New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
Comments
Although I have been in the community for a long time, I decided not to vote.
I am pretty sure, many hosts have voted for the limit to be changed to $10. I am very positive about this.
Yes, it could be great to get more income, but realistically speaking - it is only $3 increase. It does make a difference for LE* hosts, but not that much either.
It is one of those scenarios .. damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Off of the votes, i'd say keep it the way it is. If hosts from exotic locations want to provide deals, they can. It just means the vps specs would be real lowend and for a cap of $7.
I hope democracy wins.
Yes, yes, we're all greedy, slimy, SOBs...
It's not about the $7 limit specifically, it's about the fact that some artificial limit should not define this community and also about the other fact that if the limit is removed we will have more varied and interesting offers that reside in the realm of possibility and reality. 4GB OpenVZ and 6GB OpenVZ or whatever for under $10/mo. is not a realistic proposition. The screwed up thing about this is that while the customer knows what he is buying (VPS on oversold nodes like there is no tomorrow), he lies to himself until the shit hits the fan and then he's back here all pissed and bitching about how he got bad service from XYZ provider. This is what this artificial limit has spawned.
Now, does anyone know why Scott set the limit to $7 so many years ago?
And I hope @mpkossen understands that even if any option wins by a slight margin, it is not a conclusive vote (like it would've been with "90/10" or "everyone agrees"), especially with opinions polarized like that, i.e. half of the userbase is basically telling you that the change would ruin the site for them; and voting in favour you have 1) providers 2) people who don't really care one way or the other. You can't base such a change from the status quo just on one option in a random open vote getting 10% more that another.
And yet it works and attracts universally happy customer reviews:
http://lowendbox.com/tag/vpsdime/
Maybe offers like these just require some skill and competence from the provider to pull off?
And you want to make LEB more welcoming to inept hosts who barely can install SolusVM, then copycat someone else's website and start selling without ever using their brain in the process? Not sure this is the kind of provider we want to welcome here.
Some locations (ie: Australia) are rather expensive, it's as simple as that. You're not going to see a 4GB RAM KVM offer (without overselling) in Australia at the $7 mark. You can see it in the USA however, from reputable companies; due to the nonexistent line cost, power cost, and cooling/heating cost (cheap local hardware.)
By the way, this always makes me wonder... RAM is so much more expensive in Australia?
I heard about the bandwidth issues, but nothing about the special Australian RAM.
And apparently it has to be produced locally, so you can't import a couple of RAM sticks from the US?
Or maybe that humongous 4.6% import tax prevents you from doing so?
Not the RAM that is expensive, but all hardware to get to Australia is pretty expensive (phone Web24 and ask an Inside Sales member what they pay for hardware, then repeat the same test with ColoCrossing for example; huge difference there.)
I don't see what it would hurt to have a non-lowend category for offers more than $7; don't even have to show the offers on the main site, keep it in it's own little bubble.
Careful, having an opinion like that might get you screamed right off the site given the whole-hearted "opinions" in this thread so far against the idea.
I just linked you to a document describing import tax rates in AU, nothing outrageous or even out of the ordinary, it's not like Brazil or Argentina (I think?) where they pay 200-300% tax on tech imports.
Line speed is INCREDIBLY expensive (try getting 1Gbps in Aus, just try.)
Cooling is a lot harder when the ambient temperature is 40C
Power is pretty expensive as well
None of these have any relation to just having one more stick of RAM in a server. (and don't start on how it "needs to be cooled in ambient temperature 40C")
But all that aside, most importantly, we don't need 4GB of RAM offers in the AU. This is lowendbox, a site on doing more with less, so current offers that we have within $7 for about 512MB KVM in AU are more than fine.
Take it from me, an Australian. Hardware is more EXPENSIVE here. For the end user, for the business and yes, for the datacenter! You will not get cheap pricing. This argument is invalid...
If you honestly think that it's so easy to get a decent dedicated server, a Gbit line and IPs in Australia, why don't you try it?
