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Hetzner - Traffic Use Notice - unlimited != unlimited

12357…22

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  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    Not morally right business practice though.
    See how many elders are rejected by the health insurance companies.

    It is very moral and just for a provider to say - I am losing money on this contract, I will honor it until its conclusion, but its my right to not renew it, I am not obligated to lose money on any customer not in a VALID contractual period.

    In regards to elders- people do get denied insurance prior to enrolling in a plan (with some extensive legal exclusions), however once in a plan and they pay on time, they keep the plan. However, in America, the insurance providers have a loophole in that they usually terminate plans yearly and make a new one. The reason high risk people do not lose their insurance is that there is a law regarding preexisting conditions and prior creditable coverage. So your example really isnt related to the current discussion

    What you say is from a business owner's point of view. From the society point of view, health insurance is to cover those who may be susceptible to diseases. If health insurance companies only choose those customers who are healthy, there is no point for this health insurance business in our society. And voters will elect politicians to ban this business. It is this simple.

    Hence the requirement for creditable coverage. If they have creditable coverage, they can not be excluded from being issued a new policy. However, it doesnt exclude/limit the price of the policy

  • letloverletlover Member
    edited July 2022

    @xrz said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: You are missing the point, they didn't lie about unlimited. You got EXACTLY what you signed up for- one month of unlimited bandwidth with your dedi. They got exactly what they offered, the right to stop doing business with you, after the contract ended. No lies, just hard core facts- no contract means ZERO protection and ZERO OBLIGATION to keep you as a client. You agreed to the short contract, you get the results of no more contract

    No, they lied.

    unlimited != 250 TB
    is the same?

    Only 70 TB/m difference to be perfect. Hetzner, learn from Mercedes-Benz.

    Thanked by 1xrz
  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member
    edited July 2022

    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract.

    What you fail to grasp is- without a valid contract, they are not obligated to do anything for you at all, but they gave you exactly what you contracted for- you can not say otherwise

    Thanked by 5Erisa adly iKeyZ TODO PulsedMedia
  • xrzxrz Member
    edited July 2022

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    No, its a warning we exceed the fake unlimited and if we do exceed the fake unlimited once again then byebye (termination).

    What they sell is a LIE.

    Thanked by 1TODO
  • MatthewMMatthewM Member
    edited July 2022

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    Makes no difference as the product is advertised aka Guaranteed Unlimited 1Gbit port.

    Kicking people off for following the offer is false advertising. Simple as.

    Thanked by 3xrz TODO Obelous
  • letloverletlover Member

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    Not morally right business practice though.
    See how many elders are rejected by the health insurance companies.

    It is very moral and just for a provider to say - I am losing money on this contract, I will honor it until its conclusion, but its my right to not renew it, I am not obligated to lose money on any customer not in a VALID contractual period.

    In regards to elders- people do get denied insurance prior to enrolling in a plan (with some extensive legal exclusions), however once in a plan and they pay on time, they keep the plan. However, in America, the insurance providers have a loophole in that they usually terminate plans yearly and make a new one. The reason high risk people do not lose their insurance is that there is a law regarding preexisting conditions and prior creditable coverage. So your example really isnt related to the current discussion

    What you say is from a business owner's point of view. From the society point of view, health insurance is to cover those who may be susceptible to diseases. If health insurance companies only choose those customers who are healthy, there is no point for this health insurance business in our society. And voters will elect politicians to ban this business. It is this simple.

    Hence the requirement for creditable coverage. If they have creditable coverage, they can not be excluded from being issued a new policy. However, it doesnt exclude/limit the price of the policy

    This user is creditable in his case actually. He bought his Hetzner dedi assuming it is unlimited 1 gpbs = 320 TB/m. We as Hetnzer dedi renters all assume the same way. If Hetnzer can not fulfill this claim, then customers may consider Hetzner just another ordinary business, instead of something really exciting and disrupting the big brothers like AWS, Azure, Oracle, and GC. It is the difference if you want to be a hacker or a just another joe programmer in a big company.

    Thanked by 2xrz sliix
  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    @xrz said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    No, its a warning we exceed the fake unlimited and if we do exceed the fake unlimited once again then byebye (termination).

    What they sell is a LIE.

    Termination at end of contract. no LIEs, just no offer to continue

    Thanked by 6xrz mrTom RapToN iKeyZ DanSummer PulsedMedia
  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider

    Kinda surprised they're doing this now, they've always been very generous in terms of bandwidth limits.

    Thanked by 1xrz
  • xrzxrz Member

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: Termination at end of contract. no LIEs, just no offer to continue

    Once again, does unlimited = 250 TB ?

  • letloverletlover Member

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract.

    What you fail to grasp is- without a valid contract, they are not obligated to do anything for you at all, but they gave you exactly what you contracted for- you can not say otherwise

    Man. You don't think about Hetzner's fame and creditability? Some brands are worthy billions of dollars. Think about branding.

  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member
    edited July 2022

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    Not morally right business practice though.
    See how many elders are rejected by the health insurance companies.

