New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
Comments
That's fair. But I guess its up to the adjudicators now.
Gordon got banned because he literally banned LET members in his ToS. That's hilarious but let's not digress.
@HostMantis should be banned for
3 strikes. And OUT.
From the Provider's Pool thread:
Translation: we had no clue we were losing money, thanks cPanel.
Translation: we decided to jump on the cPanel's bandwagon and hope everyone to be as bad at math as we are.
Translation: we have been reading "Business Plans For Dummies" for the last 10 years. Now our favorite book is "Everything Is F*Cked - A Book About Hope".
Translation: we got greedy to
foolget morecheapo LET membersclients withunrealistic discountsunbelievable deals, so we could make a money grab before deadpooling.Ah yep, that was it. Got a low attention span for that drama and terrible memory apparently. Yeah, so price change had nothing to do with ban.
Mine is $36.30 from good old $14.52 (70% coupon) for basic RS plan..
First Payment Amount: $13.99 USD
Recurring Amount: $52.46 USD
Shared account.
All cPanel's fault of course /s.
I've used this for uptime monitoring only (literally a landing page) but I'll ask for a remaining period refund and see what I can do just because of their lack of balls and transparency.
So; Contact HM -> PayPal -> Chargeback
Let's see what route they take.
EDIT: and IMO providers should get an infraction if they pull shit like this, either cancel at end of period, or simply be upfront with the reason behind the increase instead of being shady.
EDIT 2: Opened a ticket, received a full refund.
Thank god one of my LET host is just increasing $0.15 x 12 = $1.8 a year/cp account on reseller plans. It's quite lighter on the wallet than the 275% increase by hostmantis!
Abandon the ship before it sinks
You can see for yourself that Hostmantis's responses to any criticism in the past were defensive and deflecting. Google any reviews of them (responses to bad reviews) or responses on other sites, it's constant victim blaming and lack of responsibility. In fact the latest backtrack post included some of the only accountability that I've seen from them, but it's hard to take it seriously after all the backtracking and bad PR. You can see that they refuse to answer questions about "helping people out", and are just saying "Ticket us if you're actually a customer". Looks like the help is a 50% coupon. I wonder if I show them an EBT card they will reduce it even lower like Amazon?
People told me I was overreacting when their customer service didn't treat me well, because who cares about customer service right?
When stuff like this goes down, having a company with good customer service and accountability is really important. You're not just paying for hosting in this case (although they did try to tell me not to expect any support at their price point)
Maybe it never happens but if the company doesn't have your back and you can tell by the way they respond in public and to your tickets it's a disaster waiting to happen. Hostmantis already let their customers down with a massive DDOS years back. Keep track of who handles the Cpanel stuff gracefully now - those are the companies to stick with!
Due to the last announcement, the new coupon is now -50%
I've 3 Expert plans, a way to avoid the (old) limitation of resources on reseller plans.
So it's now from $13.38 to $$33.44 USD
The first announcement sounds like an old sales trick, to better make us accept a +150% rise up
The cpanel price is $0.20x12= $2.4
Even with a 100% margin on Cpanel rise up, a fair final price would be
$13.38+($2.4x2)=$18.18
Currently, the servers are pretty good, will see how is the support, the final decision will wait 10 month ...
For reseller:
Cut from 50 to 10 cPanel accounts, with a price hike from 20 to 50 $ for three years.
This still has them running at a loss (10 cPanels * 0.2 $ * 36 months = 72 $ ).
That has to be covered. Until the renewal comes, they will see a loss from many reseller customers who bought a plan like this - after the first year.
After the renewal - it will still be running with a loss.
I see this as PR and trying to respect the deal as much as they are able to.
This is a similar price increase in dollars to the one with shared hosting, but since you get a much lower cPanel account limit (10 more cPanel accounts cost 72 $ for 3 years), it practically is an even higher price increase than the shared hosting customers are facing.
While still having them running at a loss - so it has to be covered. I suppose most resellers wouldn't accept an even higher price increase, so the shared hosting customers are being charged a bit extra - 30, instead of just 10 $ more for three years.
To anyone that is unhappy with how they handled this, simply ask for a refund and move along.
I was granted a full refund immediately.
Make $20/yr VPS great again.
Yeah, but this doesn't rectify the issue, just adds insult to injury.
Its tantamount to selling you a car with a loan, waiting until you make customization to it (upload websites) such as tinting the windows, or nicer rims and then about 1 month later the dealership comes to you and says, "Ohh, sorry, we really couldn't afford to finance this car to you at the price we did, you can either pay more money now or you can return the car to us for a refund." You still took a loss, time IS money, so what they are hoping here, much like the dealership would if they were dumb enough to attempt this, is that the money/time you put into the 'customization' (uploading your sites, and tuning them) will be worth more to you than the imposed increase in cost, hoping you will just spend the additional money and forget it because you don't want to be bothered with migrating things again.