Xeon E3-1225 V3 3.1Ghz / 8GB ECC DDR3 1333 / RAID 1 (2 Drives) 2 x 500GB RAID Edition Drives / Limited 1000GB / 10 GB Data Backup Daily Replications
$399.00 @ http://www.serversaustralia.com.au/
That's not too expensive, right? Obviously we can sell 1GB KVMs @ $7 right? Yeah, no.
And then we have the cost of IPs: 5 IP Addresses (add $22.00) Oh, and did I mention the number of IPs are limited too?!
$399 + $22 = $421 / 5 = $84.2 for a 1GB KVM (maximum of 5 on one machine)
Now the IPv6 argument!
To get close to selling off the node, you'd need to sell at least 61 servers @ $7.
128mb RAM/8 GB HDD/16 GB BW @ $7! Everyone will love it!
Yeah, good luck dude.
That's why I said, the 4GB marker is not the issue; but everything else you get on a 4GB offer. The port speed you'd expect, bandwidth, etcetera.
Community expectations are outrageous for exotic locations. The $2 offer in Africa doesn't help these either. A loss leader leads to false hope, and turns the entire market on its' head (which is far too easy to do her on LET.)
If I post an 8GB RAM offer next month for $1, it would destroy the market, as many people would try and copy my offer. The only real question is: could I keep it up, would it destroy me too?
That's where this undercutting game has to find some reasonable means of self-stabilizing. Supply/demand is never stable, so of course the price point would be just as stable; but someone should really draw a line on it.
That and, the $7 limit makes OpenVZ look far more attractive than it needs to be, I could offer 128GB OpenVZ containers, and most people wouldn't even use 1GB on it. The jig would only be up once someone "abuses" their container, and uses the whole allotment (or tries to.) A 4GB OpenVZ offer at $7 is reasonable, but a 4GB KVM offer at $7 is actually at the point where I would make more money offering the service for free*.
How does this make sense?
@rm_ I'm with you there bud, just trying to see both sides of the coin :-) Truth be told, @craigb was right: customers aren't blind, they will see higher end offers and discern between crap and quality on their own.
Whoop, hold your horses right there! It would have been perfectly fine if a high-RAM offer (if one arises) in AU would have much less b/w than in the USA. Everyone would understand that, and not require typical US-sized b/w allocations in AU. 4GB of RAM with 300-500 GB bandwidth? Fine, people who need so much RAM for whatever reason, will sign right up. And I'm not sure your average Minecraft server, etc, needs terabytes of b/w per month either.
Not sure which one you mean, if Host1plus, I think everyone's aware of their rather questionable reputation. On the other hand, an $5 offer in South Africa from VPSNine seems to exist for a long time and operate successfully. And guess what, $5 is still within the $7 limit.
No it would not, because anyone sane (and you'd be surprised by how many sane people are around) would wait for reviews, wait for you to gain the same spotless reputation as VPSDime, Prometeus or WaveRide, before trusting you to pull off cheap high-RAM offer successfully.
I'm still not sure what you're going on about. Members of LowEndBox are longing to buy themselves a very modest, low-end, 4 GIGABYTES OF RAM KVM VPS? And for that, the concept of the website needs to be changed to accomodate the pricier ultra high-spec offers?
I never said that LowEndBox needs to have a higher price point even, (especially not in the US, where $7 can get you a modest dedicated server; let alone a VPS...) but for other countries (again, Australia); it's not possible.
In Australia, for $40/mo; you're looking at the following (reasonably):
CPU: Celeron/Pentium/something else old
RAM: 1,2,4,6,8 GB of RAM (maybe)
Bandwidth: < 1TB
Port: 10Mbps (maybe, probably not even duplex.) 100Mbps if you're lucky, shared.
IPs would cost $4-$30 per IPv4, no IPv6 possible without tunneling.
--
This is for a dedicated server, for a VPS... it's even funnier.
