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MXroute no longer seeks or welcomes traffic from lowendtalk.com
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Anyone endorsing jar's tactics are people to be wary of IMO
I think it's just heated and people take sides. We shouldn't redirect our focus away from the original issue.
The reddit thread is a fun read though:
Reddit's score algorithms are bizarre though. It's crazy seeing every comment alternate between +5 and -5 on every refresh.
With all due respect... why not just sue him? If you're making the claim he's harassing you (or, someone you say isn't you but the intent was there), why not bring it through the legal system and prove you're in the right? Otherwise, this is just adding a lot of drama to an already drama fuelled situation. I'm not saying what either party did was right, but man, two wrongs don't make a right.
That's supposed to be a last resort, not a first resort. Plus, it's expensive and no one really wins but the lawyers.
I like llamas
People try to excuse his business, not his behaviour. Everybody has their weaknesses, or their darkness, or their demons, or their bad side - whatever you want to call it. At the end of the day it takes years to design and grow a successful service.
Maybe Jarland goes through a very low moment in his life - we all do at some point. People are not defending what he did, just him as a person, because people still trust he can be better and do better than that if he puts his mind to it. We're all humans, but the important aspect is to get up after we fall, just like we learn to walk in childhood's baby steps. Falling is easy, getting back up is hard.
I dunno, there were people here saying that WyvernCo was the bully crying to his mommy and that jar was only defending himself... Thankfully just a minority, though. But I agree that this should be about the events and not the business.
In regards to jar's behavior, this seems like a pattern and not a one time thing.
I think someone is botting the thread; it was going up very quickly until Jar & fans became aware of it. Now all my comments, even non-drama ones are being aggressively downvoted. Organic traffic keeps upvoting it, so it's a race between bots and humans now.
I thought it was Reddit's weird vote fuzzing algorithm, but this does seem more intense than typical. I dunno, I don't use Reddit.
I wrote what I remembered of what happened earlier: https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/4764522/#Comment_4764522
It all started because Jar was defending a provider for terminating a user who'd left a negative review, by saying that he'd once done that when got a bad review from a customer who'd previously broken many other TOS. Both you and Wyvern jumped on him for saying that, and Wyvern then started digging up every single complaint anyone had ever made about Jar, turning a simple comment he made defending someone into a massive witch hint, and then took that into another thread where someone was asking for an e-mail service and he merely mentioned his service. Even at that early stage, it seemed to me that Wyvern had it in for Jar and wanted to cause him problems.
It was already getting out of hand when I went to bed, but it had obviously escalated massively overnight, because there were loads of comments referencing what had been said, and it was all gradually cleaned up in the threads. About all I got from that was that Jar had decided to leave LET at that point. And some time after that, Jar created his promo thread, so presumably you guys had been continuing to press his buttons sufficiently that he thought you were both psychos.
I missed the worst of the drama, so I don't know everything that went down, but certainly from what I saw, this whole thing seems to ultimately stem from Wyvern acting like a dick.
Everything I wrote was polite and largely non-confrontational. I don't like being accused of following him when I only replied when I was quoted, or long after the discussion had already began.
Imo, even if Wyvern overreacted, jar escalated it beyond anything else by using his large audience to amplify a personal attack. And then the doxxing (whether or not it was successful) just made it worse.
I googled "Wyvern trademark" earlier and there seem to be literally dozens of companies with a trademark involving Wyvern, and so presumably they all are all for a very specific industry. That makes it unlikely that it's even possible to claim trademark infringement unless they also happen to be operating in the same industry as whatever e-mail providing falls under.
So Wyvern was wrong about legal nuances and used the wrong terminology to try to get an attack page removed. I don't think that excuses jar's behavior at all. If both were wrong, the person abusing their reach for personal attacks (rather than criticism) is more wrong.
Is it possible that not everybody thinks the same way you do?
If Jar were genuinely fearful of WyvernCo being a "dangerous stalker" as it seems in his reddit post, why wouldn't he go to the police? Reaching out to their supposed employer is pure spite and doesn't support this narrative at all. If I feared for my safety from someone online I would not be escalating things further in a public forum I would be going to the police where the police would (rightfully so) tell me to stop contact and retain documentation of further abusive contact.
