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Alternatives to MXroute

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Comments

  • MynymboxMynymbox Member, Host Rep
    edited April 9

    We host our emali server as well on an fully encrypted dedicated server with some other infra stuff. We have no delivery issues so far, all works fine. We use a Hetzner IP as we do not want to run it on our own network for some reasons.
    Mailcow is our stack we use and it is super easy to install and very good. It also offers some nice features like email aliases with expiry date.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention it also has a calendar and contact sync feature

    Thanked by 3MikeA JohnnySac ywTech
  • @Mynymbox how is the reliability/deliverability of E-mail on an Hetzner ip? I am genuinely curious to know.

  • defaultdefault Veteran
    edited April 9

    @Mynymbox - any deals for LET? You know you can advertise in megathreads (such as the Easter Megathread) without a provider tag.

    Thanked by 1whynotlearn
  • rpqurpqu Member

    @tentor said:

    @forest said:

    @miniopt said: because spammers / scammers have ruined so many blocks of IP

    You mean because a few large email providers have a monopoly and use whitelist to kill smaller competition.

    IMO, what actually kills people's desire to handle mail themselves is other people's laziness and/or anxiety about email hosting (not only sending), leading to a delegation of this task to an aforementioned large email providers as a consequence.

    It's a disaster

  • MynymboxMynymbox Member, Host Rep

    As said, we have no issues so far. Emails reach the recipient

    Thanked by 1whynotlearn
  • defaultdefault Veteran

    @rpqu said:

    @tentor said:

    @forest said:

    @miniopt said: because spammers / scammers have ruined so many blocks of IP

    You mean because a few large email providers have a monopoly and use whitelist to kill smaller competition.

    IMO, what actually kills people's desire to handle mail themselves is other people's laziness and/or anxiety about email hosting (not only sending), leading to a delegation of this task to an aforementioned large email providers as a consequence.

    It's a disaster

    Thanked by 2rpqu cxg
  • MynymboxMynymbox Member, Host Rep

    @default said:
    @Mynymbox - any deals for LET? You know you can advertise in megathreads (such as the Easter Megathread) without a provider tag.

    Not yet, as we don't have that many resources right now to run deals :) We are also in the process to move some stuff around

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • defaultdefault Veteran

    @Mynymbox said:

    @default said:
    @Mynymbox - any deals for LET? You know you can advertise in megathreads (such as the Easter Megathread) without a provider tag.

    Not yet, as we don't have that many resources right now to run deals :) We are also in the process to move some stuff around

    That's a quite an inappropriate timing. Look at this thread: people are looking for email alternatives. These are the moments when a business needs to step up and come up with flash solutions having the smell of spring flowers.

    Thanked by 1Mynymbox
  • MynymboxMynymbox Member, Host Rep
    edited April 9

    We used to run an email service but run into issues with Spamhaus LOL So we stopped it but it is on our roadmap - again. Maybe we will push it

    This was our old introduction

    Thanked by 1rpqu
  • tentortentor Member, Host Rep
    edited April 9

    @Mynymbox said:
    We used to run an email service but run into issues with Spamhaus LOL So we stopped it but it is on our roadmap - again. Maybe we will push it

    This was our old introduction

    Market it as spamhaus ignored

    Thanked by 1Mynymbox
  • MynymboxMynymbox Member, Host Rep

    @tentor said:

    @Mynymbox said:
    We used to run an email service but run into issues with Spamhaus LOL So we stopped it but it is on our roadmap - again. Maybe we will push it

    This was our old introduction

    Market is as spamhaus ignored

    You can't imagine how many tickets and emails we had open with Spamhaus LUL

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • ralfralf Member

    @rpqu said:

    @tentor said:

    @forest said:

    @miniopt said: because spammers / scammers have ruined so many blocks of IP

    You mean because a few large email providers have a monopoly and use whitelist to kill smaller competition.