    It is very moral and just for a provider to say - I am losing money on this contract, I will honor it until its conclusion, but its my right to not renew it, I am not obligated to lose money on any customer not in a VALID contractual period.

    In regards to elders- people do get denied insurance prior to enrolling in a plan (with some extensive legal exclusions), however once in a plan and they pay on time, they keep the plan. However, in America, the insurance providers have a loophole in that they usually terminate plans yearly and make a new one. The reason high risk people do not lose their insurance is that there is a law regarding preexisting conditions and prior creditable coverage. So your example really isnt related to the current discussion

    What you say is from a business owner's point of view. From the society point of view, health insurance is to cover those who may be susceptible to diseases. If health insurance companies only choose those customers who are healthy, there is no point for this health insurance business in our society. And voters will elect politicians to ban this business. It is this simple.

    Hence the requirement for creditable coverage. If they have creditable coverage, they can not be excluded from being issued a new policy. However, it doesnt exclude/limit the price of the policy

    This user is creditable in his case actually. He bought his Hetzner dedi assuming it is unlimited 1 gpbs = 320 TB/m. We as Hetnzer dedi renters all assume the same way. If Hetnzer can not fulfill this claim, then customers may consider Hetzner just another ordinary business, instead of something really exciting and disrupting the big brothers like AWS, Azure, Oracle, and GC. It is the difference if you want to be a hacker or a just another joe programmer in a big company.

    Wrong use of the word creditable. Creditable coverage is coverage paid for within the insurance laws and regulations.

    In this case, the client has no legal expectation of a new contract. Hetzner may choose to offer, not offer a new contract based on the sunny skies, snow on the ground, standing on their heads during a meeting, or wife made Mr Hetzner cranky or the client just costs too damn much.

    The hacker diatribe is just stupid from a contract point of view

    Thanked by 2xrz PulsedMedia
  • xrzxrz Member
    edited July 2022

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: In this case, the client has no legal expectation of a new contract.

    We dont expect any new contract lol, we moving all the servers.

    We moved to hetzner because of unlimited.

    The thread is about unlimited != unlimited.

    And that hetzner lied to us.

    250 TB != unlimited.

    Understand?

  • letloverletlover Member
    edited July 2022

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    Not morally right business practice though.
    See how many elders are rejected by the health insurance companies.

    It is very moral and just for a provider to say - I am losing money on this contract, I will honor it until its conclusion, but its my right to not renew it, I am not obligated to lose money on any customer not in a VALID contractual period.

    In regards to elders- people do get denied insurance prior to enrolling in a plan (with some extensive legal exclusions), however once in a plan and they pay on time, they keep the plan. However, in America, the insurance providers have a loophole in that they usually terminate plans yearly and make a new one. The reason high risk people do not lose their insurance is that there is a law regarding preexisting conditions and prior creditable coverage. So your example really isnt related to the current discussion

    What you say is from a business owner's point of view. From the society point of view, health insurance is to cover those who may be susceptible to diseases. If health insurance companies only choose those customers who are healthy, there is no point for this health insurance business in our society. And voters will elect politicians to ban this business. It is this simple.

    Hence the requirement for creditable coverage. If they have creditable coverage, they can not be excluded from being issued a new policy. However, it doesnt exclude/limit the price of the policy

    This user is creditable in his case actually. He bought his Hetzner dedi assuming it is unlimited 1 gpbs = 320 TB/m. We as Hetnzer dedi renters all assume the same way. If Hetnzer can not fulfill this claim, then customers may consider Hetzner just another ordinary business, instead of something really exciting and disrupting the big brothers like AWS, Azure, Oracle, and GC. It is the difference if you want to be a hacker or a just another joe programmer in a big company.

    Wrong use of the word creditable. Creditable coverage is coverage paid for within the insurance laws and regulations.

    In this case, the client has no legal expectation of a new contract. Hetzner may choose to offer, not offer a new contract based on the sunny skies, snow on the ground, standing on their heads during a meeting, or wife made Mr Hetzner cranky or the client just costs too damn much.

    The hacker diatribe is just stupid from a contract point of view

    In marketing, a lot of things are not covered by law. Many business are legally right, yet go belly up soon. Learn from them. Hail Hetzner!

  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    @MatthewM said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    Makes no difference as the product is advertised aka Guaranteed Unlimited 1Gbit port.

    Kicking people off for following the offer is false advertising. Simple as.

    Didnt kick anyone off, they said it may change. If they don't renew or offer a new contract - they broke no promises

    Thanked by 2RapToN PulsedMedia
  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    Want stability- sign a long contract

    Thanked by 1PulsedMedia
  • letloverletlover Member

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @MatthewM said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    Makes no difference as the product is advertised aka Guaranteed Unlimited 1Gbit port.

    Kicking people off for following the offer is false advertising. Simple as.

    Didnt kick anyone off, they said it may change. If they don't renew or offer a new contract - they broke no promises

    You are wrong. Hetzner broke the promise of the unlimited 1 gpbs.

  • xrzxrz Member
    edited July 2022

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: Didnt kick anyone off, they said it may change. If they don't renew or offer a new contract - they broke no promises

    Now it is "drastically reduced" then oh 1GB its traffic per month is too much?
    Understand that they lied?

