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US government sanctions Autistici Inventati, Italian pro-privacy email provider

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Comments

  • @forest said:

    @rpqu said:

    @forest said:
    This is getting a little too political in ways that have diverged from the topic. Let's try not to go too far lest the thread get closed or disappeared (again).

    I'd say that what A/I is admirable, sticking to their beliefs. But, they forgot they're not bulletproof — only their idea is bulletproof

    Thankfully they won't give up. They've existed for 25 years and they'll keep surviving. If anything, there's a real chance that all this news coverage will result in more donations, despite their bank kicking them out.

    I doubt that. Given that at least one of the listed organisations is also sanctioned by the EU, you would fuck yourself massively if you keep supporting them, while inside the EU, when its known they "suppport" them.

  • rpqurpqu Member

    @forest said:

    @rpqu said:

    @forest said:
    This is getting a little too political in ways that have diverged from the topic. Let's try not to go too far lest the thread get closed or disappeared (again).

    I'd say that what A/I is admirable, sticking to their beliefs. But, they forgot they're not bulletproof — only their idea is bulletproof

    Thankfully they won't give up. They've existed for 25 years and they'll keep surviving. If anything, there's a real chance that all this news coverage will result in more donations, despite their bank kicking them out.

    They instantly become persona non grata. Their best shot is to seek refuge in Russia like Snowden. Even obscure CN banks had hard time after processing kp/ru/ir tx.

  • WilliamWilliam Veteran

    @rpqu said: I'd say that what A/I is admirable, sticking to their beliefs. But, they forgot they're not bulletproof — only their idea is bulletproof

    I am not sure they forgot anything, what happens now is a very clear outlined process you need to deal with if you are not based in the US or willing to - possibly illegal - cooperate. Cant tell me Antifa IT gng does not have a law kid around.

  • forestforest Member

    @William said: Cant tell me Antifa IT gng does not have a law kid around.

    They aren't even antifa. Antifa just happened to use them for email.

  • WilliamWilliam Veteran

    @forest said: They aren't even antifa. Antifa just happened to use them for email.

    Anyone operating a service like this (specifically targeting privacy etc.) in Italy - even EU - is related to Antifa, the communists or another left organisation 95%. Seems here the same reading the blog. Thats fine, Antifa/Communists/... not being banned anyway, mostly an observation. In US privacy focused services tend to be right owned instead.

    Thanked by 1hyperblast
  • rpqurpqu Member

    @William said:

    @rpqu said: I'd say that what A/I is admirable, sticking to their beliefs. But, they forgot they're not bulletproof — only their idea is bulletproof

    I am not sure they forgot anything, what happens now is a very clear outlined process you need to deal with if you are not based in the US or willing to - possibly illegal - cooperate. Cant tell me Antifa IT gng does not have a law kid around.

    They're ideological actors. So, it's less likely they'll cooperate and I don't know who's going to represent their case.

  • forestforest Member

    They are able to contest the ruling, or at least the details: https://law.stackexchange.com/q/115385/15724

  • WilliamWilliam Veteran

    @forest said: They are able to contest the ruling

    The process is an agony even with US lawyer, absolutely pointless as the US simply assumes ultimate jurisdiction but then refuses you constitutional protection...

  • forestforest Member

    @William said:

    @forest said: They are able to contest the ruling

    The process is an agony even with US lawyer, absolutely pointless as the US simply assumes ultimate jurisdiction but then refuses you constitutional protection...

    Yup, but contesting it means free press. If they're clever, they can turn this in their favor.

  • rustelekomrustelekom Patron Provider, Veteran

    @forest said:

    @William said:

    @forest said: They are able to contest the ruling

    The process is an agony even with US lawyer, absolutely pointless as the US simply assumes ultimate jurisdiction but then refuses you constitutional protection...

    Yup, but contesting it means free press. If they're clever, they can turn this in their favor.

    The free press now looks like complete nonsense. I don’t know if this is true or not (I’m not a professional fact‑checker), but a representative of the Axel Springer publishing house claimed that their journalists are explicitly prohibited from publishing anything against Israel. The same applies to other publications of the free press. Most social media platforms also block posts that contradict the official line (one of the most well‑known examples is Trump’s posts). Also remember the anti-covid posts.

