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But that too ^^
What happens if I don't pay my VM invoice for 45 days @Steven_F ?
All true, but irrelevant.
This situation is not much different than the one with MCH a short time ago.
You buy an $18/year service and expect it to be infallible. It's not. It might go POOF at any time, for any reason.
If you're going to deploy important services on an $18/year server then you need to build redundancy -- or accept the consequences.
If you want an infallible service then pay $30/month or more and bitch like hell when they fail to deliver.
Cheap doesn't mean that provider have rights to give a SHIT service.
Have you ever heard of BandwagonHost/XvmLabs? They are even cheaper and still they're stable than some host over there.
What "SHIT service"?
If a 512MB with SSD, stable box, great performance, minimal downtime, good support for $9/year, minus this small hiccup is considered a "SHIT" service, then your expectation is way too high.
Finally my Lightning is UP but must with another Subnet..
after 3 hours up, i open my site and suddenly changed into Super Micro Login lol..
reboot and normal again..
Right, but that's not how you measure the quality of a service. What really matters is how things are handled when they inevitably do go wrong. Shit happens everywhere, and you can tell the real quality of a host by how they handle failure.
Bullshit. You have been sold a service, and it should be delivered as advertised. Whether that is feasible for the price charged is the provider's concern, not that of the customer. If you can't sell a sustainable service for $18/year, don't sell a service for $18/year.
This is the point to be noted and sticked on top.
But.. it was delivered as advertised?
It is delivered as advertised. Nowhere in the advertising is there a promise of infallibility or 100% service delivery.
Sustainability is a business concept and is different than technical performance and reliability. A service can be technically awesome but unsustainable at the offered price, or it can be mediocre yet financially sustainable. Or it can be mediocre and unsustainable.
I don't know if BoltVM is sustainable. I know nothing about his business planning, capital, income and expenditures, etc. How someone else runs his business is none of my business and I'm not going to speculate about it. I'm buying a product/service, not making a business investment.
And as a consumer I try to balance price and performance, whether it's a lowend VM or a new pair of boots, and adjust my expectations accordingly. If I buy a pair of $10 bargain-bin boots my expectations aren't high. But I may be pleasantly surprised
I received an email said:
But I found the outgoing network stop working, after I saved main IP in the control panel and rebooted, it works again.
@hiphiphip0 which OS?
@hostingwizard_net Debian wheezy
@hiphiphip0 Thanks a lot, it worked for me too. Same OS.
@Steven_F write a white paper "how to ruin business for not paying due invoices in time"!
@alexvolk pls
have to say, no problem here, service has been idling at all, and I wouldn't expect a lot at the given price. so no problem at all.
but 45 days overdue on an business essential bill? nope. should not even need a reminder, to know when to pay $1200 again... so given excuse seems very weak.
hope you can recover from that impact and keep up the work to build reputation again though ;-)
I'm not referring to BoltVM specifically, nor do I say it should be infallible. The statement of yours I was responding to, is much, much wider than that, and seems to indicate you can't have any expectations at all. That is what my statement refers to.
Again, I'm not talking specifically about BoltVM, I'm stating it as a general rule of thumb. Too many people have a tendency to say you can't really expect anything at a low price, as if that somehow justifies a host running their business unsustainably (which, despite being a 'business concept'. does affect customers).
Sure. But if I buy a pair of $10 bargain-bin boots and the soles have fallen off before I have even had them on my feet, then I will sure as hell go back and make use of my warranty.
"Works as advertised" is still a requirement. For boots that means you can at least wear them for a while, for hosting that means it'll be up at least enough to run a service off it; ie. you are able to use it for the intended purpose. If it falls below that standard, effectively making the purchased item or service useless, then that is not "as advertised".
Again, not remarking about BoltVM specifically - I haven't used them, and don't have nearly enough data to draw a conclusion about them. Just pointing out that expectations are still (and should be) non-zero, no matter how cheap.
Personally im not too fussed with this situation, my VM's have been online and working for the last 10 months. The longest step to get everything back working were the 10 minutes it took me to remember my login to update the A records. 20 minutes in total once I updated mysql and the rest. Not terrible by any means.
I am getting sick and tired of people which say you cannot have good service at low price.
Of course you can, but you MUST have your brains at hand when you make the purchase.
Important service (not a toy/freebie support VPS) you setup redundancy. Instead of buying 1 expensive service and have no redundancy, buy 3 cheap ones and have redundancy. EVERYTHING can and WILL fail, be it for long or short time, if your business cannot handle that, there is no excuse to not have redundancy, even if you go with AWS.
Unimportant service (toy, Tor, your cat pictures, backup of backup, etc) you just get the cheapest offer that works and hope wont go down. If it does, not a big problem. In this case you do need to look a bit for reviews.
You can get good prices for stable and old providers which wont be gone tomorrow, have their own IP space, are registered businesses, have proven records for years, and, albeit nobody is perfect and everyone has bleeps now and then, you know what to expect, meaning that your service will be available around the 99.9% mark.
You can get even cheaper things from newer and/or unstable providers if you really do not care for uptime (running Tor/freenet or other things which have themselves a built-in redundance and you can move around to the next provider without any headache). In my view, the time lost to (re)setup things is not worth it, so I pay a couple of bucks a year more for this convenience+read reviews and follow industry trends, but for some people 2 bucks are 2 bucks and they have plenty of time and need to learn more, so, they can opt for the dirt cheap service which may surprise them.
I can understand everyone, except those that buy an expensive service because their business cannnot go through downtime but do not setup redundancy.
oh pls
General "you". Not personal "you". There's a reason I said "the provider", and not "BoltVM".
How about in future LEB/LET offer posts/threads that the provider has to mention the ownership of their IPs. (direct from arin etc... leased from data center, leased from ip leasing agent.)
That would be your rule of thumb. Mine is different. I've stolen it from the Boy Scouts:
Be Prepared
If you buy a pair of boots and the soles fall off before you wear them, then you need to be a more discriminating shopper and examine the goods more closely
Same goes for when buying a VM.
Ah, you're not a client, you don't run a business, so this is just an academic exercise for you. That's fine, but I won't argue or discuss it further with you. Cheers!
boltvm more like buttvm amirite
No. It's primarily the responsibility of the vendor. They are putting obviously unfit goods onto the market.
Outrageous
But its your job as the person handing your hard earned cash over to check it works. I am not going to go into my local store and hand over $50,000 for a chocolate bar because I think more money is going to fix things, im going to check that its what they said I would get and hand over however much they want. Same applies here, if you dont check the product you are getting, then its your fault when you get screwed.
There's a very good reason for the strong consumer protection laws in the EU; you as a consumer are often simply not able to determine the quality of a good. You are not privy to its production process, to where the costs are cut, to what materials exactly were used. You can guess at best, and as many quality issues are not obviously visible, your guess is going to be wrong very often.
And that is exactly why the vendors are held responsible for living up to standards. Because they do know those things, and they can predict the longevity. It's why, at least in NL, you can return any product to the store you bought it from if it fails unreasonably quickly and receive a replacement or (gift card) refund, by law, no matter how cheap it was.
The same applies here. The provider is knowledgeable about how the business is run, and whether his plans are sustainable or not. The customer is not. It's up to the provider to not deliver services they cannot provide, regardless of the price.
And in Spain as well (I also think it's European-wide). And if you ordered remotely (internet, phone) you get extra protection - you can request a refund within X days without any kind of explanation or it being partial, even contracts for services, you can reverse it within that time. You must get your full payment refunded.