    "In order to continue hosting your servers with us, the traffic use will
    need to be drastically reduced. Please check your servers and confirm
    what is using so much traffic, making sure it is nothing abusive, and
    then find ways of reducing it.

    We will routinely check your traffic use. If we continue to see such a
    high amount, we may choose to cancel your contract. (Please see 2.7 of
    our Terms and conditions:
    https://www.hetzner.com/legal/terms-and-conditions)"

  • AstroAstro Member

    I am surprised @Hetzner_OL hasn't chipped in

    Thanked by 1xrz
  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    What legal promise have they broken as of this very moment?

  • MatthewMMatthewM Member

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @MatthewM said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    Makes no difference as the product is advertised aka Guaranteed Unlimited 1Gbit port.

    Kicking people off for following the offer is false advertising. Simple as.

    Didnt kick anyone off, they said it may change. If they don't renew or offer a new contract - they broke no promises

    They have warning that if the customer uses the bandwidth allowed as per the product pages, they will not renew. Aka use what you pay for and we will kick you off.

    That is false advertising.

    Thanked by 1xrz
  • xrzxrz Member
    edited July 2022

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: What legal promise have they broken as of this very moment?

    We dont care legal so why you always speak about legal

    All i was saying is that unlimited != unlimited at hetzner dedi

    So they lied

  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    @Astro said:
    I am surprised @Hetzner_OL hasn't chipped in

    Probably no reason to as this is an edge case and they really haven't been on LET a lot lately

    Thanked by 1xrz
  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @MatthewM said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    Makes no difference as the product is advertised aka Guaranteed Unlimited 1Gbit port.

    Kicking people off for following the offer is false advertising. Simple as.

    Didnt kick anyone off, they said it may change. If they don't renew or offer a new contract - they broke no promises

    You are wrong. Hetzner broke the promise of the unlimited 1 gpbs.

    The client has incurred zero alteration of service at this point, what legal promise did they break?

    Thanked by 1PulsedMedia
  • desfiredesfire Member

    @xrz said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: You are missing the point, they didn't lie about unlimited. You got EXACTLY what you signed up for- one month of unlimited bandwidth with your dedi. They got exactly what they offered, the right to stop doing business with you, after the contract ended. No lies, just hard core facts- no contract means ZERO protection and ZERO OBLIGATION to keep you as a client. You agreed to the short contract, you get the results of no more contract

    No, they lied.

    unlimited != 250 TB
    Or is the same for you?

    The limit is not 250TB, you surpassed 250TB several months, so if I, surpass 250TB for a month, they probably wouldn't do anything as it was just once or twice.

    Thanked by 1Erisa
  • xrzxrz Member

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: legal

    please can you stop your legal talking?

    this is about false advertising of unlimited

  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    @MatthewM said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @MatthewM said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    Makes no difference as the product is advertised aka Guaranteed Unlimited 1Gbit port.

    Kicking people off for following the offer is false advertising. Simple as.

    Didnt kick anyone off, they said it may change. If they don't renew or offer a new contract - they broke no promises

    They have warning that if the customer uses the bandwidth allowed as per the product pages, they will not renew. Aka use what you pay for and we will kick you off.

    That is false advertising.

    AKA use what you paid for, and we have decided you are one of our unprofitable customers, so we a declining to offer it to you again-SO THE PROVIDER DOESNT LOSE MORE MONEY.

    Thanked by 1PulsedMedia
  • MatthewMMatthewM Member

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @letlover said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:

    @MatthewM said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said:
    Your server is still unlimited- they are saying they may change that in the future, which is best accomplished by not offering a new contract for another month. No lies, just facts- you are still unlimited. Keep using it at a high level, they may determine you are an unprofitable client and not offer continued service with a new contract

    Makes no difference as the product is advertised aka Guaranteed Unlimited 1Gbit port.

    Kicking people off for following the offer is false advertising. Simple as.

    Didnt kick anyone off, they said it may change. If they don't renew or offer a new contract - they broke no promises

    You are wrong. Hetzner broke the promise of the unlimited 1 gpbs.

    The client has incurred zero alteration of service at this point, what legal promise did they break?

    Selling someone a service and than threatening them with cancellation for using it as specified. That is false advertising.

    Just the threat alone would be proof of that.

  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    @xrz said:

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: legal

    please can you stop your legal talking?

    this is about false advertising of unlimited

    Claiming false advertising is a legal claim that you are making

    Thanked by 1PulsedMedia
  • xrzxrz Member
    edited July 2022

    @ReadingIsFundamental said: Claiming false advertising is a legal claim that you are making

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18120500
    https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/general/traffic
    https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/ex43
    https://web.archive.org/web/20181002114731/https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php?title=Traffic/en&curid=2842&diff=30324&oldid=29871

    Where the f*ck is that limit?

    unlimited means unlimited and not 250 TB

  • ReadingIsFundamentalReadingIsFundamental Member

    And you received umlimited and are receiving unlimited during your contractually agreed term. The fact that you didn't sign a longer contract is your issue

    Thanked by 2iKeyZ PulsedMedia
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