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user complaints to HostBrr - Page 4
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user complaints to HostBrr

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Comments

  • @labze said:

    @nillyhan said:

    @labze said:

    @horasjey said:
    It's really sad how hostbrr solves problems this way :-)

    canceling the service without providing a good solution for the client> @JasonM said:

    @horasjey said: I need my other website data which is being hosted on that VPS

    probably, any host, if deletes your VPS, your data is gone!!!
    had it been shared hosting you could have got backups, but i suppose no provider takes VPS backups (unless they are offered in the plan).

    It is unfortunate that you see it this way. I try to be as lenient as possible with clients breaking the TOS, as it might come down to an honest mistake. I forwarded the intial abuse complaint to you and explained the situation. Your response was that your domains no longer resolve to the server. I took your word in good faith and unsuspended your service.

    At this point, you knew you were hosting problematic content and had every chance to backup your data. Unfortunately I didn't just get a new DMCA notice for another website I also got a message that the old notice were not handled and it if was still active within 24 hours the node would be suspended until resolved.

    From here my only resolution was to terminate your service. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't afford to give you the time to do backups considering you had Terabytes worth of data which would at least take several hours for you to backup. I rather not risk having 30 or so other clients getting their service taken offline so a person who reapeatedly broke the TOS and lied could get backups of illegal material.

    So to sum this up. You got a good solution. Your service was unsuspended but you decided to keep breaking the TOS instead of fixing the issue. The data is gone as termination permanently erases all data from the VPS.

    I have some questions just to be sure. If my service plan comes with an offsite backup ability included (which I believe comes with all hostbrr plans for what I've seen), can I download that backup after my vps is terminated?

    If someone is using a dedicated server, he's the only person in that node, so there should be no fear of other clients facing downtime in that node for him. For such cases, would you be able to give the clients more time and window for discussions? Because honestly, some DMCA or C&D notices are just pure crap (eg, how nitter instances get dmca'd even though it's only a proxy) and might need longer discussions to be resolved.

    In regards to the first question, I'd say most likely not. I don't have the habit of terminating the service without interacting with the client first, so in most cases I would likely give the client the chance to backup the data themselves by unsuspending the service. Just like I did in this case. However, this gesture of good faith was taken advantage of, and in those cases I do not give second chances, nor would I go through the troubles to restore a backup file and upload it for someone. In any case, the client would need to be able to virtualize the backup image himself or get another VPS provider willing to mount such a image to even get anything from it which I'd say is not doable for the vast majority.

    When I get a DMCA notice I get a quite detailed description of what content is being shared. For a VPS or Dedicated the procedure would be the same most of the way. One thing is the entire node being suspended, that of course would be bad as that would cause downtime for many people. The other thing is if I fail to abide by the abuse messages I receive I will most likely get in worse standing with the datacenter. That is not a situation I wish either.

    Lmaoooo now to think about it. OP thought he did a sneaky pro move and got his VPS restored cuz of it, when in fact, he didn't and labze only restored his node to let OP make backups lol

  • @strictlyparmesan said:

    labze only restored his node to let OP make backups lol

    No, labze had fully restored his vps believing he took care of the thing, as in, taking steps so that the copyrighted content can no longer be accessed through hostbrr/hetzner IP. It wasn't just so that he could take a backup.

  • @Daniel15 said:
    Torrent sites don't distribute the content either. They just point to trackers, which then point to the IPs that have the actual data. There's plenty of caselaw stating that simply linking to infringing content located elsewhere is not in itself a violation of DMCA.

    Although the Torrent site itself may not store illegal content directly, but by providing access or assistance in finding illegal content, they participate in the distribution or facilitation of access to the content, which can be considered as a violation of copyright or other laws.

  • @nillyhan said:

    @strictlyparmesan said:

    labze only restored his node to let OP make backups lol

    No, labze had fully restored his vps believing he took care of the thing, as in, taking steps so that the copyrighted content can no longer be accessed through hostbrr/hetzner IP. It wasn't just so that he could take a backup.

    Nonetheless it was funny, hetzner is widely known to be notorious with DMCA stuff. Blud didn't do enough research.

  • labzelabze Member, Patron Provider

    @nillyhan said:

    @strictlyparmesan said:

    labze only restored his node to let OP make backups lol

    No, labze had fully restored his vps believing he took care of the thing, as in, taking steps so that the copyrighted content can no longer be accessed through hostbrr/hetzner IP. It wasn't just so that he could take a backup.

    Indeed. The service would have remained active if he did not violate the TOS once more.

    @arachi004 said:

    @Daniel15 said:
    Torrent sites don't distribute the content either. They just point to trackers, which then point to the IPs that have the actual data. There's plenty of caselaw stating that simply linking to infringing content located elsewhere is not in itself a violation of DMCA.

    Although the Torrent site itself may not store illegal content directly, but by providing access or assistance in finding illegal content, they participate in the distribution or facilitation of access to the content, which can be considered as a violation of copyright or other laws.

    It's pretty clear that even just linking to copyrighted material can be grounds for action, you do not need to host it. Plenty of cases from within Europe where the defendant has lost the case in these lawsuits even though they never downloaded or shared any real content but merely was a gateway to where to get the torrent files.

    Thanked by 1kasuganosora
  • JasonMJasonM Member
    edited December 2023

    @nillyhan said: For such cases, would you be able to give the clients more time and window for discussions? Because honestly, some DMCA or C&D notices are just pure crap (eg, how nitter instances get dmca'd even though it's only a proxy) and might need longer discussions to be resolved.

