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Would you send an invoice to a client if their VPS box was suspended for 'Abuse'?
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Would you send an invoice to a client if their VPS box was suspended for 'Abuse'?

DillybobDillybob Member
edited June 2015 in General

Topic ^^.

The invoice would be for next month ofcourse.

Please explain why after you vote, thanks!

Would you send an invoice to a client if their VPS box was suspended for 'Abuse'?
  1. Would you send an invoice to a client if their VPS box was suspended for 'Abuse'?42 votes
    1. Yes
      59.52%
    2. No
      40.48%
«134

Comments

  • Suspension != Termination

  • Awmusic12635Awmusic12635 Member, Host Rep
    edited June 2015

    Most of the time sending an invoice is automated by the billing system.

  • cociucociu Member

    Awmusic12635 said: Awmusic12635 Member

    4:00PM edited 4:01PM FlagThanks
    Most of the time sending an invoice is automated by the billing system.

    is true

  • Abuse can be rectified, which means continuation of service, including invoicing.

  • depends on the type of abuse. but if it was end of account abuse. then no, that would be classed as theft

  • LeeLee Veteran
    edited June 2015

    Many providers don't have time to investigate the reasons behind the abuse, so they suspend and wait for you to get in touch, usually in reply to the email you got advising of the suspension.

    In many, many cases on LET where a provider terminates service a thread ends up here with the client pleading innocence and making out it's shocking their provider did it without giving them the chance to deal with it.

    You abused the system, they suspended, not terminated so therefore the billing continues.

  • Lee said: You abused the system, they suspended, not terminated so therefore the billing continues.

    Invoicing a client that has a suspended service that doesn't work? Do you see a problem with what you just said?

    Thanked by 1TarZZ92
  • rds100rds100 Member

    You don't HAVE to pay the invoice for a service that is not provided. It is a proforma invoice anyway, not an invoice. I.e. if you decide you want to cancel and move away - just tell the provider and that's it. If you however want to fix the problem for the suspension and want to continue using the service after that, you may want to pay the proforma invoice for the future period.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep
    edited June 2015

    As I said on vpsBoard, billing systems do not know why you were suspended and not generating and invoice would be cheating the client if they are suspend for a valid reason.

    Also, you admitted your VPS was suspended for intentionally DOSing another networks so what are you expecting people to say?

  • LeeLee Veteran
    edited June 2015

    @Dillybob said:
    Invoicing a client that has a suspended service that doesn't work? Do you see a problem with what you just said?

    No, it's suspended, not terminated. The VPS is still there and the resources are still allocated to you. If you want it terminated go into the panel and request it. The provider is giving you an opportunity to fix that, your choice.

    You are the cause of it not working, not the provider.

  • Most providers do bill because it's not terminated. (which is technically doesn't consume server or whatever space and so on...) So your files are there, but you haven't taken any action.

    Alternatively you can terminate the account if he/she is not responding. We give clients 14 days to respond (7 days on spams/hacking like things) then we'll terminate their service.

  • wychwych Member

    Suspended yes, terminated... no.

  • I put no, because it depends on the Abuse (This is what I did on my old hosting business):

    Bandwidth abuse -> Suspended and then invoiced.
    Mail abuse -> Suspended if the client is willing to fix it, no invoice.
    Illegal abuse -> Terminated
    Other abuse -> Terminated with a backup.

  • KuJoe said: Also, you admitted your VPS was suspended for DOSing other networks so what are you expecting people to say?

    This is untrue. I did not use it to DOS other networks, I used it so I can test iptables rules on the node itself. No outbound 'dosing' was sent from the node, it was from my main router to the node (inbound). I was testing UDP Flood and iptable rules. Those are entirely two different things. Stop spreading false information please.

    Lee said: No, it's suspended, not terminated. The VPS is still there and the resources are still allocated to you. If you want it terminated go into the panel and request it. The provider is giving you an opportunity to fix that, your choice.

    So just because it's suspended makes it okay for a provider to send an invoice? That doesn't make any sense. Maybe once I requested and disputed my issue with the provider and we were on good grounds, and then an invoice was sent I could understand that.

    But, invoicing a client with a service that is not working doesn't make any sense. Do you want me to pay the invoice, then get suspended again because someone decided to run LOIC with 'UDP Flood' on my ip for 10 seconds? No thanks.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep
    edited June 2015

    Also congrats on being the first person in the history of the internet to be upset that you weren't terminated for intentionally DOSing another network.

