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brazil 1 - 7 germany
I like how the rebels claim the Ukrainian government accidentally shot it down.
Why would would the Ukrainian government be shooting AA missiles in the first place (correct me if I'm wrong that the rebels don't have jets flying at 35,000 feet) . . . and the rebels themselves have shot down numerous Ukrainian planes in the past few days.
The best I can figure is they are implying the government shot down the plane to frame them, under the assumption none of the 5 billion people on earth would be able to figure out what really happened.
Seems likely a tragic accident that is being covered up. I doubt whoever is responsible did it purposely, but that's not going to matter in the end.
First of all was Malaysian air line blind.Everyone knew that Eastern Ukraine was a conflict zone so why did they fly there in the first place?Also before that Russia shot down war planes still they entered the conflict zone.I am sad but i think Malaysian airline did stupid act by flying over conflict zone.
Not sure why everyone is blaming the airline, they don't decide the flight path. They're told what path to take by air traffic control.
There is an ongoing international investigation. The evidence at the moment is mostly circumstantial.
You meen self-defence forces?
and only the kiev regime has the power to shoot a plane that high. The self defence forces shot down the regimes bombed jets due to them being so low. ( self defence forces only have manpads)
Posted on Twitter one month ago (use Google Translate):
It'll be a long time before we know who is truly responsible assuming we ever find out.
Only thing I will say is that earths population. Is ~7 billion not 5 :P
No, I mean rebels.
Again, no logic presented, just a flimsy subjective argument. Not far off the mark from the Russian state-controlled media.
Please provide independently corroborated factual data that conclusively proves it is impossible for the rebels to possess such a weapon.
Sure, the flight paths are known well in advance.
"Soon above the ukraine an air jet will be downed, full of innocent euro-tourists. This will be the excuse to officially invite NATO. So I see." -- 17th June 2014
So what did you say about seers, @Maounique.
Since Twitter is such a reliable source of intelligence information, if you read it on Twitter, it must be true!
That's not purported to be intelligence, that's just some analysis and prediction which ended up coming exactly true, and about exactly one month later, it's almost eerie. And twitter is actually useful in this case as the source of a tamper-proof timestamp, it's not like they would mess with the tweet date/time to help rebels.
I guess if you say it then it must be true, because you are not biased and you only speak fact and truth.
I get that, but that kind of thing happens by random chance on a daily basis.
What of the Twitter post supposedly by the rebels claiming they shot down a plane, which was later deleted? What makes this Twitter post more likely to be relevant than that? I take either with a grain of salt.
I can't tell you who did what yet for sure, but until we have conclusive evidence, my suspicions lean towards where logic points.
I have purported no truth, only logical interpretations of available data not procured from social media.
Oh okay, so you're with me then.
"Rebels are not and never were in possession of any Buk or S-300 military hardware" -- Vitaly Yaryoma, General Prosecutor of Ukraine
"Ukrainian Buk battery radar was operational when Malaysian plane downed" -- Russian Defense Ministry
So far this uncoordinated attempt to frame rebels or Russia seems to be backfiring horribly for the Ukraine.
"Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaly Yarema said the militia never captured missile systems "Buk" and C-300. "
Not exactly the most impartial source of data. Where else has this been independently corroborated? Not saying it's impossible, but I have yet to see any credible organization verify this.
To you it's more logical that the Ukrainian government thought they could frame the rebels while the world watches, than the rebels (who have been shooting down planes lately) accidentally shot down the plane?
They aren't forced to fly over Ukraine, it's just the shortest path for their route. They're advised to fly over 32,000ft and was flying at 33,000.
British Airways don't fly over Ukraine and many other countries in conflict by choice.
They dont need to capture anything, that is merely to reduce Ukraine's fighting capabilities not because they need those Russia supplies newer and better equipment, however, seems the battery got in the hands of mercenaries somehow instead of reaching the special forces or the safeties were not in place and some stupid/drunken fuck saw a target. You know we have a saying here, when you handle a big hammer everything looks like nails.
Ron Paul advises everyone not to jump the gun and start firing guns at Russia, the self-defense forces, the Kiev regime or the USA as there are a lot of propaganda out there.
We just got to wait and see.
