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Well I think we will leave the review as is, at this stage it can only turn in to a shit storm, sinking this so it does not dominate attention and bring out the worst in people for a week, those that are really interested will still post when it's no longer on the first page.
A bit arbitrary. Don't u think? A review is a review and deserves its views.
Not arbitrary at all, in fact I stated the reasons pretty clearly.
i continue to mantain my words. You are a idiot ... ! open a chargeback withowt give me the posibility to see what is your problem . I am gald to not have you client . More if you push in the tiket this is go down in the list ... so you have been lucky to have my answer in 9 hours. Nothing more.
Op made a mistake. You should wait for 24 hours and work with the provider to fix the problems. If he says he will not help then you can open dispute but not like this. I think paypal should block china.
Edit: just ban the mdf
This is everything, but not a review. We all know what would happen if it was any other provider.
Although I disagree with some people who misuse the Paypal dispute resolution method.
But what do you do if you bought the service and the provider cannot allow you to use the service and there is no response?
I believe this must violate the TOS set by the provider himself.
Continue to wait until the provider responds to you? Or to exercise the rights of consumers?
The whole matter is obviously the mistake of the provider. Waiting for a long time to take rights, it is just a matter of POLITE, not a DUTY.
As a provider, please be clear about this.And don’t go to publish any statements that contain these low-level mistakes.
If you don't like Chinese people buying your stuff, write don’t accept Chinese customers in TOS directly.
This is a review of host's communication & civility (or lack thereof).
Though calling names on their end is not totally justified, I can't say it's completely wrong either. OP deserved it somehow.
And running directly to Paypal disputes? Is it really the case in China? That everybody tries to con you etc. that you guys are so used to just opening disputes?
Also, except for a handful of countries, nobody needs to have perfect English. As long as there is communication, it's OK.
If you have waited more than 9 hours and have given them time to fix stuff instead of
charging back,opening a dispute, your standing in the matter would've been completely different.Not a charge back, a dispute.
Fixed it (: Call me an idiot, but it's not too different in my eyes.
I have once gotten in on an offer of theirs. After getting the service up and running I realized that the speed to where I am was not ideal for me. I opened a ticket and they refunded me of their own good will.
Communication and patience...
Having a command over written English doesn't mean you're good at communicating...
You get nothing, @cociu get a dispute, and we chinese get worse reputation. Thanks! Dik!
I'm not that kind of host
"See you in the next HS did XYZ (or rather, did not do XYZ) in a few days."
And here we are again. Bash cociu a bit more, because you're perfect.
simple.
better get out of the hosting business and do something else.
like selling perfume maybe?
"..yo b*tch I didn't tell you'd smell like donkey with this perfume, but... do you have a sister?"
Another hostsolutions classic. I don't think OP is in the wrong though. We should try to understand the Chinese culture a bit more no matter how dickish/weird it seems from our 'Western' point of view. If you're not willing to (which I can totally understand), just don't sell to them. Don't try and profit from that particular clientbase if you're not also willing to cope with the downside of that choice.
Definitely can't agree with that dispute part.
Immediately avoiding customers that display fraudulent tendencies such as a dispute system instead of a support system, or worse, a chargeback which can get your payment processor closed and fees charged, is always the best bet.
Clearly he shouldn't have called him an idiot, but let's be honest, it's pretty idiotic to open a dispute within 24 hours of opening a support ticket. He could have thought it, but not said it, it's clearly unprofessional, but whatever, not the worst thing to say ever.
OP's nationality has very little to do with this. He is all "too young too simple, sometime naive." Should he had any experiences dealing with budget providers of such profound unprofessionalism, he would have lowered his expectations and gave them more time.
as a provider I think one should try to understand that customers are used to different kind of ways in communications and might include the paypal-dispute simply in that.
think of ebay who always taught people to only use their system for any kind of communication to be 'protected'. and there are a lot of other market places that do something similar.
a dispute still is not a chargeback so I can't see any fraudulent activities in trying to get your contractual partner to communicate. obviously the dispute made the provider react instantly, so why not just react positive to the customer, calm him down, prioritize and provide the paid service?
you know you can actually solve a dispute instead of escalating or refunding?
I totally agree on the part that customers often should be more patient, yet the provider could easily inform customers before ordering that they need to wait for manual provision at least 48h or whatever to simply avoid tickets and stuff in the first place.
especially if disputes hurt your paypal reputation and are something you want to avoid to be dealing with one should take actions before instead of shouting and crying afterwards.
tl;dr; be fucking honest about your business and procedures. it obviously doesn't help either side or gets you long-term customers if you raise wrong expectations.
in December last year i have blocked my paypal account for 3 different disputes with the follow imports : 3.99 eur-49 dollars-17.80 dollars , during 21 working days , this was paint full because i had much more balance than disputed amount . All this 3 disputes was opened without talk with us , no tickets, no nothing. More the import of 49 dollars was opened after the user was used the service in full without any ticket opened. NOW ... is pure wrong luck or don`t know , 2 of this dispute was chines people (is acostumbrated to do this due of some web page in Asia) ,,, but i think when you buy in another country you need to inform you at least and try to acostumbrate of this new country. Any way i am not racist for nothing, i hope china people (not all, but many of them) finnaly will understand is better to discuss and resolve all problems directly with the host before go and open disputes/chargeback (for me is the same because paypal is not cout separately ).
Also i have +500 chiness guys with active service and no problems at all...
I always tell the same , i am not a kiss ass , i cannot be , if you buy service and you espect to be kissed ...... try to avoid us.
