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I mean everyone has problems from time to time, but 3 days of refusing to acknowledge a problem impacting all users of Hotmail/Outlook/Live... I'd have to agree with you after that.
I somehow missed this the first time through (or maybe it was added in a later edit), but also please do not make financial threats against the forum to try and get true (but unflattering) information removed. This is not a good look.
I’m not paying to be slandered. I was fine with it in the other thread and even let you have the last word. Following me around to keep slandering me is not appropriate, and I’m not paying to be treated that way.
Slander is not the correct word as we're both in agreement of the things that you've done. We only disagree as to whether they were justified. And I agree we can each have our own opinions about that.
Oh shoot. If I don’t walk you through every bad review I’ve ever had in over a decade of business it looks like I’m agreeing with your conclusions! I didn’t think of that! I guess from now on I should let my behavior be dictated by hostile people who take one disagreement and decide the only rational reaction is to try to burn down my entire life. I learned so much today!
@AlexBarakov is prem.
Worth in what sense?
Since it now sounds like you're now disagreeing with the events, here are the receipts so I can show that I am not lying and cite my sources more thoroughly. As a bonus, the more I dig, the more I find!
Left retaliatory reviews of multiple customer businesses
Jar's trustpilot profile where numerous negative reviews he left mentioning "approached me to provide them with a service", etc, indicating these are MXRoute customers. These reviews are as recent as a couple months ago.
Jar admission that he engages in retaliatory reviews against his customers:
He is almost certainly not a customer of some of these businesses, such as the hypnotherapy business:
Denied GDPR deletion request
Clear admission of refusing customer request to delete data on trustpilot.
Further reinforced here:
Whereas the user could have been accommodated by anonymizing the data, which would have met the needs of both parties.
Deleted inboxes without providing reasonable recourse to export data
The above GDPR willful ignorance is somewhat ironic given the number of trustpilot reviews complaining of summary / surprise deletion of their entire stored inboxes (ex: same guy as double billing example below or this other guy (who may have been a spammer, but still), or this guy whose crime was opening free trial accounts on other services, etc ), so I guess deletion is only possible when it inconveniences the customer? Even if these terminations were justified (and it seems like some may be), it is quite possible and reasonable to put an account into an outbound suspension while still allowing the customer a way to export their data and migrate services.
Refused to refund double billing
Where the user was clearly trying to switch plans and Jar had knowledge of this but would not issue a refund.
and:
Jar replied to this stating the expectation is to reply to the no-refunds autoresponder to request a refund, which seems a very counterintuitive process to me. No wonder people are confused.
Terminated account (in at least part) for receiving bad reviews
and later:
So clearly the review was the final motivating factor for account termination, whereas it should not affect a termination decision.
Financial threats against the forum to try and get true (but unflattering) information removed
Criticism is not slander. You can't leave retaliatory reviews and boast about shutting people down (even in part) due to them giving you bad reviews and then expect that people will not point out what happened.
Note that the people who are criticizing you are doing so because of your behavior, not because of the quality of your services. Unfortunately, the way the owner treats customers does have to factor into decisions regarding paying for such services.
It can be. Don't forget that defamation/slander are legal terms while criticism is more like a philosophical/social term.
True. I should amend that to criticism of factual events.
Truth (and sometimes just genuine belief) is always an absolute defense against defamation (slander/libel) charges. So I could say something like "jar is such a meanie!" and it would be a really poorly-worded criticism but it would be a legal statement, but if I said something false like "I hear jar secretly eats babies" then it would become defamation.
There is no need for that hyperbole. No one here is trying to burn down your entire life. No one here is saying you should shut down your business. In fact, I'd bet that no one here even hates you. However, people do believe that your behavior is highly combative and that you struggle to accept feedback without taking it personally.
This is LET. People warn each other about all sorts of problematic provider behavior. What you are trying to do is strong-arm admins into suppressing criticism for you via financial threats. That is inappropriate.
I'm from the UK. I'm not deleting your data if I have a legal reason to keep it. The legal reason to keep it is for accounting and tax purposes. Clearly stated in Jar's response.
Not for me to respond to other parts, as that's opinion based (unless you see a law against posting something on TrustPilot?), but that statement and your comment earlier about "most companies agree that privacy is important" is just not true, unfortunately. We live in a world of Googles and Apples and Amazon's - they don't give a shit about your privacy and will purposely violate it.
It would be more accurate to say a small minority want you to have privacy. The rest want to profit from your lack of it.
I'm a big fan of Incognet's mission statement, although I have not been able to research or truly put it to the test.
+1 for IncogNET. They are one of the few providers that really does care about privacy and freedom of speech.
You people are clinically insane. You create your own stories in your heads based solely on the only word of or in defense of abusive people (I guess abusive assholes stick together), and you just keep going on and on and on and on. I’ve seen some mental breakdowns on LET but you two, you might be the worst I’ve seen since Johnny.