Jar blew a gasket! One soft serve has to be on every page of this thread. Maybe he or she should just sit this one out. Sometimes just learn not to say anything! The other soft serve is just getting a dose of his own medicine. I don’t condone either parties behavior but you are kinda asking for it also!
Redacted by Moderator.
Comment contains sensitive personal information.
@alfatarsos someone already posted the Hetzner complaint above (which doesn't match any of this btw). Your post feels kinda doxxy. If you were trying to share Jar's investigation process, you could have DM'ed it to me instead of posting the details publicly.
Why have the same username if you don't want it to be "public" tho. It's quite obvious that you are taking that risk, especially if you are beefing in a rather public forum. The fuck!
Don't know why this is still going, feels like we have more drama than deals, see https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/215920/easter-megathread-smoll-plate-chickens-bigg-eggs-2026-edition#latest
Quoting myself on that, @jbiloh, I know that you wrote a comment in this thread already. Maybe you or another mod can act a bit earlier than expected. IMO this thread seems to spread even outside of LET and not positively, rather spreads more hate.
Jar: you're lucky i don't report you to the local police
WyvernCo: you're lucky i don't pull off your payment gateway
You 2 get a fucking therapist.
I've already said in this thread that Jar doxxed the wrong guy. No one believes me, which is fair, but I did not put my public information out there -- so regardless of whether that's my info or some random unrelated guy's, I'm saying we shouldn't be posting it either way.
Wrong order. xD
If Jar wants to report me to the cops, I will happily inform them regarding the (attempted) doxxing. We'll see how that goes
Is this timeline correct? Asking some questions as well because I'm trying to see the complete picture.
Did Jar fuck up? Yeah, he did. Is wyvernco innocent? Far from it, from the looks of things.
Jeeze, LowEndTalk really is a shit show. Like qps said, there is a reason larger providers don't want to touch this place.
Anyway this is my personal opinion, not that of Incognet, please don't send my upstreams abuse reports because I mentioned your online username in a fashion that was not in 100% agreement with you. I also do not 100% disagree with you, either. I also do not agree with jar in his review, he should have just left and said why and we'd have all agreed with him that a large portion of this place is toxic and shitty.
On mobile so excuse formatting and lack of tags or grammar or spelling mistakes.
It spreads... how it is supposed to spread. Two people had an argument and they escalated it like fools. Jarland escalated it by creating a coupon calling them psychos, meanwhile people were buying his raare services with a coupon designed from offence. Then the other party escalated and used his previous business to disrupt MXRoute. Then Jarland recurred to doxing. Now we have this thread; meanwhile on LES Jarland called the party here a stalker, adding more spice to this slop.
These guys don't want to sit back, meet each other for a beer and talk. Instead they are both some stubborn business men who don't know how to have a soul and say "sorry" for their greater good. The smartest person is not the one who keeps doubling down and wanting to die with "their rights" in their hands; the smartest person is the one who understand the meaning of sacrifice and death and is willing to say sorry and bend the knee for peace in face of a destructive escalatory future.
At least LET gets a popcorn drama once again. But who am I to judge? I have plenty of popcorn. Let them settle this the way they want. Moderators should not intervene in my opinion.
Two threads.
Jar stated that he had done something WyvernCo took issue with. I agreed and jar, Wyvern, and me got in an argument. After jar started making (relatively mild) personal insults, Wyvern went into his sale thread and told them about it. Jar came in and argued more. I was pinged in there and joined in (apparently that's what the "following" was).
That was after it had seemed to calm down a bit, but apparently not. I was pinged (again) and told that my name was being used in his flash sale. At first I was pissed off but after a few minutes I just found it funny and moved on. That's the last I had thought about the whole event since it happened.
My understanding is that Wyvern reported the name as violating the hosting company's ToS. What a lot of people are assuming was that it was an attempt to get the whole business shut down, but Wyvern states that he only wanted that attack page removed.
He said he could have if he was spiteful but didn't because all he wanted was to have the attack page removed, not deplatform jar. Somehow that got mangled in translation and was used as evidence against him.
I think a simpler timeline is:
Now we're here.
@MannDude Not impressed how you're twisting events to try and make me look bad or make this look like a "both sides" issue when it absolutely is not.
Where is your trademark for that name? Can you publish it?