  • KuJoe said: Also congrats on being the first person in the history of the internet to be upset that you weren't terminated for intentionally DOSing another network.

    I'm not upset... Just curious as why providers invoice people for suspended vps's. That doesn't make any sense to me. And you still haven't articulated one good reason why except for your constant babbling how I was 'dosing other networks' using the vps which you couldn't be more wrong. I DOS'd the box from my own router, entirely different.

    With all that aside though, it doesn't even matter what I did. I'm still waiting for a good reason as why a provider would invoice a client after they were suspended for 'Abuse'.

    Why would a provider want them back on their network?

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep
    edited June 2015

    @Dillybob said:

    That's not what you said. I am basing my statements on the facts that you provided. And yes, you were DOSing a network other than your own according to your own post just now.

    Dillybob said: But, invoicing a client with a service that is not working doesn't make any sense. Do you want me to pay the invoice, then get suspended again because someone decided to run LOIC with 'UDP Flood' on my ip for 10 seconds? No thanks.

    Doh! I just realized you're trolling, damn I feel dumb now. That's what I get for trying to take people seriously online. :(

  • DillybobDillybob Member
    edited June 2015

    KuJoe said: That's not what you said. I am basing my statements on the facts that you provided. And yes, you were DOSing a network other than your own according to your own post just now.

    Where did I say I was DOSing other networks? The only ip I dos'd with LOIC was the one I tested iptables on (from my router -> to the vps). I did no dosing from the vps itself (vps -> other networks). How many times do I need to explain this to you?

    Doh! I just realized you're trolling, damn I feel dumb now. That's what I get for trying to take people seriously online. :(

    Lol, not trolling. But if you want to think it's okay to invoice a client after they're suspended for 'Abuse' that's your prerogative. It's wrong though and doesn't make any sense.

  • wychwych Member

    Dillybob said: I'm still waiting for a good reason as why a provider would invoice a client after they were suspended for 'Abuse'.

    Because you have been suspended not terminated, if you have not cancelled the service then the data is still on the system and can be restored once you have spoke to the host.

    Why would a provider want them back on their network?

    Because mistakes can happen, people may want to recover data are amongst various other reasons VPS are not terminated on suspension.

    People don't just get suspended for abuse, and the billing platform probably is only aware of a suspension not the actual cause (late payment vs abuse etc.)

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    Dillybob said: The only ip I dos'd with LOIC was the one I tested iptables on (from my router -> to the vps).

    Ok, maybe you aren't trolling and you're just new to this whole "internet thing". If so I apologize for not explaining myself further.

    I'll try to break it down for you a little better:

    Your router = where?
    Your VPS = where?

    Are they on the same network? If not, then you are DOSing another network other than your own.

  • DillybobDillybob Member
    edited June 2015

    wych said: Because you have been suspended not terminated, if you have not cancelled the service then the data is still on the system and can be restored once you have spoke to the host.

    Fair enough, but shouldn't this take place before they send the invoice? That's what I'm trying to get at. Why the invoice before, when the VPS is suspended itself? Shouldn't the invoice come AFTER the provider and client reached a conclusion?

  • TheOnlyDKTheOnlyDK Member
    edited June 2015

    @Dillybob If they don't care to contact you about their suspension, why would you keep their account active? Give them some time like @sdglhm said then just terminate their account and stops billing them. My nephew knows better than you do and he's only 4.
    (Replace they with you, and you with the host, I thought you were the host.)

    As for the others who are saying it's suspended not terminated, it doesn't make a bit sense. If one abused the server, got suspended, had 2 weeks of time, didn't contact host to ask why it was suspended and how to fix it, why would the host save the resource for that person and continue to ask "would you like to renew?"

  • DillybobDillybob Member
    edited June 2015

    @KuJoe said:

    Are they on the same network? If not, then you are DOSing another network other than your own.

    Well you said "Also, you admitted your VPS was suspended for intentionally DOSing another networks so what are you expecting people to say?"

    Which I read as you saying I DOS'd someone from the VPS like using a shell script or something which is untrue. But, now that I re-read it, I think I might of read it wrong. You're right I technically did 'DOS another network', but it was from my router, I didn't use the VPS to do it on another network (like using a shell script or whatever). That's what I thought you meant.

    My apologizes if you didn't mean it like that and I read it wrong.

