New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
Inception Hosting - PayPal subscription issue
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Go to his home and tell him.
at the prices we pay for leb's i cant understand how they make any money at all. everything has to be so automated for it to work for the provider. as soon as they have to do anything it is costing them money. refunding you $7 in all honestly probably costs them at least half that in time. time to read a ticket. investigate the history. look at dates. check money was received. take action. i think the no refund policy on a leb is completely understandable. i pay my leb's annually for 2 reasons - 1 its cheaper and 2 its cheaper because i only have to do it once. if i lost the $60 they wouldnt get my business again but i probably wouldnt spend more than 15mins trying to get it back either.
+1 that was your best argument. you paid for an additional period of service after you had cancelled that same service. the law is most likely on your side in this despite the part of the TOS that says no refunds. however the law also allows the provider to recover the reasonable costs incurred on their behalf in processing the refund that was due in no part to a fault or failure of the provider. inceptions costs in this matter are $25. now the law is no longer your friend.
Well, your TOS does that
Any provider has that kind of terms I should always avoid. But the whole thing, allow me again quotes another member's words:
@jrdai so you don't want to answer the questions or come to any arrangement then, OK I will consider you a happy bunny.
Oh yes, I'm definitely so misled when I don't even host with LES and Inception.
Please, tell us witch is your country and provide us with the excact law that calls that attitude as fraud. If you don't, then, you are lying just to blackmail the provider.
From almost all other people's experience here, their quality and ethic code for doing business is a way better than most of other providers here and outside of LET/LEB. Just read reviews here, on WHT and on other sites, too, or the polls here: Always to the top providers with many votes:
http://lowendbox.com/blog/top-provider-poll-2013-q4-the-results/
http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/16498/top-20-providers-2013-q3-poll
So, what is your point? You want to pay another person for YOUR MISTAKE? Tell us a single time that a legit business did it for you (with proofs), and I will refund you with my money instead of Inc.H.!!!
Signature:
A very happy client of Inc.Hosting (that even if their billing system marked as fraud initially, with the will of the owner to clear things up he earned a customer for more than 8 months now with three excellent services)
OK. Let's say that a customer forgot to cancel his or her paypal subscription and pays a provider one extra payment. If he or she had explicitly cancelled service with the provider before that payment was made, then the business contract with that provider is considered TERMINATED at that exact time point, and NONE of the provider's TOS would continue to apply after that.
Even if another recurring payment is made by paypal afterwards due to the customer forgetting to cancel the subscription, it is AFTER the termination of the contract and the customer should be fully refunded IMHO.
Some related discussions on the web:
http://www.askdavetaylor.com/cancel-recurring-paypal-subscription-payment/
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=b85fafb3b9992422ea0854f4f09fc16c&t=1131952&page=2
In addition, from what I know, cancelling a PayPal subscription can be done either from the provider's end, or from the client's end (correct me if I am wrong). Therefore, EITHER party can initiate this action. If a provider does not have measures in place to automatically cancel that PayPal subscription upon termination of service with a client, he or she cannot blame the client for this.
An WHMCS module IS available to do this exact task:
https://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?42253-Automatically-cancel-clients-PayPal-subscription
tl;dr For payments after the explicit termination of contract, I think the provider have no right to keep them and none of his or her TOS would apply at that point of time. That payment should be fully refunded to the customer.
Meanwhile jrdai probably hasn't bothered to cancel his subscription yet, so he will send another payment to Inception Hosting the next month. Expect another similar thread then.
If you cancel a service, you don't cancel your subscription with the provider. Just, look client area in most providers here: You will terminate a vps but you can login to your client account and see the terminated vps and all of your invoices. Or, you can have more than one vps and see the terminated boxes in WHMCS side by side with the live ones. You no more have a business relationship with the provider, only if you cancel the entire registration and cannot login to the client area.
A provider won't know manually if you have one or more services with him (e.g. LES, domain registration an add-on, a yearly paid IP or else). He will know that you are no longer a client only if you unsubscribe entirely.
From the TOS:
in the event that you choose to close your account any credit gained through overpayment will be held for 7 days and can be refunded **unless **made by subscription payment, no refunds are possible if you have overpaid due to failure to manage your own payment subscriptionthat is in the TOS that was agreed upon when signing up. As the account credit is counted towards ANY service, active or future, that part is bound by your account, not the specific service.
I'm sure @AnthonySmith will refund, if the OP is willing to pay the administrative fee.
You know,@hwdsl2 might be right legally. Contract terminated, ToS no longer applies. It might be similar to money sent to the wrong account in a bank, the receiver does not keep them, even if he sells something and even if the sender bought something in the past from the receiver. However, returning the money should not be in the yard of the receiver, the payment for processing that, must be taken from the sender, the one which did the mistake.
