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Jar is ex admin here @WyvernCo
I don't know Jar well. Is he the kind of person who would appreciate if I reached out to him and apologized for my part in causing him any stress, or would he consider that harassment?
I really didn't expect that my criticism of his business actions would cause him this level of stress, but if he had his billing system disrupted and was even swatted by someone here, it makes a lot more sense why he'd be on edge.
Not surprised the provider that leaves retaliatory reviews on businesses that had bad experiences with his service, would get quite this butthurt over forum drama. Private Jarhead needs to grow some thicker skin.
Do not know all background and do not care much. But my general conclusion about 'jar' is that he's sometimes crybaby that overreacts. I remember back in days he was moderator/administrator here that he banned me because I was stating per hour VPS/Cloud servers are not really useful for 24/7/365 business (he was working with Digitalocean at that time) and got in argue with me.
So with this, I bet it's 80% of "I am mad because other people(moderators) do not allow me to always be right like my mum used to treated me" and 20% of something else.
On the other hand I know some great people and old school providers that left LET/LEB years ago and they are doing just fine.
LET can be challenging. Old members are well aware of its rough edges. It's not entirely bad or toxic. There is value here, just buried beneath a lot of noise. You need to know what to filter out, recognize the red flags, and decide what's worth tolerating. That said, MXroute doesn't need LET. They're fully capable of standing on their own without needing the exposure here.
I dunno.
There's no evidence of anyone swatting. There's also no evidence of anyone not either.
I have flagged several comments from utterly unsavoury users and it took a lot of effort to even get some action sometimes. I mean hell rustelekom is still here after the shit that provider has pulled constantly.
Unfortunately for you... considering you're directly related to the threads and the situation I have no idea how much your post is going to be read.
I do believe in fair criticisms. Hell I've correctly given Hetzner shit for their bandwidth hikes that are not within the EU and I got shit thrown at me(to which I haven't seen a single Hetzner fan defend it as of recent). ServaRica wasn't immune either to my criticisms however they took it very well. Even made up on it finally. The only criticisms (in my personal opinion, you and anyone else are free to disagree) that have fell short is the lack of moderation sometimes and @jbiloh AI crap.
Is that kind of behavior why he's no longer an admin, or did he step down?
Forest for the record I have always liked your posts and have learned a lot from it. I'm glad that you push back on providers and glad for that viewpoint across many different threads. I can understand if you feel bad but if some providers don't handle this critique well and continue to make themselves look bad over it that's on them, not on you.
You didn't do anything that necessitates an apology. I suggest you do not cater to this behavior or it will just be reinforced as a solution. The correct solution is for Jar to fix the root issues we criticized. This will ultimately be better for Jar's business and will help him a lot more in reality.
I suppose not, but it still feels shitty that an argument I got into had a hand in upsetting someone for this long.
I do want to make it right with him, but I suppose contacting him out of the blue would just make things worse. I guess I shouldn't feel too bad. He did use his position to try to insult me to, after all. Not much I can do about it now.
legitimate negative feedback deserve to be heard...not hidden
if there is an effort to silence them...thats usually a sign something isnt right
mxroute is too big now, don't need LET anymore.
Unsure what the drama is about, all I know is I've never had to worry about my MXRoute service. 🤷
No one is complaining about his service (afaik), just his people skills.
The tl;dr is that me and Wyvern got in an argument with Jar about whether it's appropriate to terminate someone over a review and leave retaliatory reviews on other businesses. Jar took it personally and quit LET. Apparently he's still not over it and it's still distressing him, so I feel kinda shitty for having a part in that.
Let me be the LETstradamus and say this:
It won't take long until you'll see him again here and - I dare to say - as a paid provider too.
That's what really surprises me about all this. Most other businesses would have seen the five problem behaviors and taken the constructive criticism for what it was. Perfect opportunity to recognize some mistakes, own them and take steps to correct them. If he wasn't sure how, he could have asked and we would have helped. It could have been a completely resolved thing and resulted in personal/business growth. Instead he just kept doubling down over and over...
I've had multiple services with them in the past, and although they've been mostly solid I haven't been able to bring myself to move anything important over to them due to this kind of thing. Any criticism (even if constructive) about the company he takes as a personal attack.
