else. Some web searches show other people encountered the issue some years back, when the sudo package changed how it sets the path:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639841

Maybe something changed in upstream debian very recently, with Hetzner's image having the change but DO's not having it? I'll keep looking into it.

Ah, you were using sudo. I had understood you to be installing as root.

Lee · January 2018

willie said: 2) I don't see a way (don't know if there is one) to delete a server without releasing its IP address, so the IP can be used on another server later (basically, used as a floating IP). It would be nice to have this. If you try the Scaleway console, it has such a feature.

They do have floating IP's, 1.20 per month per IP I think it is.

Yeah €1 plus vat.

angstrom · January 2018

@tenpera said:
@Hetzner_OL would you add Debian 7 or 8 64bit to Available Images?

If they're not there already, they won't be added at this point.

(Debian 7 is EOL in May. Security support for Debian 8 as offered by the Debian security team also ends in May. At that point, the Debian LTS team takes over.)

fLoo · January 2018

HOLY F*CK

root@www101 /root # wget -4 -O /dev/null http://speedtest.wtnet.de/files/5000mb.bin
--2018-01-25 19:50:13--  http://speedtest.wtnet.de/files/5000mb.bin
Resolving speedtest.wtnet.de (speedtest.wtnet.de)... 213.209.106.95
Connecting to speedtest.wtnet.de (speedtest.wtnet.de)|213.209.106.95|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 5242880000 (4.9G) [application/octet-stream]
Saving to: ‘/dev/null’

/dev/null                                      100%[===================================================================================================>]   4.88G   294MB/s    in 19s

2018-01-25 19:50:32 (265 MB/s) - ‘/dev/null’ saved [5242880000/5242880000]

Speedtest from our corporate speedtest in Hamburg.
2+ GBit is pretty ... nice

angstrom · January 2018

@willie said: If you ran it as root, then /sbin would be on PATH so the install would work. Try "echo $PATH" to make sure. What doesn't work is:

apt-get install sudo

[login as regular user, so /sbin is not on PATH]
sudo apt-get install build-essential

This works on all the other debian systems that I've operated. Until I figure out exactly what's going on, I'm not going to state outright that the Hetzner image is broken, but it's certainly odd that it acts differently from everything else. Some web searches show other people encountered the issue some years back, when the sudo package changed how it sets the path:

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639841

Maybe something changed in upstream debian very recently, with Hetzner's image having the change but DO's not having it? I'll keep looking into it.

I looked into this briefly (I seldom use sudo myself), and indeed, /etc/sudoers on Debian was changed at some point to include the various sbin/ directories in the path of sudo, so on a fresh installation, there shouldn't be an issue.

However, if an older /etc/sudoers that didn't include the various sbin/ directories in the path of sudo was modified at some point, then it wouldn't have been overwritten by a later update (and so still wouldn't include the various sbin/ directories in the path of sudo).

What's puzzling is why Hetzner's Debian 9 image doesn't include a newer /etc/sudoers (which contains the sbin/ directories in the path of sudo). It's almost as though /etc/sudoers were copied from an older template ... but who knows.

svmo · January 2018

IP's seems to be somewhat sticky ...
Deleting and recreating an instance even after a night's sleep., I get the same IP
Have observed it in both datacenters ...

Neoon · January 2018

hmmm.... interesting would be, to see if Hetzner now comes close to these cheap dedis, if it would be worth it, to move it into the cloud and deploy on demand.

Mostly that was more expensive, did not made any calculations yet.

sureiam · January 2018

@Hetzner_OL said:

@sureiam said:
At least give customers in nations with low fraud rates alternative options.

We tend to err on the side of being cautious. So we reject potential customers who look suspicious for whatever reason, not to be mean to you or anything. You're probably a perfectly lovely person. But as a company with low prices, we have to be very, very careful to try to prevent as much abuse/fraud as possible, even with customers from "nations with low fraud rates". We have an obligation to protect other people on the Internet. But I'll pass your comments on to my colleagues nonetheless. --Katie, Marketing

As I had noted using alternative forms of verification vs blanket ID from all. a
At the very least responding to your potential customers that request alternative options. My email still hasn't gotten a response going on 3 days now.