This is bait and switch. Period. If you were sold a bill of goods at a specific price they can't just change the pricing mid-contract, that is at most illegal and at the least insulting to your (soon to not be) customers. Now, should this amount be changing at the next renewal period and you have a heads up that it is happening, then that is on you to decide and it isn't being forced upon you during the original contract period.
Just because GM decided to charge the dealership additional for their contracts does not mean that I am obligated to pay more to the dealership. That is the dealership's issue to deal with and resolve those extra costs after entering into a contract with me for a set amount. Anything but abiding by this is a breach of contract. The unfortunate thing in this case being that a breach of contract holds no higher value than the original amount you paid, thus you take a loss of your time and effort should you decide to cancel the contract.
To be honest, any host worth their salt wouldn't do such ridiculous things as try to increase prices mid-contract and should be used an an indication as per their solvency in this case, seeing as they didn't plan ahead to be able to deal with such cost changes in their business.
Simply put, taking a refund isn't of equivalent value and is you taking loss. This isn't really even compensation, but instead a cop out on the side of the host and shows they are actually defaulting on their contracts. The fact they have to offer refunds at all should be a big red warning sign to all their customers. Anyone with this company should really take a moment to contemplate what type of company they are hosting with and their actual solvency seeing as they have decided they need to increase their prices astronomically to cover their previous poor business decisions and one would assume, to stay in business.
my 2 cents.
Cheers!
With the new pricing strategy they are effectively changing their business model/target market. This makes me question whether they can continue in business after the changes.
I can stay with them under the new pricing scheme or I can go with other hosts at similar pricing that I have much more confidence will still be around in a year.
I run a small bicycle shop.
Doing my best to make sure all the work is done top class.
However, mistakes are bound to happen. Rare, rare exception, not a rule, but they happen.
My refund policy is: up to the price of damaged parts if they are sold still, or equivalent quality new parts if the old ones are discontinued.
Nothing less, but nothing more.
If a lawyer uses a bicycle for commuting (many do in my city), they make 10 to 100 times more than I do per hour. No way I could offer to compensate them for the lost time - bringing the bike back for fixing any mistakes I had made, and/or not being able to use it for commuting, hence loosing time on public transport, or in car traffic jams.
Both the repair price and the refund policy (if a mistake is made) is stated up front. Those not happy with it must look elsewhere.
I think this is fair and the only sensible solution.
For all I know, most other hardware and software refunds are like that (read the TOS).
Yes most TOS are like that but providers often make exceptions.
.
From a business point of view, it seems that they don't evaluate the social impact of their decision.
Take a common guy like me. Side away, he manages a Linkedin group of 300,000 members, able to generate 100 new customers with a single publication. Today, this recommendation is postponed at least. Call that the direct impact.
But most importantly, the indirect impact. I can not imagine the mess when some prospects will google "Hostmantis" tomorrow ...
The business is complex, everyone can measure it here. For us, I do not worry too much, there will always be hosts to accept our websites.
It is, in my opinion.
Look at how they handled this situation and them clearly not realizing that they were burning cash and sinking until they "did the math" with the cPanel calculation.
This tells me that the likelihood of them existing / performing well for more than 2 and a half more years (the remaining time before renewal) is unlikely. I'd rather take the peanuts I paid elsewhere.
Now if you were an actual customer with an actual use / website using them I could see how this isn't a reasonable solution.
I am not saying that anyone should order anything from them.
You shouldn't on principle alone.
I only bothered them with the refund request (which I thought wouldn't be honored) was to rub it in with how badly/disingenuously they handled this. I have zero interest in having any relationship with that mess.
If I were them I'd pack my bags and head over to another forum and attempt to rebuild my reputation. Eh, odds are it'll be a slow death.
Probably what they're doing. But the WHT folks seemed angry with them as well.
Hostmantis isn't a deadpool host, and a failed promo won't cause any long term problems. They're not a new host, they have lots of locations, they've been around longer than many hosts on the forums. They tried to race to the bottom to attract clients, probably to generate good feedback publicly, and they probably knew it was going to just be a loss and time eater and after the cPanel increase it just finished it. It sounds like their service is fine, so regardless of a stupid decision and blaming the cPanel increase to increase prices to a stupid extent, it won't hurt them besides the negative feedback publicly.
I miss to see how that new announcement is any better. They still remove an essential part of the contract ( the ability to create a specific amount of hosting accounts agreed upon when the contract was signed by both parties without any alternatives ) essentially crippling the other party in the middle of the billing period. This is purely damage mitigation which based on the other replies I read in this thread and on other sites is not working out very well for them.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The reputational fallout on this is already visible if you look for hostmantis reviews and experiences on the web and it will not get any better.
I got a full refund in the end and faster than they closed all tickets before when I asked them for full company address and name for a legal summons. To get there was a hassle and cost me few hours of my lifetime especially dealing with their special support staff.
I wish I had used one of their "lifetime" coupons they advertised over Twitter instead of the LET offer. The contract lawyer my private legal cost insurance sent me to started laughing like an idiot after he looked into their ToS, the Twitter page and their announcement mail and said we got you covered don't worry but if they refund you take it and save yourself the nerves and hassle, they'll most likely be bankrupt before you'd win any money.