When I was working for a big bank in Romania as a chief clearing officer, one day, the national bank performed a transfer of my bank to another bank twice. They were working manually then and you were still going there with the papers and someone did the transfer again not noticing a coleague did it before. Nobody noticed until the end of the day when all transactions were summed and statements arrived at the participating banks. It was a huge amount, my wage for 25000 months, it took, of course, another business day for the transfer back to happen, so the money were int he wrong bank over night and our arbitrators placed money they didnt have and the national bank is giving an enormous fine for that. Our directors had no intention to upset the people at the national bank asking them to admit their guilt, so they tried to impose the fine and the interest for overnight emergency draft on me. I refused, so, they had to negotiate with the national bank people how to share blame. They reached an agreement to forfeit the fine and the bank to eat up the costs for 1 day overdraft interest.
At no point in time, anybody came with the idea the receiving bank to support any part of the cost. The money were simply taken back without any fee or fine, they even got the interest for it from the national bank to keep them silent about it. Would have been a big fuss to justify having money in national bank without interest so they gave the lowest possible and moved on. Even if I would have given them 2 times the papers, even if it was my fault, the receiving bank could have never be asked to pay anything for my mistake, nor could they be asked to pay for the national bank's mistake.
Anthony might have to send the money back legally, but all costs with processing should be paid by the sender, if Anthony decides his time costs more than the 7$, there is nothing the sender can do about it.
So, there is a new light over the matter, but the end is the same, Anthony can decide if he wishes to refund or not.
Are you still riding on this shit?
Once I forgot to cancel my paypal subscription with Inception and paid for a month I didn't want then I cried for a bit while I thought about the cup of coffee I'd have to miss this month but then I grew hair on my balls and manned-up then used credit for something else and was happy again and now I don't drink coffee anymore either.
True story.
For clarity, a Paypal subscription isn't between between you and the provider. It's always been between you and Paypal, hence ToS does not legally apply directly either way. And because Paypal doesn't restrict you from randomly sending money to anyone you want, it's your responsibility to terminate the subscription.
The closest the ToS ever comes to this matter is in dispute resolution under their buyer protection, which to be honest, you would lose considering you 1) force sent a payment after cancellation of services, 2) would otherwise incur a penalty on the business and 3) the provider has provided credit which meets Paypal's obligation under the buyer protection clauses. And unless you're some VIP member, Paypal would not eat the transaction costs on your behalf so even if you insist on a reversal, you'll end up bearing the cost of that, which is not insignificant.
Yeah, careless and negligent people is everywhere and they are reasonable and educated people...
@Maounique I think your example it's not suitable for this case, it's a banking system..
To OP, just pay the administration fee to Inception Hosting, due to additional works they must face because your negligence and ignorance and your unprofessional attitude on manage your paypal account. Win-win solution.
I see around 10-$20 administration on some hosting, maybe Inception Hosting has more or less.
And you can get your refund then
I dream of a day when people will take responsibility for their actions and not blame and publicly trash someone else because of their own irresponsibility.
Or he can not pay the administration fee and save money?
I love you. Inspirational.
well, i learn something from this thread, will check my paypay for unknown/unrealize subscription
@jrdai, find peace.. i know what u mean and probably doing the same if it's happened to me.
I cancelled the service properly (at Inception's way) around 9 days before all this happened. You've made a very good and strong point. I didn't realize that. Thanks mate!
I would never have a problem with that.
@jrdai, find peace.. i know what u mean and probably doing the same if it's happened to me.
Oh, you definitely need to check that. 'cause you never know who's gonna be the next Inception.
It's not a 'very good and strong point' at all, it's actually irrelevant. You sending a payment has no relationship to the state of your services.
Actually, that should be 'you never know who's gonna be the next jrdai'. It was 100% your error after all.
Come on, he's just trolling us
April trolls?
Probably.
Just to set one final point here, my TOS have absolutely nothing to do with any legal agreement in this instance, the agreement is made between the user and paypal, the user asks paypal to send money, no one takes it.
I simply have terms in place to let you know what will happen as a direct result of your own inaction, which is more than many others have.
You've taken other people's money again their wishes. I feel I was robbed, and it seems legal, since they've told you they are gonna take it.
All your arguments count on that term, which even it is legal at the moment in your country, does not mean it is right and it will continue to be legal in future.
A fair contract protects both parties. That term ONLY protects yourself. Maybe that's your low-end-spirit.
Those unscrupulous providers think they are smart, setting up tricky terms that may against you some day, are the ones I don't mess with. Do you?