    And trust me, I'm not trolling I just think invoicing someone when they have a suspended service, ESPECIALLY when it's for 'Abuse' is just plain silly. Whatever I did to the box or regardless of the provider is irrelevant. This is just a general business question that I'm curious about that doesn't make sense to me that's all.

  • J1021J1021 Member
    edited June 2015

    It's just an invoice, you don't have to pay it.

    It's there for you to pay in a situation where you're able to resolve the issue with the provider and continue service.

    It may shock you to learn that if your VM were to be suspended with an hourly cloud provider such as Linode/Vultr/DigitalOcean, you'll still be billed the hourly rate during the suspension period up until the moment it's terminated. Your VM is still stored on the disk of the node and CPU/RAM is "reserved" in anticipation of your VM being booted again.

    @Dillybob would you rather the provider removed your VM from their resources immediately before speaking to you so that they could stop billing you for it?

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @TheOnlyDK said:

    Bottom line, if they are suspended for a reason and they don't bother to contact you to fix it, then they don't deserve to keep the service, whIch means account termination, then it meams no invoice. Simple as 123, my nephew know thia better than you do and he's only 4.

    What if the VPS is suspended for using up their bandwidth for the month and want to pay their invoice so it'll be unsuspended next month so they can use it again? Should a provider terminate a VPS if the client doesn't want to buy more bandwidth? The bottom line is 99% of hosting providers are automated when it comes to billing and 100% of all third party billing systems don't know why a service is suspended so it treats all suspended services the same. Better to err on the side of caution in this case because I'm sure we'd all prefer it if a VPS suspended for

  • wychwych Member

    @Dillybob and @TheOnlyDK you are thinking that the billing platform can differentiate between an abuse suspension and other reasons.

    As far as its concerned it is a service that has not been terminated and needs to be billed; the invoice is simply generated automatically for any service that is not terminated in WHMCS a set period before the renewal, thus if the VPS is set to suspended it will be billed. WHMCS's suspension reason is simply a textfield.

    Your annoyed you got an invoice because you were suspended for abuse (have you even submitted a cancellation request since you don't wish to keep it?). Had you been a client who's payment card was rejected upon automated renewal for example and the system auto suspended you then you'd be extremely annoyed at the host if it was instantly terminated and your data/config gone.

  • DillybobDillybob Member
    edited June 2015

    kcaj said: @Dillybob would you rather the provider removed your VM from their resources immediately before speaking to you so that they could stop billing you for it?

    I'd rather have them create a support ticket or use an 'automated email' system and ask me if I want to continue service with them. (If you don't reply in xxx days, we will terminate your service) or something of that sort. It can be set up automatically through WHCSM or a plugin perhaps.

    And then once we work out what happened, or if I want to continue or deny... Then they can send the invoice over, but why send the invoice before the two parties have reached a neutral conclusion? I just don't get it.

  • TheOnlyDKTheOnlyDK Member
    edited June 2015

    @KuJoe @wych There are ways to automate this and yes the billing system can tell (with plugins and stuff) whether it's an abuse suspension or an out-of-resource/other suspension.

  • wychwych Member

    @TheOnlyDK said:
    KuJoe wych There are ways to automate this and yes the billing system can tell (with plugins and stuff) whether it's an abuse suspension or an out-of-resource/other suspension.

    Yup, it can even be done outside of WHMCS depending on the service, but CVPS doesn't use them.

    Either way for some people and some hosts its not the setup they want, different hosts also would tolerate different levels of 'abuse'.

    Thanked by 1TheOnlyDK
  • J1021J1021 Member
    edited June 2015

    Dillybob said: I'd rather have them create a support ticket or use an 'automated email' system and ask me if I want to continue service with them. And then once we work out what happened, or if I want to continue or deny... Then they can send the invoice over, but why send the invoice before the two parties have reached a neutral conclusion?

    Your service being suspended and you receiving an invoice are two entirely separate events. In the event that this happens it just so happens your suspension has fallen on the date that invoices are generated by the system.

    The presence of the invoice isn't restricting anything, it's not implying you should continue your service. If you come to the decision you're going to drop the service, no problem - the invoice can be deleted.

    This really is a stupid thing to be getting all arty-farty over and I can't believe so many of us are here discussing it.

    TLDR: IT'S NOT AN ISSUE, THE INVOICE CAN BE CANCELLED SHOULD IT NEED TO BE.

    Thanked by 1DalComp
This discussion has been closed.