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PSA: Provider Tag Fee Implementation - Page 2
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PSA: Provider Tag Fee Implementation

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Comments

  • KermEdKermEd Member
    edited March 2022

    @jbiloh said:
    Reaching a common, sustainable, ground is important for the long term success and growth of the community.

    I know change can be startling but this will end up being a net positive.

    Removing you is the quickest way to sustainability. Give the forum to someone else, and it will immediately become sustainable with a common ground. The only reason we are having this discussion is because of you.

    You want us to give you money to turn LET into something we don’t want. No one here wants to pay you to create videos - this isn’t YouTube.

    I come here to see someone who has almost nothing build up a small host, pinch every penny they can, go without sleep creating a unique brand and earning trust in a community. I come here for the gullos, and people who run costs low enough that yeah $200/year is not fair to them. I don’t come here for the Colo favourite of the year RackNerd, taking their 50,000th client that week. Besides, you charge them for using your servers, for their ads, etc. I don’t even know where to begin with the flaws in this idea for LET.

  • @stevewatson301 said:
    What is savage is that he edited the latter part of my post containing Adblock rules for LET that aren't there in Easylist, as well as a link to OGF.

    Welcome to North Korea!

    Thanked by 2bulbasaur taizi
  • QuantumCoreQuantumCore Member, Host Rep

    @jbiloh said: We know this was an unexpected fee

    Because all providers were totally expecting an invoice for a service that they didn't purchase.

    Wouldn't you make it opt in so the people that wanted an invoice got one instead of blindly sending an invoice that made users question whether it was spam/phishing?

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @KermEd said: If we remove you, your greed, and trying to spend a fortune on stuff we don’t care about - is the quickest way to sustainability. Give the forum to someone else, and it will immediately become sustainable with a common ground.

    The only reason for this price fix is so you can profit off it, because you want to spend money turning LET into something we don’t want. No one here wants to pay you to create videos. Go peddle your Colo videos on YouTube if you think that matters to people.

    I understand your position that less is more and that you don't want to see any progress towards enhancing the platform.

    If we don't evolve and grow then the future is less promising.

    Maybe just give it a chance to succeed?

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @QuantumCore said: Because all providers were totally expecting an invoice for a service that they didn't purchase.

    Wouldn't you make it opt in so the people that wanted an invoice got one instead of blindly sending an invoice that made users question whether it was spam/phishing?

    In addition to the stickied thread in the providers section an email notice should have gone out ahead of time. This was an error and we will do better. I am sorry about that.

  • bulbasaurbulbasaur Member
    edited March 2022

    @jbiloh said: I understand your position that less is more and that you don't want to see any progress towards enhancing the platform.
    If we don't evolve and grow then the future is less promising.

    The problem is that LET's value is limited to just being a forum. You can try to run it like a business and do all these different things and "maximize revenue", but then it would fail to perform its function as a forum.

    I'd recommend that you read Seeing Like A State. Your thinking is falling into a reductionist trap that this book talks about in a lot of detail.

  • @jbiloh said: The LowEndTalk and LowEndBox platform is expensive to operate after considering hosting infrastructure, ddos protection, personnel, administrative office overhead, and all other costs.

    Time to review your expenditure.

    @jbiloh said: In part due to this new fee you can expect to see more content at LowEndBox and LowEndTalk,

    Don't care about that.

    more giveaways, more interviews

    Actually, that either.

    an improved LowEndBox theme that conforms with the new WP standards,

    No benefit to LET.

    updates to the current version of Vanilla here at LowEndTalk,

    Well that is expensive. Will we be able to ignore threads?

    new YouTube video content

    Please don't.

    and a few new content creators to help enhance our overall value proposition.

    So basically the more of stuff which caused me to unsubscribe from LEB notifications.

  • @jbiloh said:

    I understand your position that less is more and that you don't want to see any progress towards enhancing the platform.

    If we don't evolve and grow then the future is less promising.

    Maybe just give it a chance to succeed?

    You don’t understand my position, you never asked any of us for our positions. You literally posted this thread after invoicing the providers because you don’t give a shit what the users think and you never have.

    so no, fuck that, I’m not letting you profit off our backs. I couldn’t give a shit what videos you want to record and the ads you have planned for RackNerd. And I am not Ok with you passing those costs onto some tiny host trying to build up for the first time.