In this tipical case ... the user was placed the order/payed , the whmcs module was faill in install (verry easy to resolve this by opening a tiket and wait your turn , not push in the tiket think you are the only client here) . Hi opened the tiket after 8-9 hours of autoprovisioning faill and let us no more than some seconds to responds (hi opened the dispute in the same time with the tiket 1-3 minutes distance) . So yes "maybe" my words was hard ... but what to use ? "retard" ?
The issue of PayPal disputes has been discussed here on LET a number of times, and it seems to be the case that many (though not all) Chinese don't always understand that a PayPal dispute is perceived as an aggressive, damaging act in the West, and that therefore, a PayPal dispute should always be considered a last-resort strategy, after normal communication attempts have failed.
In this respect, it's clear that the OP wasn't patient enough and started a PayPal dispute way too soon.
At the same time, I can also understand that if a customer orders a KVM from a provider, once the KVM is provisioned, the customer naturally has a heightened expectation that the KVM will actually work, and it can be frustrating to have to open a ticket about this right away and then wait 24+ hours to get a working KVM. (And frankly, it's anyone's guess whether 24 hours would have been enough: as @cociu wrote in the top ticket, "i hope you understand we have not post a limit time to respond in any ticket".)
@cociu was wrong to be rude, especially because the non-working KVM was (as far as we can determine) his company's fault, and not the OP's fault. In this case, @cociu should simply have refunded the OP's money without being rude.
in my case (at least i have called paypal and is tell me dispute/chargeback is count the same) is the same. Also please note , the paypal act verry different in different country
your (potential) customers most likely are not aware of that, how could they?
also paypal may not be the right choice as payment provider then?
essentially you're exposing yourself by telling here that a group of a few people could bring down your whole business by ordering some services and after a while putting in paypal disputes simultanously... (ofc that would be fraudulent)
I clearly understand that doing business as hosting provider without paypal probably isn't an option though. but I still think it is your responsibility to find a way to deal with whatever paypal presses onto you. it needs to be part of your business plan as any other risk should be.
also as said before... if there is a risk of automatic provisioning to fail, communicate that beforehand, if you are unable to answer tickets instantly - nothing wrong with that, but communicate it before and maybe also in the ticket system if the waiting times are longer than usual.
from his screenshots, he opened a ticket after ordering and only pushed it 8 hours later, probably in conjunction with opening a dispute at that time. while 8 hours still might be considered impatient you had more than a few minutes...
cociu, why don't you disable new kvm service orders in Whmcs, until you can get a better provisioning infrastructure for KVM?
Your ovz provisioning is better and works ok.
edit: background : I have had kvm service with hostsolutions in 2015, but it was slightly manual activation. So I do not recommend it for average visitor from internet.
While I agree he was very quick to open a dispute I can't really see where he was wrong? 9-10 hours without reply isn't exactly reassuring. He had perfectly good English and was very respectful in communication until he received a horrendously rude reply and reacted in the same manner...
At no point throughout did the customer deserve the abuse he received and I'm frankly surprised that people are supporting it...
Regardless of your location a dispute is a dispute and is used to report a problem with a purchase.
A chargeback is a different case entirely though.
If you are from different timezone, you may want to be a little more patience. Sometimes, when you are awake, the other side is sleeping or resting (not working), esp. from low end server provider. Not a lot of them have 24/7 staff. If you want fast and good service, please be ready to shell out more.
At the same time, you are right that you worried about the service because their main site is un-reachable...but do give at least one day.
Or maybe not to say rude things to begin with?
As @Falzo pointed out on the previous page, it's also possible to resolve a PayPal dispute with a customer. But once you say rude things, you make the problem worse.
This all depends on a number of important factors. The key factor is how much the user paid, and if his/her expectations are in line with the amount paid. You can't pay peanuts expecting 5 star service. That is just unreasonable. And bumping your ticket every 10 minutes isn't going to be helpful at all.
I'm not saying that what @Cociu did was right, it's certainly not a very professional thing to do. But then again, the LET segment of the market is not a professionals segment, and chargebacks are a douche move. @Cociu should not be name calling or making racists slurs, but hey, the OP seems to have deserved it actually. But 2 wrongs don't make a right, and in this case, neither have the 'high ground', so to speak.
This is a ridiculous statement, since you're basically supporting discrimination. It is not the service provider's responsibility to 'adapt' to 'Chinese culture'. It up to buyers to make sure their expectations are in alignment with the service they are buying. All a provider can (and should) do, is try to make clear what the service they are getting is.
We are not focused on the low end market, but we do have some low end services. We have a special page about our NAT VPS that make it extremely clear what you are getting. Actually we make our NAT services sound ridiculously crap, saying things like that they will get no guarantees what so ever, and the customer must expect ridiculously long downtime, no support, slow network, slow disk I/O, tiny CPU allowance etc. We litterally say that you get 1MB/s of disk I/O and 50kbit/s of network speed. I mean that's just ridiculously low, and we actually offer much much more, but we write it any way to lower the expectations of our client. And you know what? It doesn't work! They read it, and they ignore it, and still expect SSD disk performance and Gbit network speeds. And when I say they, I mean a minority (like 10%.). And I can tell you that disputes are a god damn pain in the arse because they cost time and money.
People who dispute without justification are, in my mind, fraudsters and generally scum of the earth! Now I don't know how justified the dispute was in the OP's case, but another charge-back from a Chinese person really doesn't help the image of Chinese people. And even if the dispute rate is only 10%, the costs borne by the providers are real and I can certainly understand why @Cociu acted the way he did, even if it's not something I agree with.