On my way out I sent them a modified GDPR death letter and they already closed that ticket again without answering, so with a bit of luck i only have to wait for 30 days now and then make sure the EU fines them for up to €10 million, or 2% of the worldwide annual revenue of the prior financial year ( whatever is higher ) for noncompliance.
We used that thing to test our own GDPR compliance if one ever came in and I can tell you it took us a good year with two people from IT staff dedicated to the process to set up an automation system that would pull all requested data and provide them in a way that our legal department could then draw up an answer that would satisfy the EU data protection watchdog for full compliance.
I have a feeling after the recent experience I had with HostMantis that there is a good chance they'll treat this with the same professionalism they showed on honoring contracts and the thought they put into their business calculations.
Also I am pretty sure that I am not the only one who called the SEC about their advertisement and business practices.
I highly recommend to anyone to inform themselves about their consumer rights and make use of them to the fullest extend if a company tries to pull stupid sh*t with you while you are in a legally binding contract with them. If you let people get away with this kind of stuff they'll do it over and over again.
Also visible in the tone of their responses to tickets.
If enough people do this - they will most probably go bankrupt very quickly.
Resulting in only the first few percent actually getting their money back.
With everyone else loosing the service. For now, the service has more expensive renewal price, lower account number limits (for resellers), but it still works fine.
So, most probably, the way things are going, smartest financial move would be asking for money back, today.
When I had signed for 20 $ - 3 year reseller hosting, I was prepared to take that as a loss - didn't expect good hosting at that price. Based on good reviews, it was a calculated risk, plus I expected it to be at least good enough for testing and development.
I won't be asking for money back, for several reasons:
LOL. I would have literally gone ahead and did a chargeback on my card if I was their customer. Our bank is just pro-customer and never likes any business duping them. They instantly reverse the amount within a phone-call.
Why would I do this??
Because THEY are running the web hosting business in LOSS. Here's how:
Now which host on the planet will be sustainable to offer: $0.20/yr hosting with 25 GB space, Unlimited Bandwidth, and that too when they don't even own their hardware? It is just a loss-making hosting business for them, especially when per account cPanel prices have kicked in
And regarding killing a business: That's their business. They need to have something like "sinking-fund" ready and kept aside for emergencies like this which would be helpful to them for unforeseen price hikes, price fluctuations and to absorb the price increase for current customers until their contract period gets over. If they're charging their customers (who have paid already) to cover the extra charges their upstream providers have charged them - that should be dealt with by them and not their customers.
I will fairly go ahead and chargeback such provider than even begging for the refund. Such businesses should stay out of the business - that's better for the entire business ecosystem.
I smell (this) worse than Alpharacks/woothosting (SCAM)
Oh. Are we we playing Low end Prisoner's Dilemma?
grab Popcorn
I understand and respect both your and @EAgency's point of view.
In fact: asking for money back (or even a chargeback) instead of suing them is probably a more noble move, giving them an easier and more dignified way out.
Looking at it from a slightly different perspective:
Finding good quality hosting is not very easy. Finding it at a low price, which even the new HostMantis pricing still is - even harder. And HostMantis service has been surprisingly good so far.
The new pricing looks less un-sustainable. They will not be making much loss with the current discount offers and, for all I know, have stopped offering new discounts, not that big at least (correct me if I'm wrong).
The 80% discount was suspiciously cheap from the start, even with the old cPanel pricing policy - wasn't expecting anything, really.
With the current turn of the events and the way they have handled this so far - not looking good at all. For any stuff hosted there, as it stands: I'm not planning on moving anything "serious" there, for at least a year now (if they survive and the service remains good).
Backups of data and "backup hosting" solutions are understood always, no matter which hosting used - at least for me (EIG buyouts, policy and owner changes - you never know).
Still, as far as I'm concerned, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and see where they land. Not asking for money back. If they survive this, both in PR and financial terms, they will surely become the best hosting provider in the world LOL
If my 3 x 20 $ help anyone - good. Won't make much of a difference for me. Paid for themselves already, being able to test different hosting locations with very similar/same setup, see how much effect that has - and play with some other stuff.
Bottom line is, for me, it feels like the right thing to do - not adding to the difficult situation, for both the other clients and the provider. Whenever I try a new hosting provider, especially cheap ones, it's always a gamble.
I've posted their new pricing with new 50% OFF coupon TW50OFF in my above/earlier post. It seems you missed it OR your maths is not that good that you still tag a webhost 'less un-sustainable' and that they will not be making much loss.
Anyways, my post was to point to that with their new coupon and new prices they are totally in LOSS/UN-SUSTAINABLE in short and long run (both)
Its upto their customers to blindfold their eyes and keep hosting with them or move out ASAP.
Thanks.
Missed that.
Well... that's brilliant! Apparently going for the Alpharacks achievement after all.
This one's on me: