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damn.. rip
what's the point of this thread again? hiformance is deadpool. you lost with paypal? what can we the community do for you?
He wanted moral support.
He didn't get it, so he left. Probably sobbing in a corner of his basement now.
In the meantime, CC at LEB deleted all the threads and links to hiformance offers! They even deleted the section of the post of the 10 best... Black Friday offers that now contains 9!!! Good job. Kudos!
Yet they failed.
Google and archive.org still remember...
@tcp6 is a straight up fraudster. If he feels the way he does about large corporations, where exactly does the line get drawn? As a hosting company, we see this all too often, with people performing committing fraud and the fraudster thinking that we don't get hurt because we are providing a service which is largely automated. Ignoring the fact that alot of time and effort, and capital go into building that service. And of course the charge-back fees! There is real cost, and the size of the company does not matter. Disgusting and disgraceful!
As for the OP, @hckhenrique, no one says that you are in the wrong for being cheated, or that HiFormance was right to cheat you. This is clear. You are the victim of a scam, and HiFormance is the criminal here.
However, what people here are saying is that you are a 'cheap ass fucker'. You spent $26 for a 3 years of service and charged your clients $120/yr? Each? $26 is a small amount to lose, so consider this a cheap lesson learned. Don't be cheap with your clients. If you could sell those services with an effective revenue of ~1k for 3 years, and your costs are only $26, that's a ~97.5% profit margin. Actually, if you're getting paid by Paypal, you're likely paying ~$50 just to receive that money. It is a HUGE red flag if payment processing is a bigger cost than your actual running costs. It is absolutely absurd that you thought that this was a reasonable business. So again, I hope this experience has taught you something, and considering it was only $26 you lost, that's cheap.
I've been scammed out of >$50k from unscrupulous providers.... Those were painful experiences....
Yeah, It's not like paypal made money out of it...
..wait..
That's bullshit.
You used up all my sympathy for you at the moment you typed " my real client".
They paid you for a service, they are (or were) your real clients.
btw Just from this I can tell you sell templates to your clients and claim you did it all yourself.
So, if you deposit money to a Bank account of a client of yours and he scams you not delivering the product, should the Bank refund you? Paypal has no obligations, digital goods are not even covered from buyer's protection program. There are certain rules for a paypal dispute and they are not a court.
If a company scams a client, then, that's the role of the Police and courts.
Yeahhh ...
Hopefully his clients read this thread.
The amount of money they made would have been absolutely tiny. Paypal fees are less than 5%. In this particular case you're talking about $1 - $1.30. If account was funded by Credit Card, then the amount paid to Visa/Master was probably in the order of 1%, meaning it is likely Paypal's portion of the fees is probably less than a dollar.
Regardless of the value of the transaction, the it's only at most 5%. Do you think they are supposed to offer 'free' insurance to their customers on all services? Paypal are providing a service, not a charity. Just because they make money on each transaction does not make them liable for the actions of their users.
Some people simply have an entitlement attitude towards everything. As was the case with @tcp6. Somehow he felt entitled to rip off Paypal because he believes Paypal rips off OTHER people.
If Paypal 'rips off' other people, I would say that is because of people like him. Those costs are eventually passed onto the consumer, making fees higher for the rest of us.
@tcp6 fancies himself a sort of Robinhood figure. Or at least a half Robinhood. Stealing from the rich....
Stealing is still stealing though.
...to keep it himself and not give it to the poor, is definitely not Robin Hood. The best could call him could be cheapo Carl Gugasian...
The Nigh sect would not accept such morally flawed members.
Just so you guys know.
Yes I said HALF Robinhood. Stealing from the rich (that would be the first half). But he keeps it for himself. So.. no 2nd half :-).
Robbin' Hood.
Point being, they are involved and made money out of the transaction which in this case was a scam. It doesn't matter if they got the smaller piece of the cake.
PayPal should be made somewhat responsible, this way they would crack down on sketchy players that use their services, and there are many out there.
BTW, where is this @hckhenrique guy? I already miss him...
Brazil.
Why should they be responsible? They provide protection only for physical goods. For services, it is far more risky for them to provide any sort of guarantees.
Should every party involved be somewhat responsible? Visa/Master? HiFormance's hosting provider? The people who made the computers and servers? The internet service providers? The transit providers?
These are all players that made the transaction possible. Should they all share in the responsibility?
Its not hard to win a paypal case with a host who doesnt provide a service. Just be descriptive, make sense and use screenshots.
Just wanted to point out that their protection even for physical items is spotty at best. You can sell something, have delivery confirmation, capture the appropriate signature and get rekt by a "significantly not as described" claim. Do what you will, submit your proof, and bam, the buyer wins.
Happens the other way around too. I had an interesting experience with a scam seller. Took me about 4 months to finally get paypal to agree to refund me.
@randvegeta
I just feel like eBay/PayPal tend to err on the side of the buyer, is all. Then again, PayPal is far from perfect, so I doubt it's good for either party.
eBay, however, is now better to sellers than Amazon, and you're not stuck dealing with the cheap knockoffs as much, so.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't know about that.
I mean it would make sense, but my experience has taught me otherwise.
Not including fraud (like a stolen paypal / credit card), we almost always win our dispute cases. It's easier for us to do so because we actually provide the service. So when it comes to disputes on our account, we, the seller, seem to win the cases more often than not.
Now with that scam seller, it took a great deal of effort to get Paypal to side with me. First I ordered something. After several weeks of no contact or delivery, I opened a dispute saying item not delivered. The scammer then sends an item out AFTER the dispute is already open, and provides paypal with proof of delivery. The case is closed. I need to call Paypal to reopen the case to change the dispute to 'not as described'. Paypal instruct me to return the item to seller. The seller provides an address that is actually a different country to where the item even came from. I mentioned this to Paypal, but they said, just provide proof of delivery, and they will refund. Turns out the address does not exist, and item is undeliverable., and gets returned back to my country. Paypal closes the dispute because item was not returned. I call back to reopen the dispute because it's not reasonable if the address given is fake. They ask for proof that it is fake. How? They need a report from the delivery company. So now I need to call the delivery company, and get an official report from them. The report must state the reason why the item could not be delivered. I do all this, and send the report to Paypal. Paypal refuses to refund and closes the case. I call back, make a big stink, and explain that I have been both patient and cooperative, and even pointed out the differing return address, asking to make sure it was okay to send back before I actually send the item... yadda yadda yadda. The whole process for the refund literally took 4 months.
I imagine many victims would not be so persistent as I. So it definitely did not seem that Paypal was erring on the side of the buyer (me) that time.
how much was the item cost in this case