Dude, calm down. No one here is having a mental breakdown for criticizing the behavior of a business.
You can't expect people to not criticize a business on LET. Discussing business' pros and cons is kind of why it exists.
@hawc / @Jord / @netomx / @angstrom / @DP
Can we get some moderation in here before these creeps try to nail me to a cross while cosplaying Roman soldiers?
I did ignore it. I gave you your thread and the last word. Now you want to follow me around like pets and derail other threads because you’re butt hurt that I didn’t fall in line and be who you told me to be. Now we need moderators to clean up this mess before you two shit all over this entire forum.
Huh? I joined in an existing discussion in here. I didn't bring up anything.
You are literally pinging mods because people are bringing up that you:
That's all. No one is insulting you. No one is calling you insane or butt hurt or accusing you of having mental breakdowns. Those are all your words directed at others. Everyone here is pointing out issues with business behavior alone and you are screaming insults and trying to get the criticism censored in response. That really is not appropriate.
People are beginning to dogpile you because of your reactions here. I don't mean this in a passive aggressive or hostile way at all, but could I suggest that you take a small break and allow yourself to calm down?
I was wrong to expect that you actually read the whole thread before you took a dump on it. That’s on me.
What are you on? I think you need some sleep, it's late European time.
I'm supposed to appreciate people following me around in threads and warning people not to do business with me while citing reviews posted by people who abused our service (you know, the most honest people around), simply because someone didn't like my opinion in another thread and decided to get revenge for it?
If you think I'm supposed to like that, what the hell are YOU on?
You don't have to appreciate anything, but people are going to warn others about providers' problematic behavior, yes.
This is the first thread anyone has brought this up in after it was revealed elsewhere. No one is following you around.
UK's privacy watchdog specifically states businesses do have a requirement to delete data upon request and gives an example of: "After you have cancelled your gym membership, the gym no longer needs to keep details of your name, address, age and health conditions." So, while you would be entitled to keep records of the amounts paid, etc., you also would be required to delete the customer's name/address/etc to comply. (Anonymizing the customer data in your records would meet this requirement)
Im on coffee, thanks for asking!
Let's recap this for you.
I said I once terminated a user for a review, but also clarified that it wasn't JUST for a review. It was the final straw after the user repeatedly ignored our requests to stop berating us endlessly and unjustifiably in support tickets. When he chose to try to actually harm our reputation as his final move, that was when I decided to stop doing business with him. You can disagree with me on that, perfectly within your rights.
But that's not what followed me here is it. You don't know, you can't read back that far. But it's not. What followed me here is an unstable individual who then dug out every single bad review I've had in over a decade of doing business and declared two things to be true:
The unstable individual then clarified that this was in retaliation for having "noxious opinions" and then also stated an intent to further escalate their behavior against me.
In my effort to try to reason with this person, they just chose to keep on repeating lies from bad reviews on TrustPilot, NOT just the truth of the event I spoke of in the other thread. When that failed, I asked if moderators would come and clean up this thread because derailing threads for what is openly admitted to be a personal vendetta against me for having a single wrong opinion. This is not only against the rules, it's exactly why most providers won't come here.
Now in you come choosing to pile on top of the individual in question. Sometime it feels like I'm living in an entire world full of people who would gladly burn everyone else's life to the ground without even stopping to question if it's the right thing to do. The other user is the embodiment of that behavior for me today, and from my view you have opted to step in and take part in that as well. Everyone has an opinion, no one actually wants to work to make sure it's the correct one. Because reading is hard.
Dislike me, believe everyone who ever said anything bad about me, go right ahead. Just leave me alone. Stop following me around. I gave you your thread, I gave you your last word. I want nothing from either of you but for you to de-escalate your behavior.
I'm not a gym, and I'm certainly not going to forge past invoices with fake details. The accountant that I don't have would have a raging fit. That website also states:
If for some reason my 24/7 gym web hosting business had your health data, yes, that could be deleted, but the billing data is part of an invoice that needs to be kept for 5 years as per HMRC requirements.
British laws are not applicable in the United States.
The thing is, there's zero evidence that this individual is interested in rational conversation about the topics that they bring up. If they were, they would have found plenty under the reviews that they pulled data from. That is simply not something they are after. The user decided that they didn't like me, found whatever ammo they could to use in retaliation, and then began their campaign while also citing their intention to escalate their behavior. This is not someone who wants a rational conversation, this is an unstable person who is looking for a fight.
Here is my source for HMRC requirements:
https://www.gov.uk/invoicing-and-taking-payment-from-customers/invoices-what-they-must-include
Edit: We're talking UK because I mentioned my own circumstances, and you linked UK information in response, and I did to you, but I don't know the scope of US laws, I can only assume there are similar requirements to keep certain data.