For what? Propaganda will blame UN and the comission of russian-haters, it will be like about gaza, all people who see it as it is are "anti-semitic". Even here we have examples of those :P
Facts are pretty clear:
1. The plane came from the west, therefore was an enemy plane for some and friendly for others;
2. Logical assumptions that the "rebels" which are a crazy mix of special forces, mercenaries, extreme right volunteers from russia and locals are uncoordinated and few have the training to operate such a complex piece of weaponry gifted to them by mother russia are confirmed by the fact they bragged about it on social media as well as by the intercepted phones (even tho i doubt those and that is no evidence (except from the social media stuff) but all point in the same direction;
3. Ukraine has ground control operators and is always in contact with planes going over it, the only ones having no clue were the "rebels";
4. Ukraine is winning now that NATO is supervising the weapon and troops movements on the border and can show proof at any time for russian involvement, also, Putin will not risk a real war, Russia not only that cannot afford it, but even if it could, it will mean his end in politics Russians are all proud of the crimean conquest, but are already upset by the ground "lost" in the other parts of Ukraine they understand it so far as necessary to avoid a real war with millions of victims, but will have no mercy if that war happens and, as expected, Russia will lose it. The only thing keeping the Ukainians from chasing the "rebels" back to russia is the fear Putin will use the inevitable civilian casualties as a pretext to complicate the matters, as it is now, it is only a matter of time without russian official army there, the mobilization and support from the west is growing while even the people in the russian held territories of eastern Ukraine are beginning to doubt the legitimacy of their "leaders" with "terrorists" (as they call the chechens due to their attempt to gain freedom) as mercenaries. The propaganda war is lost for russia, was so before this incident, Ukraine would have had nothing to gain and risk everything, while Russia could have blamed it on Ukrainians and manage to stem the flow of international condemnation if done right, but they botched it badly. I can bet 10:1 the proof will be against Russia, the origin of the missiles system will be found and it will be a public relations disaster, Russia might even lose what it considered safe from that it occupies in Ukraine, NATO might not hold their end of the bargain given the public outcry. In the best case scenario, foreign monitorization will take place and it will be hard for russians to chase the ukrainians or tartars, not to mention they will even have to give the impression of democracy and free elections there. A real referendum under international supervision might be necessary, and when not under the gun, people will vote for real.
There seems to be a rout among the russian forces in eastern Ukraine, fully loaded trains are going east from Donetsk, whole towns are being liberated by the Ukrainian forces, with all this media access there, it was no longer possible for Russia to hide their troops and weapons, Putin decided to withdraw and the gangsters which were running the shots there are now facing capture if they do not flee over the border soon. In a few days eastern ukraine will be free, next step crimea.
You're sooo cute
In other news, there is now solid proof it's the UA weaponry that was deployed in the region just days before the crash... http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/ Ukrainians are really sooo stupid, they thought they can cover this up. The billboard fuck-up is especially hilarious.
Ukraine has all rights to deploy any weapon in their country, it is Russia which does not have this right in Ukraine, not without a war declaration, not without observing the rules of war, if russia wants parts of Ukraine should declare war and go take it. We dont like the choice of the Ukrainian people, we declare war. Crimea is NOT a done deal, NATO might be forced to call off the deal with Putin, even if he withdraws from Donetsk as it seems right now.
It's funny when people link a biased Russian article and uses that as their "proof" that Ukraine did it.
Well, you can argue everything is biased.
It's funny that people are saying things like
when in fact, if it's true that Ukraine intentionally shot down the plane to place the blame on pro-Russia rebels, they're certainly doing a good job of "covering it up".
Mkay you go watch "unbiased" CNN etc, they won't traumatize their viewers with the truth.
But one has to wonder, there are satellite photos in that article, how a photo can be biased? And unlike some staged video where your car drives across your road in your city, you can't hope to get away with faking those, simply because it's not just Russia that has satellite surveillance capabilities, photos from other satellites could trivially disprove all of this and deal a serious blow to any further arguments from RU. But so far no actual data from the US, despite claims they have satellite data on missile launch etc etc.
It's falling apart like a house of cards. They know it and are getting desperate. I suspect even the US secretly knows that the Ukraine did it. Hence the US propaganda machine going full on, with lots of accusations but little to no actual facts.
@rm_ said:
State controlled media, your #1 source for unbiased and factual information presented in a neutral manner!
And, from Bellingcat:
..and the Guardian..