You must understand ID cards are ripe for identify theft or even worse immigration. Can you honestly tell me your systems are more secure than EQUIFAX? A multi billion dollar company? What do you do with that data? Keep it on hand for all eternity? Keep it on hand till one day the government comes in and asks for all of them to be given at once? And as a foreign citizen what course of action would we have vs you if all this data was taken by a breach?

Do you request this also from your local customers as well? What would it take to be considered a trustworthy customer that doesn't need to give their a copy of their government issued ID for you to retain till it's breached?

On that note are you even allowed to retain government issued IDs? Are you using the proper systems and data retention?

Considering the German government requirements for invoicing I can only the retention of government documents must be very strict.

How about you tell us that information before just asking for it.

WebDude · January 2018

@Hetzner_OL Any information when these VPS servers will be available in Tuusula, Finland DC?

Lee · January 2018

sureiam said: Can you honestly tell me your systems are more secure than EQUIFAX?

Not sure if you are being serious...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41575188

Falzo · January 2018

sureiam said: What do you do with that data? Keep it on hand for all eternity?

man, she already answered those questions.

@Hetzner_OL said:

@budi1413 said:
What is account verification? Is it needed?

Are you asking if we check your ID? Yes, if you are a new customer with us, we will request your ID. We do this to prevent abuse and fake orders. The data is deleted soon after we use it to confirm your identification. After your first order, we don't ask for IDs anymore. --Katie, Marketing

as for the german laws you are right. those are strict about handling IDs and I am confident that hetzner will comply to it.

also I am pretty sure they won't request high resolution scans or whatever, more likely a greyscale copy might suffice as long as it is readable and confirms your address or whatever... you need to give that data away as billing information anyway?

and after all... if you don't like giving away a copy of your ID that way, then most likely hetzner simply is not the provider you want to go with. no one is forcing you into any contract with them.

TL;DR; don't like it, don't buy it.

lurch · January 2018

thought i'd try one out Nuremberg 2GB

-------------------------------------------------
 nench.sh v2017.06.01 -- https://git.io/nench.sh
 benchmark timestamp:    2018-01-25 20:06:13 UTC
-------------------------------------------------

Processor:    Intel Xeon Processor (Skylake, IBRS)
CPU cores:    1
Frequency:    2099.998 MHz
RAM:          1.9G
Swap:         -
Kernel:       Linux 4.9.0-5-amd64 x86_64

Disks:
sda   19.1G  HDD

CPU: SHA256-hashing 500 MB
    2.859 seconds
CPU: bzip2-compressing 500 MB
    4.884 seconds
CPU: AES-encrypting 500 MB
    1.114 seconds

ioping: seek rate
    min/avg/max/mdev = 33.7 us / 59.6 us / 6.27 ms / 29.0 us
ioping: sequential read speed
    generated 24.1 k requests in 5.00 s, 5.88 GiB, 4.81 k iops, 1.18 GiB/s

dd: sequential write speed
    1st run:    421.52 MiB/s
    2nd run:    312.81 MiB/s
    3rd run:    288.01 MiB/s
    average:    340.78 MiB/s

IPv4 speedtests
    your IPv4:    

    Cachefly CDN:         94.96 MiB/s
    Leaseweb (NL):        157.45 MiB/s
    Softlayer DAL (US):   7.07 MiB/s
    Online.net (FR):      60.20 MiB/s
    OVH BHS (CA):         2.70 MiB/s

IPv6 speedtests
    your IPv6:   

    Leaseweb (NL):        95.27 MiB/s
    Softlayer DAL (US):   4.25 MiB/s
    Online.net (FR):      56.00 MiB/s
    OVH BHS (CA):         3.46 MiB/s
-------------------------------------------------

This could tempt me away from netcup and drop my polish server as well. If there was add on block storage even better.

willie · January 2018

sureiam said: . Can you honestly tell me your systems are more secure than EQUIFAX? A multi billion dollar company?

I would expect Hetzner is far more secure than Equifax. if you looked at the news stories after the Equifax breach, you'd know that Equifax's security operation was completely incompetent.

sureiam said: ? What do you do with that data? Keep it on hand for all eternity?

They have said multiple times here and in their docs that they delete the info after checking it. I think they may have even said that German law requires them to do so.

sureiam said: What would it take to be considered a trustworthy customer that doesn't need to give their a copy of their government issued ID for you to retain till it's breached?

Incorporate a business and order the servers under the corporation's name instead of your own, presenting business documentation as needed. You'll probably be doing that anyway if you're buying a lot of servers, since most large customers are likely to be companies unless they're doing something sketchy like mining.

If you're after just a few servers, the reality is that Hetzner just doesn't need you as a customer that much, and since they have low margins it's not worth their while to make special accomodations for you. Your basic alternative is to choose another host.

willie · January 2018

Lee said: They do have floating IP's, 1.20 per month per IP I think it is.

Yes, there is a button you can click that says "I'd like to buy a floating IP". But when you launch a server, it comes with an IP that is apparently non-floating. So I'm suggesting that the IP's that come with servers should also float, so you can delete the server while keeping the IP for later use, move the IP from one server to another etc. That's how Scaleway works and it's a nice feature.

On Scaleway you can even launch a server with no external IP, so it is not connected to the internet. You can only get to it from the internal network, which saves you some IP costs and also helps the security of backend services. Scaleway's 3 euro/month servers are billed as 1 euro for the VM instance, 1 euro for the IP address, and 1 euro for the 50GB disk allocation. If you launch with no IP then it's just 2 euros. There's no way in their web console to launch with no disk but I think you can approximate it through the API. I could see usefulness in doing that, with a template that set up the instance as an NFS client or a pure compute server with a ramdisk or whatever.

willie · January 2018

.

asb · January 2018

@asb said:
The Hetzner->Linode London transfer finally completed: 2h2m, average 139KB/s. mtr from this VM looks like this:

$ mtr --report-wide speed.hetzner.de Start: Thu Jan 25 13:54:16 2018 HOST: localhost Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- 2a01:7e00::8678:acff:fe5a:1a41 0.0% 10 0.9 1.0 0.9 1.7 0.0 2.|-- 2a01:7e00:7777:9::1 0.0% 10 1.1 1.2 0.8 2.4 0.3 3.|-- ae1-0.lon10.core-backbone.com 0.0% 10 1.7 1.6 1.5 1.8 0.0 4.|-- xe-1-0-4-2077.fra10.core-backbone.com 10.0% 10 15.4 14.4 13.7 15.4 0.4 5.|-- 2a01:4a0:1338:3::2 0.0% 10 14.5 14.4 14.0 15.3 0.0 6.|-- core1.fra.hetzner.com 20.0% 10 14.5 14.5 14.4 14.7 0.0 7.|-- core11.fra.hetzner.com 0.0% 10 17.4 17.5 17.4 18.4 0.0 8.|-- juniper3.dc1.nbg1.hetzner.com 10.0% 10 17.4 17.5 17.4 17.7 0.0 9.|-- speedtest.your-server.de 10.0% 10 17.3 17.3 17.2 17.5 0.0

To update on this, it's now much better to London. Tried again, transferred http://speed.hetzner.de/1GB.bin in 19s, 53.6MB/s.

I'm even seeing improved results to Linode's Newark location, though the transfer speed is all over the place ranging erratically from 300KB/s to 7MB/s. Ended up taking 6 minutes, averaging 2.78MB/s. By contrast, the 1GB test file from Vultr's Frankfurt location took 35s, averaging 28.5MB/s.

Is anyone else seeing similar? Does anyone have a public test file on a Hetzner VPS?

If you'd like to try downloading from Clouvider, feel free to use http://185.42.223.54/1GB.bin

ebony · January 2018

@tenpera said:
@Hetzner_OL would you add Debian 7 or 8 64bit to Available Images?

said it once already

use the recuse system

Lee · January 2018

willie said: Yes, there is a button you can click that says "I'd like to buy a floating IP". But when you launch a server, it comes with an IP that is apparently non-floating. So I'm suggesting that the IP's that come with servers should also float, so you can delete the server while keeping the IP for later use, move the IP from one server to another etc. That's how Scaleway works and it's a nice feature.

Yup, apologies, I was playing around with floating IP's and for some reason thought you could do that.

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