Malaysian Plane 'Shot Down With 295 On Board'

ChrisMiller

rm_

posted on the EuromaidanPR Twitter account

Yyyyyyeeah, let's all listen to that unbiased source of information instead. Such unbiased, wow.

Meanwhile the US are sharply tuning down their accusations http://rt.com/usa/174796-intelligence-malaysia-plane-mh17-us/

not aware of the presence of any Russians during the missile launch, and would not confirm that the missile crew was trained in Russia. ...a sharp departure from comments made by US President Barack Obama a day prior, who stated that the Malaysia Airlines aircraft had been “shot down over territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists” that had been both armed with anti-aircraft weapons and trained by Russia.

ihatetonyy

rm_ said: Yyyyyyeeah, let's all listen to that unbiased source of information instead. Such unbiased, wow.

One of many cited.

rm_ said: Meanwhile the US are sharply tuning down their accusations http://rt.com/usa/174796-intelligence-malaysia-plane-mh17-us/

Meanwhile, a meatier article at McClatchy (and, for that matter, with a lede that actually seems to have gone by a copy editor -- you would think a state-owned outlet could get a decent lede out of its writers by threat of polonium):

Russia “created the conditions” for the deaths of the 298 people flying on the Boeing 777 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur by training the rebels and providing them with tanks, rocket launchers and other weaponry, said the senior U.S. intelligence official.

..

“We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to these separatists, the arms they provided to these separatists, the training they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine,” Rhodes told CNN in an interview.

...

The rebels have received training on air defense systems and other weaponry at a huge military base outside the southeastern Russian city of Rostov, and they’ve shot down more than a dozen Ukrainian aircraft in recent months with missiles, although none were SA-11s, the officials said.

..

Russian officials and news media _ which are tightly regulated by the Kremlin _ have offered their own explanations for the crash. They’ve ranged from Ukrainian forces firing an SA-11 to suggestions that a missile was fired by a Ukrainian SU-25 jet trailing the passenger jet to a conspiracy to discredit the separatists and Russia by detonating a plane filled with corpses over contested Ukrainian territory.

The SU-25 carries only short-range air-to-air missiles, while the damage seen in pictures of the Malaysia Airlines wreckage “does not correspond with what we’d expect to see” inflicted by such weapons, said the first U.S. intelligence official.

...

“To believe the Russian version of events,” he said, “a Ukrainian SA-11 out-out-of-range travels a great distance through enemy territory, waits for a civilian airliner, does something no other Ukrainian SA-11 has done heretofore and fires a missile, fights its way out and back to base and somehow persuades separatists to post on line that they shot the aircraft down.”

rm_

No need to copy-paste everything from your articles, can't you choose only something significant. In any case, nothing new in any of that, only the same old pointing to "social media and common sense" (everyone knows Russia is bad!), with no actual proof whatsoever.

ihatetonyy

rm_ said: can't you choose only something significant.

It's all significant and it saves the clickthrough.

rm_ said: only the same old pointing to "social media and common sense"

Astonishingly the same as we're getting from state-owned media.

Though they're winning the war with pretty pictures, I guess.

Upstage

Gotta love brainwashed westerners.

ihatetonyy

Upstage said: brainwashed westerners.

gb2RT and PressTV

vedran

Microlinux said: State controlled media, your #1 source for unbiased and factual information presented in a neutral manner!

Unfortunately there is no unbiased, uncontrolled and neutral media today.

Maounique

rm_ said: (everyone knows Russia is bad!)

Actually, yeah, except the russians, they turn a blind eye to whatever is wrong there and support Putin's regime because it conquers parts of other countries. The germans were even more optimistic about hitler after they took part of france, but at least they were somewhat backed by a formidable war machine, the germans killed russians 2:1 if we are to consider all german military casualties from all fronts.
Russia is now importing military hardware from the west, their economy is depending on raw material exports, has old industry, very polluting which is in no way shape or form able to supply the kind of output the stalin's industry could, but the main difference is that war, even blitz-krieg when the germans were advancing tens of kilometers every day taking millions of prisoners, was much slower then and the huge russian land gave time to the soviets to reconsider their political stance and start going for efficiency at least in some areas, thus giving a turn in a couple of years.
The war today will not last more than a few weeks at most a couple of months, if non-thermonuclear, and a day otherwise.

ihatetonyy

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723?irpc=932

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system and said it could have been sent back subsequently to remove proof of its presence.

Microlinux

@vedran said:
Unfortunately there is no unbiased, uncontrolled and neutral media today.

Some truth to that, but there are certainly varying levels of complicity and legitimacy. The corollary to RT in the US would be if the White House funded National Enquirer and threatened to send the employees to Guantanamo if they didn't "cooperate".

rm_

ihatetonyy said: rebels did possess the BUK missile system

Sure they claimed they captured one, but that turned out to be just a bluff -- even Ukraine confirmed that. And them being rebels and sort of loosely organized, I doubt that some Vostok (East in russian) commander is really being debriefed about to-the-minute happenings in the western part (where the supposed Buk could have been captured from the army).

Maounique

rm_ said: I doubt that some Vostok (East in russian) commander is really being debriefed about to-the-minute happenings in the western part (where the supposed Buk could have been captured from the army).

Sure, the name of the gang has anything to do with the things their leader knows.
There were movies posted with the system on the streets, so that is beyond speculation, now it is needed to confirm it did fire the rocket and the case is closed. It will end a la Israel, UN condemns, Russia vetoes it in the security council, the case is buried, russian propaganda says it is Ukraine who did it because it was on Ukrainian soil which Russia says it belongs to her, but the nazis took it in 1991, everyone happy.

Upstage

consortiumnews.com/2014/07/22/the-mystery-of-a-ukrainian-army-defector/

Feels like the more time passes by, the more interesting it gets.
But let all the Putin haters hate

Maounique

Upstage said: But let all the Putin haters hate

Not really:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28583669

At first look this is innocuous, they just need to know who you are so when you are raping kids in your blog they know whom to get. Anonymity is only for criminals, right?
Actually, you will be surprised to find out you were evading taxes or you broke god knows what obscure law if you are criticizing the regime. So, Putin haters cannot hate, at least not in public and not for long, unless they are not in russia or manage to remain anonymous. Today you need to know at least some things about computers to be able to be a political opponent of a regime or another.