    Thanked by 3rpqu tux jsg
  • forestforest Member

    @rustelekom said: The free press now looks like complete nonsense.

    I agree, but I meant free (as in gratis) press. I.e. their popularity will increase without them having to pay anything.

    @rustelekom said: but a representative of the Axel Springer publishing house claimed that their journalists are explicitly prohibited from publishing anything against Israel

    Yeah that's true sadly. CNN (or was it Reuters or Washington Post? Some big one) was told not to use the term "Palestinians" or "people" when referring to body counts and instead just dryly give statistics.

    Thanked by 1MannDude
  • oriendoriend Member

    @forest maybe I missed, how did you get an invite code for rise up? I was searching for one for quite some time (I guess a screenshot someone posted related to invite codes explains it), but after a while I gave up.

  • forestforest Member

    @oriend said:
    @forest maybe I missed, how did you get an invite code for rise up? I was searching for one for quite some time (I guess a screenshot someone posted related to invite codes explains it), but after a while I gave up.

    Only people with an account can create invite codes, and apparently no new invite codes can be created. But someone here had already created a code but not used it and offered it to me. So I just got lucky.

    Thanked by 1oriend
  • oriendoriend Member

    Cool, a really kind act of that person. Hopefully I will manage to get one too someday.

    Thanked by 1forest
  • forestforest Member

    @oriend said:
    Cool, a really kind act of that person. Hopefully I will manage to get one too someday.

    You might want to try Disroot or look at Riseup's list of related organizations. They have good email services I believe.

  • zedzed Veteran

    @forest said:

    @oriend said:
    @forest maybe I missed, how did you get an invite code for rise up? I was searching for one for quite some time (I guess a screenshot someone posted related to invite codes explains it), but after a while I gave up.

    Only people with an account can create invite codes, and apparently no new invite codes can be created. But someone here had already created a code but not used it and offered it to me. So I just got lucky.

    some are still allowed to create invites.

  • @zed said:

    @forest said:

    @oriend said:
    @forest maybe I missed, how did you get an invite code for rise up? I was searching for one for quite some time (I guess a screenshot someone posted related to invite codes explains it), but after a while I gave up.

    Only people with an account can create invite codes, and apparently no new invite codes can be created. But someone here had already created a code but not used it and offered it to me. So I just got lucky.

    some are still allowed to create invites.

    Is this actually true though? I know the message on their dash says so but neither of my 2 accounts are allowed to.

  • rpqurpqu Member

    @rustelekom said:

    @forest said:

    @William said:

    @forest said: They are able to contest the ruling

    The process is an agony even with US lawyer, absolutely pointless as the US simply assumes ultimate jurisdiction but then refuses you constitutional protection...

    Yup, but contesting it means free press. If they're clever, they can turn this in their favor.

    The free press now looks like complete nonsense. I don’t know if this is true or not (I’m not a professional fact‑checker), but a representative of the Axel Springer publishing house claimed that their journalists are explicitly prohibited from publishing anything against Israel. The same applies to other publications of the free press. Most social media platforms also block posts that contradict the official line (one of the most well‑known examples is Trump’s posts). Also remember the anti-covid posts.

    Even when you're right, government can't afford to look incompetent.
    Ordinary citizen can’t doubt the scientists.
    Big pharma has to make profits

  • rustelekomrustelekom Patron Provider, Veteran

    @rpqu said:
    Even when you're right, government can't afford to look incompetent.
    Ordinary citizen can’t doubt the scientists.
    Big pharma has to make profits

    As Sheldon said, “sarcasm.” Unfortunately, nowadays people have to be sarcastic about almost everything, because many situations look absurd, like in “Monty Python.” For me personally, the beginning of all this absurdity was the “Bearded Lady” (Conchita Wurst) at Eurovision.