    IMO, what actually kills people's desire to handle mail themselves is other people's laziness and/or anxiety about email hosting (not only sending), leading to a delegation of this task to an aforementioned large email providers as a consequence.

    It's a disaster

    Hmmmm, I kind of disagree. I don't think I've had any deliverability issues to my mail servers ever. If anything, it's just spam that's an issue.

    I manually manage local_sender_blacklist though, quite a few with wildcards. Currently I have 325 domains in there (and by far, the most significant was *.ru which at one point accounted for 90% of the spam I received, and I don't know anyone in Russia). I have 3 hosts in local_host_blacklist.

    The vast majority of spam is sent to my contracting business domain, simply because it's more publicly available I guess. It's also very easy to aggressively filter, so basically everything that's spam there, gets the domain added to my local_sender_blacklist, and a few of these have started rotating their domain prefixes like outreach, outbound, msg, etc, data, chat, mail, contact, email, email1, ...) every time I block them, at which point I wildcard their domain as well. Quite a few companies seem happy to register variations on their main domain just to send the same junk spam a month later too.

    But, as for legitimate e-mail, I don't think any has not been delivered to me. The problem has always been outbound, and even then the worst that's happened was ending up in a spam folder rather than not delivered at all. As I said before, I don't e-mail a huge variety of domains though.

    Plus personally, I love the flexibility of handling my own e-mail. For various reasons, I have a different POP3 box for every client, and most mail gets sent to multiple of these. The wildcard address just goes to one place or another, but then I whitelist mail from specific companies to go elsewhere, so for instance my phone when travelling only gets mails from companies I'm using while travelling. I prefer that way of working as for me it completely removes the anxiety about the possibility of losing my phone, as I know all my important mails and bank accounts have never gone anywhere near the phone, and similarly with my travelling laptop.

    But then, I'm happy manually editing aliases.virtual directly on the mail server every time before I'm about to use a new company that I know I'll want to access from the phone. I do also have a subdomain that wildcard forwards everything to my travel phone, and just use that if I need to sign up for anything while travelling, so that I can give it a unique address.

  • ralfralf Member

    @default said:

    @Mynymbox said:

    @default said:
    @Mynymbox - any deals for LET? You know you can advertise in megathreads (such as the Easter Megathread) without a provider tag.

    Not yet, as we don't have that many resources right now to run deals :) We are also in the process to move some stuff around

    That's a quite an inappropriate timing. Look at this thread: people are looking for email alternatives. These are the moments when a business needs to step up and come up with flash solutions having the smell of spring flowers.

    People always want deals though. Don't bully them into expanding resources when they're not ready, as the demand you're promising may never even show up!

  • MynymboxMynymbox Member, Host Rep

    @ralf said:

    @rpqu said:

    @tentor said:

    @forest said:

    @miniopt said: because spammers / scammers have ruined so many blocks of IP

    You mean because a few large email providers have a monopoly and use whitelist to kill smaller competition.

    IMO, what actually kills people's desire to handle mail themselves is other people's laziness and/or anxiety about email hosting (not only sending), leading to a delegation of this task to an aforementioned large email providers as a consequence.

    It's a disaster

    Hmmmm, I kind of disagree. I don't think I've had any deliverability issues to my mail servers ever. If anything, it's just spam that's an issue.

    I manually manage local_sender_blacklist though, quite a few with wildcards. Currently I have 325 domains in there (and by far, the most significant was *.ru which at one point accounted for 90% of the spam I received, and I don't know anyone in Russia). I have 3 hosts in local_host_blacklist.

    The vast majority of spam is sent to my contracting business domain, simply because it's more publicly available I guess. It's also very easy to aggressively filter, so basically everything that's spam there, gets the domain added to my local_sender_blacklist, and a few of these have started rotating their domain prefixes like outreach, outbound, msg, etc, data, chat, mail, contact, email, email1, ...) every time I block them, at which point I wildcard their domain as well. Quite a few companies seem happy to register variations on their main domain just to send the same junk spam a month later too.