    EU and US have both safeguards against fake/false DMCA notices. Most bots send such DMCA if they trigger words related to their customers' brands. In US you can take down the content for fasle DMCA, file a counter notice, wait for 7 days to get reply from the complainant that they're approaching court (in 100% of cases where you are not infringer) you'll not get reply from them, then as per DMCA law you can restore back your content, and your host/upstream also has to restore it. In EU you can also restore your content after filing counter-notice and not getting court's notice.

    For geniue complaints/DMCA, say, if its EU or US, you'll have to take down content in 12-24 hours. But in my personal opinion, US has more safeguards for intermediaries (like hetzner/hostbrr/isp) and infringers, than EU. EU is more strict about it and leans upon the complainant side. Also, that's one of the reason you can't host "Free speech" sites in EU but can happliy host in U.S.

    There is in-detail 40 pages word document by WIPO related to EU and US DMCA.. if anyone wants to read in-depth.. here's the link:

    https://www.wipo.int/edocs/mdocs/mdocs/en/osp_lia/osp_lia_3.doc

    @Daniel15 said: Torrent sites don't distribute the content either. They just point to trackers, which then point to the IPs that have the actual data. There's plenty of caselaw stating that simply linking to infringing content located elsewhere is not in itself a violation of DMCA.

    right. Linking is not violation of DMCA, but embedding is.

    Also one weird thing: I've read one US case of DMCA, wherein, the infringer copied coyprighted images and put on his site, and on each image he put smiley :D icon, which gave him right of "parody" and so his content was not infringing one.

    @labze said: Plenty of cases from within Europe where the defendant has lost the case in these lawsuits even though they never downloaded or shared any real content but merely was a gateway to where to get the torrent files.

    Yes, agree.
    EU is strict about it. US DMCA has those safeguards.

  • @JasonM said:

    @nillyhan said: For such cases, would you be able to give the clients more time and window for discussions? Because honestly, some DMCA or C&D notices are just pure crap (eg, how nitter instances get dmca'd even though it's only a proxy) and might need longer discussions to be resolved.

    EU and US have both safeguards against fake/false DMCA notices. Most bots send such DMCA if they trigger words related to their customers' brands. In US you can take down the content for fasle DMCA, file a counter notice, wait for 7 days to get reply from the complainant that they're approaching court (in 100% of cases where you are not infringer) you'll not get reply from them, then as per DMCA law you can restore back your content, and your host/upstream also has to restore it. In EU you can also restore your content after filing counter-notice and not getting court's notice.

    For geniue complaints/DMCA, say, if its EU or US, you'll have to take down content in 12-24 hours. But in my personal opinion, US has more safeguards for intermediaries (like hetzner/hostbrr/isp) and infringers, than EU. EU is more strict about it and leans upon the complainant side. Also, that's one of the reason you can't host "Free speech" sites in EU but can happliy host in U.S.

    There is in-detail 40 pages word document by WIPO related to EU and US DMCA.. if anyone wants to read in-depth.. here's the link:

    https://www.wipo.int/edocs/mdocs/mdocs/en/osp_lia/osp_lia_3.doc

    Thanks for the explanation. I suppose I am good to go when I am hit with false strike, or mistake of the bot. But what worries me is that, from what I have seen in most cases, the complainants don't care about fare usage and intentions. Say I have written a blog article about animation and used a small cartoon clip/webm to emphasize what I wrote. If sony strikes me on that, they won't listen that I am not pirating their content, rather it's just a fare usecase. There are numerous examples of such things happening everyday. Though, my optimism wants to believe this could be solved through proper communication if complainant parties are interested to spend some time in discussing and reading what the defendant has to say, hence I was asking about extended time.

    @Daniel15 said: Torrent sites don't distribute the content either. They just point to trackers, which then point to the IPs that have the actual data. There's plenty of caselaw stating that simply linking to infringing content located elsewhere is not in itself a violation of DMCA.

    right. Linking is not violation of DMCA, but embedding is.

    I think it's about what you are linking or to what source. Like, if I am linking a manga/comic to mangaplus (an official site owned by shueisha publishing company), that shouldn't be an issue. But if I link that to mangadex (a pirated manga/comics site), it should be a problem. Or am I getting it wrong?

  • MumblyMumbly Member
    edited December 2023

    @JasonM EU is not a country. Every european country have some sort of laws to regulate infringements of intellectual property, but copyright law can vary greatly from country to country. EU is not just Germany.
    Something what's illegal in your part of the world can be perfectly legal where I live and vice versa.


    (I am not sure how much up-to-date is this, but you get a good idea what I am talking about.)

  • @Mumbly said:
    @JasonM EU is not a country. Every european country have some sort of laws to regulate infringements of intellectual property, but copyright law can vary greatly from country to country. EU is not just Germany.
    Something what's illegal in your part of the world can be perfectly legal where I live and vice versa.


    (I am not sure how much up-to-date is this, but you get a good idea what I am talking about.)

    He meant countries in european union in general, who need to abide by the EU copyright directives. It was beyond obvious.

    And yes, even though all EU countries have to abide by the directives, some countries may differ on the specificities and enforcements. Germany is very strict when it comes to that.

    Thanked by 1JasonM
  • @nillyhan said: And yes, even though all EU countries have to abide by the directives, some countries may differ on the specificities and enforcements. Germany is very strict when it comes to that.

    It still varies how are those directives translated into local legislation. It's impossible to talk about one uniform strictness as long as I am still allowed to do legally something that people from another EU state aren't allowed.
    There's no such thing as "EU is more strict about it and leans upon the complainant side" as long complaints to my ISP end in their thrash bin.

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