Wait. How the hell do you get a dedi in Australia for $40/mth?! Where?
I voted to keep the status quo, simply because I see plenty of providers here who also offer more expensive plans well beyond the $7 limit on their own websites. Posting at LEB/LET doesn't mean all of your other plans also have to fall within the limits in order to be allowed, and it's not like there is a written law where the specs must have a minimum of 3GB RAM etc. all for $7 and less or that everyone is on the lookout for these sorts of plans. There are lots of people who are just as happy simply buying 128/256mb plans with way less disk space and bandwidth and those can easily fall within the $7 limit, no? Will they be marked higher than identical plans in the US? Sure, but people who actually want that particular location for good reason will understand why that is.
I think what matters more in the grand scheme of things is how well the servers run and how reputable the providers are. If your lowend boxes garner favourable reviews, people will be a lot more inclined to upgrade their plans or give your higher priced plans a try. And if a provider truly can't afford to devote resources to create some lowend plans due to high costs... why are they looking to post at a place that is called lowend in the first place?
replace "KVM" with "Xen" and say that again :-)
Uhm, actually @GoodHosting should say it again :-)
The $7 limit should stay in place. Never mind that Scott set it to oblige Brandon back in the day. That was the true reason why it was set. It had nothing to do with creating a community around a simple idea or an ideal. The irony is that Brandon managed to run his business into the ground by following, implementing and applying his own rules that no one else forced on him.
@rm_ I doubt anything will change. I am not a person who likes compromises or middle of the road solutions. I'd rather stay the same than see some exceptions for $10 plans or whatever. We either have the same rule for everyone or we don't. That's my entire point.
I can confirm that, BR/AR are horrible import tax wise if you even get your HW in.
AU is really not that bad even in world comparsion (5%)
Probably this... http://lowendbox.com/blog/hello-world/, and this... http://lowendbox.com/blog/you-get-what-you-paid-for-sometimes/.
So we are fixing something that's not broken?
Where does eNetSouth fit into all this?
Does increasing the price limit prevents future eNetSouths?
make it $5
\o/
Mu conclusion: I strongly believe that we all need to work together to improve this community. AS far as this issues is concerned I doubt that it will be answered, let alone resolved, in this thread. And that is if it's even an issue. The bottom line: if everyone's happy with how things are now then lets let them be.
The underlying theme I see is that LEB has turned into a "all you can eat for 7USD" buffet where we gorge ourselves on stuff we don't need. The agenda has switched from "getting the most out of well chosen, but minimally resourced VPS" to just "getting the most". Anyone (with the economic means) can spend 7 bucks on a server...but it takes effort, skill and some determination to make good use of a true LEB. This is LowEndBesity ;p
P.S Off to cancel some new school LEBs I don't use...
I agree that this website is geared to target a specific market and should not be altered. However, on that same note, I believe pushing it to $9 would not work against that vision.
I like this suggestion. Assuming the company has been in business for longer than a year.
This is a community based decision though, so don't take my opinion for anything more than a suggestion.
Thoughts?
Yearly limit base on LEB experiences and has been created so that people in foolishes wouldn't prepay fortune to hosts and then come to LEB complaining how it support scam and what not. Those rules were partially lifted recently, allowing to new hosts to also sell yearlies at LEB under condition that those aren't above $15 (established hosts $48/yealy).
Now if it's just about selling and making business... we can go there too, but my opinion is that promote and encourage (in LEB terms) huge prepayments is right opposite from primal "learn and share" community awareness ideas and it does not look better than lets say preaching how backups aren't necessary.
"choose wisely, don't prepay too much" - is message we should support, not "now is possible to make even more bucks at LEB/LET".
Many exciting new ideas I have, ever, how I bring them up, always I get same response: don't change anything is what we really want, just look different and stay the same. A small minority huge voice has, louder voice don't make it right. I say be zen and get along, so do change nothing, leave everything the same and on move ... on. Live life and happy be...
So, what's going on here?