    But, as for legitimate e-mail, I don't think any has not been delivered to me. The problem has always been outbound, and even then the worst that's happened was ending up in a spam folder rather than not delivered at all. As I said before, I don't e-mail a huge variety of domains though.

    Plus personally, I love the flexibility of handling my own e-mail. For various reasons, I have a different POP3 box for every client, and most mail gets sent to multiple of these. The wildcard address just goes to one place or another, but then I whitelist mail from specific companies to go elsewhere, so for instance my phone when travelling only gets mails from companies I'm using while travelling. I prefer that way of working as for me it completely removes the anxiety about the possibility of losing my phone, as I know all my important mails and bank accounts have never gone anywhere near the phone, and similarly with my travelling laptop.

    But then, I'm happy manually editing aliases.virtual directly on the mail server every time before I'm about to use a new company that I know I'll want to access from the phone. I do also have a subdomain that wildcard forwards everything to my travel phone, and just use that if I need to sign up for anything while travelling, so that I can give it a unique address.

    Do you run any stack or is it a fully manual installation?

  • MynymboxMynymbox Member, Host Rep

    @ralf said:

    @default said:

    @Mynymbox said:

    @default said:
    @Mynymbox - any deals for LET? You know you can advertise in megathreads (such as the Easter Megathread) without a provider tag.

    Not yet, as we don't have that many resources right now to run deals :) We are also in the process to move some stuff around

    That's a quite an inappropriate timing. Look at this thread: people are looking for email alternatives. These are the moments when a business needs to step up and come up with flash solutions having the smell of spring flowers.

    People always want deals though. Don't bully them into expanding resources when they're not ready, as the demand you're promising may never even show up!

    In our 2 years we had only 1 or 2 deals, but not here.

  • defaultdefault Veteran
    edited April 9

    @ralf said:

    @default said:

    @Mynymbox said:

    @default said:
    @Mynymbox - any deals for LET? You know you can advertise in megathreads (such as the Easter Megathread) without a provider tag.

    Not yet, as we don't have that many resources right now to run deals :) We are also in the process to move some stuff around

    That's a quite an inappropriate timing. Look at this thread: people are looking for email alternatives. These are the moments when a business needs to step up and come up with flash solutions having the smell of spring flowers.

    People always want deals though. Don't bully them into expanding resources when they're not ready, as the demand you're promising may never even show up!

    I am sorry if that is how it was perceived. I did not mean to bully them. I simply provided a marketing perspective: one needs to come with solutions precisely when problems (or requests) arise. Don't let a good crisis go to waste — as an important man once said.

    Thanked by 1ralf
  • DrNutellaDrNutella Member
    edited April 9

    @Levi said:

    @Protocol903 said:
    Maybe namecrane?

    They are not reliable enough for email.

    In all my years I have quietly watched @Francisco
    Because I am surprised the way he acts and stands up his businesses. Some people may call it lazy. Some may call it unreliable. I look at and say “that’s exactly what I would do, and be polite and respectful in address my customers concern with humility because that’s what I owe them”.

    A good business makes mistakes. A good business learns. A good business responds to all concerns with respect. I respect @Francisco way of running his business. It works.

    Honestly big cloud providers have worse performance metrics with issues MONTHLY and I know this because I have over half a dozen enterprise emails in different orgs as an advisor. And honestly @Francisco outperforms them all just by being available. The others are not.

    I bash many hosts here for how they treat customers but I have never had less than a good thing to observe from @NameCrane .

    I recommend you re-evaluate.

    Thanked by 2rpqu Protocol903
  • ShazanShazan Member, Host Rep

    I still believe the best and easiest solution for the mail is using a shared hosting account with a reputable provider.

    Thanked by 2Protocol903 default
  • ralfralf Member

    @Mynymbox said:
    Do you run any stack or is it a fully manual installation?