  • forestforest Member
    edited August 31

    @rpqu said:

    @rustelekom said:

    @forest said:

    @William said:

    @forest said: They are able to contest the ruling

    The process is an agony even with US lawyer, absolutely pointless as the US simply assumes ultimate jurisdiction but then refuses you constitutional protection...

    Yup, but contesting it means free press. If they're clever, they can turn this in their favor.

    The free press now looks like complete nonsense. I don’t know if this is true or not (I’m not a professional fact‑checker), but a representative of the Axel Springer publishing house claimed that their journalists are explicitly prohibited from publishing anything against Israel. The same applies to other publications of the free press. Most social media platforms also block posts that contradict the official line (one of the most well‑known examples is Trump’s posts). Also remember the anti-covid posts.

    Even when you're right, government can't afford to look incompetent.
    Ordinary citizen can’t doubt the scientists.
    Big pharma has to make profits

    That whole thing was a clusterfuck because it mixed government and science. I'm firmly on the side of science, so I hate that the government tried to mandate "truth". Even if they happened to get it right, it made people more skeptical of science which is really unfortunate. Whenever the government tries to shut an idea down, they give that idea power, whether the idea is good or stupid.

    I think more people would have vaccinated if the government didn't try so hard to force media companies to censor anti-vaxxers (even though I think anti-vaxxers are idiots, although that's because I understand the science far more deeply than most, not because the government tells me to think that). The censorship backfired.

  • @forest said:

    @Levi said:
    What “autistici” means? Is it service for autistic people?

    From https://www.inventati.org/who/manifesto:

    We called ourselves Inventati because we strive to find ways to translate issues that are part of struggles and their organizing, overcoming the limits and constraints of reality in the digital world. Ie: a plenum can be made permanent and continuous through the use of a mailing list.

    We called ourselves Autistici, instead, for the passion we have for understanding the technical tools and for exposing the politics implicit in the digital world; even if software is created in a virtual world it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a political impact on reality.

    Sounds like a bot or a douche.

  • @forest said:

    @rpqu said:

    @rustelekom said:

    @forest said:

    @William said:

    @forest said: They are able to contest the ruling

    The process is an agony even with US lawyer, absolutely pointless as the US simply assumes ultimate jurisdiction but then refuses you constitutional protection...

    Yup, but contesting it means free press. If they're clever, they can turn this in their favor.

    The free press now looks like complete nonsense. I don’t know if this is true or not (I’m not a professional fact‑checker), but a representative of the Axel Springer publishing house claimed that their journalists are explicitly prohibited from publishing anything against Israel. The same applies to other publications of the free press. Most social media platforms also block posts that contradict the official line (one of the most well‑known examples is Trump’s posts). Also remember the anti-covid posts.

    Even when you're right, government can't afford to look incompetent.
    Ordinary citizen can’t doubt the scientists.
    Big pharma has to make profits

    That whole thing was a clusterfuck because it mixed government and science. I'm firmly on the side of science, so I hate that the government tried to mandate "truth". Even if they happened to get it right, it made people more skeptical of science which is really unfortunate. Whenever the government tries to shut an idea down, they give that idea power, whether the idea is good or stupid.

    I think more people would have vaccinated if the government didn't try so hard to force media companies to censor anti-vaxxers (even though I think anti-vaxxers are idiots, although that's because I understand the science far more deeply than most, not because the government tells me to think that). The censorship backfired.

    No. Anti-vaxxers do not respond to logic and reason. Stopping the spread of outright harmful misinformation is higher priority. Preventing outbreaks because nobody told the fucking idiots otherwise.

    It starts with solid education when they're kids if you want science and logic to prevail.

  • forestforest Member

    @TimboJones said: Stopping the spread of outright harmful misinformation is higher priority.

    I agree, but I think the US tried to go about it the wrong way. Rather than using education as a vaccine against anti-vaxxer idiocy, they just gave anti-vaxxers ammo to push the narrative that they're the truth being censored.

    @TimboJones said: It starts with solid education when they're kids if you want science and logic to prevail.

    If only the US had solid education and genuinely prioritized science and critical thinking. :/

  • @forest said:

    @TimboJones said: Stopping the spread of outright harmful misinformation is higher priority.