I remember that thread, and I defended @forest in that thread because @jar was making it extremely personal.
@forest is the kind of guy/gal to run 40 tor nodes, so of course they would criticize @jar in that @jar removed a person who was having their service just because they leaved bad review.
They repeatedly said that they didn't have anything against @jar themselves but @jar really made it personal by having revenge flash sales.
I also think that the community is so damn polarizing, there is simply no nuance. It's all controversy and fire and its basically the 4chan of web hosting without too much self reflection sometimes.
I feel like everytime @forest wrote a message explaining their rationale, @jar and more importantly the community too either treated it as a wall of text or just thought it was personal which would've been frustrating to @forest , because my guy cannot even explain what he is feeling/thinking.
And who the f*ck swatted @jar from this community? They deserve a special place in hell at this point.
I feel like LET community can do better/be kinder to each other. we are all similar than different, we all love servers but I feel like it falls on deaf ears sometimes, whether to one another or just in general, but the community truly frustrated @forest as far as I can remember because not many people listened to his messages and just went on continuing the drama smh.
I am disappointed in Lowendtalk sometimes. Especially the swat thing makes me a bit ashamed of this platform, jesus christ, that's despicable to whoever did that.
I would like to state that if there was any swatting, then I condemn it wholeheartedly.
For the record, it all started when jar stated:
WyvernCo and I said doing that was absolutely wrong. That resulted in a bunch of people dog-piling him. It ended with him creating a flash sale promo with the plan titled "WyvernCo_and_forest_are_psycho" to try to get as many people to see it as possible. Then he left LET. I thought that was the end of it, but it's still bothering him.
mxroute crashout wasnt on my bingo list for 2026
So you're blaming the platform like it was community driven, without any proof it even happened? That's strange.
Well, that's assuming it did happen. If it didn't then jar is lying of course, but I'd hope he wouldn't lie about something like that. Although it reads like the swatting thing happened prior to this incident and isn't directly related.
its just a frickin forum with woke transgender sysadmins, lighten up mxroute
This wasn't even the worst part, it was that nobody truly really cared about the drama and heck some even tried to promote it and were supporting the provider, just because they had gotten the deal.
At some point, I feel like the community's morality came second to deal. I remember not many people questioning jar as long as he could provide a good deal and some still miss him just because they won't get deals in the future anymore :-/ (Especially when the name of the deal itself felt very wrong calling someone psycho, it was good tho that forest took it in good measure for the community and didn't mind but perhaps jar didn't.)
At this point, its sad to see how this all unfolded but I am unsure if our community as a whole could improve too to be more understanding of each other. I hope so.
That was only after he made the revenge thread which brought in random people who weren't in the original argument. Before that, people were dogpiling him pretty hard.
Ah. Behind every business is people. They're human and bound to human emotions and reaction.
I'm more worried about service quality than anything, it's why people still use businesses and products where they don't like the human side of their leadership. Oracle is a dogshit company and is ran by a dogshit person but the service is fine so it's still used, and people here try to game the system to get more free shit from them despite their awful leadership and business practices.
Jar is still a good dude in my book, even if sometimes over dramatic, and I doubt he terminated someone for "just" a bad review if it was honest criticism. In the quoted post he said it was the "final straw", which sounds like there were issues before. Things likely taken of context, amplified and dogpiled on by the great community here who survives on drama.
Never followed the original drama so just responding to the cliffnotes version. Probably an overreaction from all parties involved.
Yeah it wasn't only that. My understanding was that the guy should have been suspended anyway, but a lot of people, me included, took issue with the fact that he would factor a review into it at all.
It was that, and writing retaliatory reviews that was an issue. It would be as if he rated IncogNET 1 star because you signed up to MXroute and fought with him in a ticket. It was definitely something worthy of being called out, but I'm surprised he took it so personally and that it escalated so rapidly.
I mean, if @jar is lying about being swatted, we have got an ever bigger problem but I generally don't think that people lie about being swatted. @forest said that the incident happened prior to the whole drama so I am not sure about that, but even then it feels a little wrong that someone from this community swatted a provider.
Expecting random people to get along perfectly? Where there's diversity of people, there will be diversity of opinions, insights and disagreements