    Just plain exim4 and spamassassin (although that's not so useful nowadays since most of the blacklists stopped doing their thing).

    I have a couple of local changes for DKIM, and another couple of local changes for spamassassin (as I run it on a separate VM) and outgoing SMTP authentication, but nothing significant.

    Thanked by 1Mynymbox
  • rpqurpqu Member
    edited April 9

    @Mynymbox said:
    We used to run an email service but run into issues with Spamhaus LOL So we stopped it but it is on our roadmap - again. Maybe we will push it

    This was our old introduction

    @ralf said:

    @rpqu said:

    @tentor said:

    @forest said:

    @miniopt said: because spammers / scammers have ruined so many blocks of IP

    You mean because a few large email providers have a monopoly and use whitelist to kill smaller competition.

    IMO, what actually kills people's desire to handle mail themselves is other people's laziness and/or anxiety about email hosting (not only sending), leading to a delegation of this task to an aforementioned large email providers as a consequence.

    It's a disaster

    Hmmmm, I kind of disagree. I don't think I've had any deliverability issues to my mail servers ever. If anything, it's just spam that's an issue.

    But, as for legitimate e-mail, I don't think any has not been delivered to me. The problem has always been outbound, and even then the worst that's happened was ending up in a spam folder rather than not delivered at all. As I said before, I don't e-mail a huge variety of domains though.

    Of course it's mostly outbound problem. But, some corporate have issue delivering to my own domain, then they asked me to change it to google, yahoo, hotmail, etc. What a hassle.

    That's the same problem with paypal OTP (to lesser extent, certain banks' 3DS). Somehow they just can't deliver the second OTP if you had request one within 24 hours.

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • @Levi said: Out of the question. Service which limits INCOMING messages are insane. And to pay for that? What they are thinking!

    I guess they don't want to attract low end customers!

  • emperoremperor Member
    edited April 9

    @Mynymbox said:
    We host our emali server as well on an fully encrypted dedicated server with some other infra stuff. We have no delivery issues so far, all works fine. We use a Hetzner IP as we do not want to run it on our own network for some reasons.
    Mailcow is our stack we use and it is super easy to install and very good. It also offers some nice features like email aliases with expiry date.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention it also has a calendar and contact sync feature

    Yea, you might want to check with outlook, it land in Junk , Delivery is never the issue. Issue is landing in spam/junk folder.

  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider

    @emperor said:

    @Mynymbox said:
    We host our emali server as well on an fully encrypted dedicated server with some other infra stuff. We have no delivery issues so far, all works fine. We use a Hetzner IP as we do not want to run it on our own network for some reasons.
    Mailcow is our stack we use and it is super easy to install and very good. It also offers some nice features like email aliases with expiry date.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention it also has a calendar and contact sync feature

    Yea, you might want to check with outlook, it land in Junk , Delivery is never the issue. Issue is landing in spam/junk folder.

    Good ol Microshaft.

  • JosephFJosephF Member

    @Francisco said:

    Issues like this: https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/214059/is-cranemail-down

    And there is more oopsies, mistakes, blunders etc. For some reason I don't trust them. You do not want my path, think with your own head and decide. I'am paranoid person.

    Fair, let me know if you ever change your mind or want to do a test run of anything.

    EU's been great, US2's been great. US1 had its faults from the OS drives, but generally good especially with the lag fixes.

    Good luck on your hunt!

    Francisco

    Which location is US1 and which is US2?

  • mustafamw3mustafamw3 Member, Patron Provider, LIR

    I use Zoho mail and zoho zeptomail for transactional mail

  • JosephFJosephF Member

    @Nyr said:

    @JohnFilch123 said:

    @Nyr said:

    @JohnFilch123 said:

    @elliotc said:

    @cmeerw said:
    Self hosting. It's easier than you might think.

    No. It is nightmare.

    It is not actually. I do it.