    I agree, but I think the US tried to go about it the wrong way. Rather than using education as a vaccine against anti-vaxxer idiocy, they just gave anti-vaxxers ammo to push the narrative that they're the truth being censored.

    I still don't hear an alternative solution from you. I still don't know what gets through to anti-vaxxers except for 1+ deaths in close relation for it to "hit home" and not be theoretical. The ones that I would talk to would tell me what stupid thing they believed and there was no convincing them otherwise. They'll say they get my points, repeat the dumb shit that started the conversation and go away.

    I would have to hear anecdotal evidence from anti-vaxxers that changed their mind to actually know what is effective.

  • forestforest Member

    @TimboJones said: I still don't know what gets through to anti-vaxxers

    The hardliners will never be convinced. The only solution is to prevent the spread of their nonsense through education. The people who are vulnerable aren't the nanobots-in-5G idiots, but the more ignorant people who can't, off the top of their head, explain why "masks reduce oxygen levels" is a physical impossibility. Or the people who don't know the difference between RNA and DNA and are easily swayed by anti-vaxxers who scare them by telling them that the vaccine "changes their RNA".

  • rpqurpqu Member
    edited August 31

    @forest said:

    @TimboJones said: I still don't know what gets through to anti-vaxxers

    Or the people who don't know the difference between RNA and DNA and are easily swayed by anti-vaxxers who scare them by telling them that the vaccine "changes their DNA".

    That's actually correct btw [1][2].
    Maybe you should also check who's pushing AZT

    Edit:
    Yes, the mechanism to cDNA exist.

  • @rpqu said:

    @forest said:

    @TimboJones said: I still don't know what gets through to anti-vaxxers

    Or the people who don't know the difference between RNA and DNA and are easily swayed by anti-vaxxers who scare them by telling them that the vaccine "changes their DNA".

    That's actually correct btw 12.

    Does drinking bleach change my DNA?

  • rpqurpqu Member

    @Obelous said:

    @rpqu said:

    @forest said:

    @TimboJones said: I still don't know what gets through to anti-vaxxers

    Or the people who don't know the difference between RNA and DNA and are easily swayed by anti-vaxxers who scare them by telling them that the vaccine "changes their DNA".

    That's actually correct btw 12.

    Does drinking bleach change my DNA?

    For affected cells, yes. It gets denatured

  • forestforest Member
    edited August 31

    @rpqu said: That's actually correct btw [1][2].

    The mRNA in the vaccine are not retrotransposons. In order to act as a retrotransposon, it would need an integrase.

    The articles you linked are about the virus itself, not the vaccine, and they show the opposite: That even the virus can't modify DNA. They test whether long-COVID can be explained by the virus integrating with host DNA, and they answer no:

    That we find no evidence of SARS-CoV-2 integration suggests that such events are, at most, extremely rare in vivo and therefore are unlikely to drive oncogenesis or explain post-recovery detection of the virus.

    This is exactly why science education is so important. Very frequently I see anti-vaxxers link to research articles that are either not relevant or say the opposite of what they claim.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • iksaiksa Member
    edited August 31

    Autistici runs noblogs.org blog network which hosts hundreds of Antifa sites that contain instructions on attacks, doxes of people they don't like with explicit calls to action.

    Every Right-wing network of similar nature - for example Redwatch, faced the exact scrutinity. Presenting Autistici as some privacy email service or whatever, is incorrect.
    Its a tool specifically made for radical left wing extremists, just like Riseup. Other people being able to use it too doesn't really change what the service is originally for.

    I believe Riseup is next, and no it's not because they are privacy email provider or whatever. They run mailing lists network, many of which are private which are being used by Antifa and co to coordinate attacks, protests and other shit they are up to.

    They for years pretended to operate legitimate "privacy" services, but anyone who cared to look deeper knows who is their target audience.

    @Gumball said:
    ANOTHER WIN FOR DEMOCRACY

    Don't get it confused, Autistici and people they support are not for democracy either. They are communists, not liberals.

    Thanked by 1hyperblast
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