    Give me a platform that allows a provider to start with practically nothing on an even playing field with a million dollar company - not a platform building incremental paywalls to create the haves and the have nots - that is not LET. In fact, that is exactly the kind of thing LEB/LET used to call out in predatory companies.

    I have no interest in this expensive vision of yours. I am not waiting for anything from you - that trust was broken the moment you started injecting paywalls. I have no idea where that greed is going to go 12 months from now, and I have zero interest in following it.

    Maybe you should lock this thread, edit a bunch of posts again, and launch a third one…

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @stevewatson301 said: The problem is that LET's value is limited to just being a forum. You can try to run it like a business and do all these different things and "maximize revenue", but then it would fail to perform its function as a forum.

    I'd recommend that you read Seeing Like A State. Your thinking is falling into a reductionist trap that this book talks about in a lot of detail.

    I appreciate your opinion and your passion. I am absorbing your thoughts and will continue to think on things.

    @KermEd said: Give me a platform that allows a provider to start with practically nothing on an even playing field with a million dollar company - not a platform building incremental paywalls to create the haves and the have nots - that is not LET. In fact, that is exactly the kind of thing LEB/LET used to call out in predatory companies.

    I have no interest in this expensive vision of yours. I am not waiting for anything from you - that trust was broken the moment you started injecting paywalls. I have no idea where that greed is going to go 12 months from now, and I have zero interest in following it.

    I understand your position. Will take your opinions under consideration.

    I'd just ask you to consider giving it a chance.

    After the last couple years and all the improvements and good things happening around LEB and LET at least a little patience (and a chance) might be worthwhile.

  • kdhkdh Member

    I think we didn't ask for giveaways that often. There are already giveways available by lots of providers, and they can do their own jobs. Adding a provider fee? That’ll only make current providers make less giveaways and great deals.

    Nobody asked for more interview with the same content: “hi im sunnerhost dot com and providing really awesome vps plz check website thx” - they’re all just ads.

    Updating Vanilla? I don’t think you need thousands of bucks per month to finally update Vanilla and to change titlebar color to #60a96d. It’s clearly not.

  • This is good. It will weed out the scammers and pay the bills that keep this place running.

  • @dahartigan said: This is good. It will weed out the scammers and pay the bills that keep this place running.

    Getting pimped with that aff cash from purple daddy?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Too much excitement in these comments. Stop to think about what's important, it's none of this. Anyone can make a website and if your feelings are so strongly shared, it won't be hard to fill your user database with peers.

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @dahartigan said: This is good. It will weed out the scammers and pay the bills that keep this place running.

    That is a good point.

  • KermEdKermEd Member
    edited March 2022

    @jbiloh said:
    I understand your position. Will take your opinions under consideration.

    I'd just ask you to consider giving it a chance.

    After the last couple years and all the improvements and good things happening around LEB and LET at least a little patience (and a chance) might be worthwhile.

    Fundamentally, there are several key reasons I cannot.

    1. Any financial paywall, no matter how small, creates financial exclusion. I cannot support a LET that prevents someone low income in a less weathy country from competing on equal footing with a well off company. This is a financial barrier to some enough so they will not launch on LET, and I don't want to be part of an exclusionary low end platform.

    2. This only works because users (like me) but things from hosts (on here). We have a saying at my company - nothing about them, without them. Nthr fact this was rolled out without consulting the users who make this possible - tells me you don't care about any of us and never will.

    3. I do not believe that charging providers, who are tired, overworked, and overtaxed, a 'special fee' is an appropriate monetization strategy not a smart one. A tiered ad system for premium providers, special category for them, etc where low revenue provides can still be on the platform is a must for me. I also think if the userbase + ad revenue isn't sufficient for the vision of the website then the vision should be scaled back and the userbase grown. Injecting a cost into the mix for providers is predatory to me.

    4. I am not OK with the way you edit people's posts, lock threads and so on. I find it offensive when moderators edit people's posts unnecessarily - and I am actually against mods renaming people's threads. What we type as a user should represent what we want to say. Knowing an owner of this website or a massive provider can manipulate the conversations so strongly and without justification or retaliation is not OK either.

    Anyway, I'm leaving the topic alone now and just logging out of LET for the first time in many years... I'm not sure this is going to change, so I'm not sure there is any more reason for me to be here. If in 3 or 4 months this policy is changed, I may come back. But by then I'll be pretty invested in WHT. So we will see I suppose.