    So tell us: where are you hosting the main and backup MX? What is your volume and how are you doing outbound? What about backups? What about DDoS protection if you are a public internet person? How much time did you spend learning to do it, and how many hours do you spend on maintenance per year? What if your main server goes down in the middle of a Saturday night?

    I think of myself as someone technically competent, I have administered mail servers in the past and could do it today, but have no desire to waste a significant amount of time, effort and worry on running an email server por personal use. It is just not worth it when there are reliable, good quality providers specialized on doing that, and the whole email industry has long accepted that small, independent, email servers are no longer a viable thing.

    Don't forget this is my own server. Not for the company, not even for a family.

    This is what we are trying to find out - those quality providers. I have got the second server, which uses mxroute, so curious to know alternatives.

    The email hosting industry is small. There are not many alternatives serving the same market as MXroute.

    Purelymail, NameCrane and maybe Migadu if you want to consider them. But all of them have big shortcomings.

    What are the shortcomings of each of those three?

  • JosephFJosephF Member

    @Obelous said:

    @Nyr said: It works good, it is the industry leader in the west, and it is well integrated with Android.

    Google Workspace is really good but the price increases haven't been very fun.

    Started in 2019 at €5 to €6.50 to €8.63 to now €10.13.

    One reason I'm still with them is that I realized you can't convert a Workspace account to a regular Google account so when you cancel Workspace you've lost everything bound to that account (in my case, stuff like Play Store purchases).

    How much in Play Store purchases can you possibly have accrued to make it worthwhile to continue paying Google Workspace's monthly pricing (per user)?

  • JosephFJosephF Member

    @Smigit said:

    @whynotlearn said:

    @angstrom said:

    @whynotlearn said:

    @Nyr said:

    @cmeerw said:
    Self hosting. It's easier than you might think.

    Maintenance is a headache. It is not "hard" in the sense of the technical competence required, just a headache.

    Also anyone who is like the average MXroute customer needs to rely on a third party relay for good deliverability anyway. There is just no way in 2026 to have good, consistent deliverability with a low volume, independent mail server.

    It depends, Scaleway is a bit expensive at 0.25 euros per thousand mails but I think that personally send less than 1000 mails in a whole year.

    Also hetzner's mail servers feel reliable. I can be wrong, I usually am, but doesn't jar host things on hetzner themselves?

    He used to, but that was a while ago. His recent deployments aren't on Hetzner

    In any case, he has his own IPs that he uses for MXroute

    Oh I didn't know that he had his own IP's. IIRC jar is currently using Onidel rather than Hetzner for the MXRoute servers.

    Believe Onidel is one of three hosts he’s using. There was a comment he’d added them to diversify a bit.

    Anyway as to the question, won’t meet the OP requirements I don’t imagine, but I’m using FastMail and very happy with it and no real intention to look elsewhere. Was on Google Workspace before that. Fastmail’s going to be a lot more than many of us would be paying for MXRoute or other providers mind you.

    Doesn't Fastmail charge basically abide the the same pricing as Google Workspace?

  • ailiceailice Member

    @Levi said:
    Out of the question. Service which limits INCOMING messages are insane. And to pay for that? What they are thinking!

    They kinda flexible about it, I have micro-one but mail them I have around 40 mail need to sended per day (half was just git patch mail) they just said fine for it.

    I kinda not recommended them if you send mail to M$ cause there some case mail would send to spam (its rarely case, but its still hard judge for me).

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran
    edited April 10

    @Tange said:
    @Francisco

    Hi Fran, i read on your page that your do not allow bulk mail and you have 600 per hour limit, i have a small forum, not big one, ~3000 members, can i use your service to send emergency mails to them? i can do like 300 mails per hour and finished in 10 hours.

    is that bulk mail?

    That's generally fine. Bulk is more so aimed at spammers and cold emailing.

    We have plenty of people that use us for transactional emails and things like that.

    And @MaxTakeba too.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 1MaxTakeba
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