  • @stevewatson301 said:

    @dahartigan said: This is good. It will weed out the scammers and pay the bills that keep this place running.

    Getting pimped with that aff cash from purple daddy?

    Nah. Think the likes of boomer who either can't afford the fee or is stupid enough to go all in and get the platinum package.

    Drama is more valuable than purple coins lol

  • Oh and wait to see who first invokes their ability to scrub a bad review..

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • @dahartigan said: Oh and wait to see who first invokes their ability to scrub a bad review..

    That already happens. Threads critical of purple daddy and PulsedMedia are already edited and/or scrubbed, ask @SirFoxy and @Sanjue007.

    Thanked by 1iKeyZ
  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran
    edited March 2022

    @KermEd said:
    1. Any financial paywall, no matter how small, creates financial exclusion. I cannot support a LET that prevents someone low income in a less weathy country from competing on equal footing with a well off company. This is a financial barrier to some enough so they will not launch on LET, and I don't want to be part of an exclusionary low end platform.

    1. This only works because users (like me) but things from hosts (on here). We have a saying at my company - nothing about them, without them. Nthr fact this was rolled out without consulting the users who make this possible - tells me you don't care about any of us and never will.

    2. I do not believe that charging providers, who are tired, overworked, and overtaxed, a 'special fee' is an appropriate monetization strategy not a smart one. A tiered ad system for premium providers, special category for them, etc where low revenue provides can still be on the platform is a must for me. I also think if the userbase + ad revenue isn't sufficient for the vision of the website then the vision should be scaled back and the userbase grown. Injecting a cost into the mix for providers is predatory to me.

    I think you raise some good points here.

    Tell me more about your idea of a tiered ad system.

    At current Host Reps can already participate in the Mega Threads. So they still have access to the biggest sales events of the year on the unified threads.

    Is there any amount of provider based contribution that you could support?

  • Did you plan to give salary to FAT32 because of this? :joy:

    He is pretty good for creating events on LET.

    Thanked by 2kkrajk afn
  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @ariq01 said: Did you plan to give salary to FAT32 because of this?

    He is pretty good for creating events on LET.

    He is excellent. I agree and he is an important part of the LET team.

  • I'm surprised there wasn't an introductory discount to ease the transition from $0/forever to $100/6 months.

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @chorong said:
    I'm surprised there wasn't an introductory discount to ease the transition from $0/forever to $100/6 months.

    There is.

  • HaBangNetHaBangNet Member, Host Rep

    We also receive the invoice and first impression was it a spam mail or that.

  • hyperblasthyperblast Member
    edited March 2022

    @jar said:
    Too much excitement in these comments. Stop to think about what's important, it's none of this. Anyone can make a website and if your feelings are so strongly shared, it won't be hard to fill your user database with peers.

    may i interpret your comment (as a provider) as meaning that you are happy with the introduction of a $16 monthly levy for providers, including its amount?

  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    @HaBangNet said:
    We also receive the invoice and first impression was it a spam mail or that.

    Sorry about that.

  • bulbasaurbulbasaur Member
    edited March 2022

    @jbiloh may I know why the thread about LET alternatives has been sunk?

    And why the fuck are you so evasive, can we get a clear yes/no answer whether @FAT32 would be paid with all the cash that you've been stuffing up your butt?

  • @jbiloh said: At current Host Reps can already participate in the Mega Threads. So they still have access to the biggest sales events of the year on the unified threads.

    Interesting choice of words, given the current situation I can only assume that will go away too at some point, probably before this year's BF.

    The end is nigh.

    Thanked by 1taizi
  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran
    edited March 2022

    @stevewatson301 said: Interesting choice of words, given the current situation I can only assume that will go away too at some point, probably before this year's BF.

    The end is nigh.

    Has more to do with it being very late on the East Coast USA where I am based and being ready for bed.

    I was talking with someone on Discord who was suggesting that Host Rep should have the ability to perhaps have more sales access -- hence why I used the words "current" and "still" -- because there was an active conversation about expanding the permissions for Host Reps. To be clear, Host Rep will not lose ability to participate in the Mega Threads as previously outlined.

    This is obviously a work in progress that needs some more refinement to make sure that the right balance is found. I am not too proud to make adjustments where necessary.

    Regarding your question about @FAT32, that's a personal question which I do not want to comment on directly beyond saying that overtures have been made.

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