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In the end, its up to the provider. I agree.
We use a handful of different providers for different things. Below is a true story.
Place an order, flagged as fraud. No problem, I'm using our VPN and I registered using our real US business address, my real name, real phone number. I'm in South East Asia and using a Singapore IP, so this was expected.
Open a ticket, explain.
They tell me I can proceed to make payment.
I try, but none of the payment options on the invoice will actually load the typical payment widget. Usually, you select PayPal, the PayPal button appears. You select BitCoin, the-whatever-gateway-they-use button appears. Stripe? Stripe button appears. Tried multuple times, to no avail.
Hmm, maybe I'm just whitelisted and I can just place a new order for the same thing and the invoice will work?
Try.
Fraud check. Maxmind. GeoIP location error.
Fuck it, I don't want the service that bad. Respond to my original ticket where they allowed me to proceed with my order and politely asked to cancel my order(s) and invoice(s), that it would not work for us.
Even when you do things "Right", and use real information, you lose business when people can't be bothered enough to play ping-pong with communication to order some cheap service.
Was just some random Bulgarian company. Not going to fuss with going above and beyond trying to give them my money.
All the more reason that if you have strict policies to make them part of the new user onboarding experience and make them prominently visible in the checkout flow. These threads pop up when there is a mismatch in expectations and customers are surprised by KYC. The default expectation is privacy, if you're doing something unusual like KYC it behooves you to set expectations ahead of payment so you don't get people flaming your company on LET/trustpilot. Not just in the TOS, but prominently visible on the checkout page so people can't miss it. You will lose some sales because of it, but less than bad reviews due to surprises.
That's not privacy, you mean anonymity. Giving your real name doesn't affect your privacy.
It's not doxing to have a business relationship and you're sounding super loopy now. Another red flag for you.
Their intention is preventing abuse before that happens. Providers who are setup to accept abuse and then take action is incompetence and laziness.
You're being dishonest with fake names. That's the first indication of malice or harmful ulterior motives. You're so obtuse sometimes.
Because it's their network, infrastructure and reputation that can easily be abused? Are you always this ignorant? What silly fucking whining. Why should a provider be required to offer services to dishonest users? Ain't nobody got time for that.
I've got red flags?
It's doxing when the business gets its database stolen and subsequently leaked, as has happened multiple times already. That has been used to tie a username to a real name, which is doxing.
Anonymity is a subset of privacy, btw. Specifically it's privacy of identity. But that's just a nitpick.
Perhaps you should read the thread, as others have already explained this.
What a polite person you are. Leave the guy alone if you have nothing constructive to say.
Why are you entitled to do business with someone who doesn’t want to do business with you had they known its based on a lie?
I can't refute that because I never made that claim.
So signing up with providers asking for a real name with a fake name is wrong then?
I never made that claim either. I think that it's wrong (but legal) for a provider to demand a real name, and I think it's not necessarily wrong to give an alias in lieu of a real name, but by doing so, the provider would have the legal right to terminate your service if they wish, although most providers will look the other way if you aren't causing them any trouble.
Wait, let’s roll back.
I said:
You said that you never said this.
But now you’re saying:
I don’t think you’re fully committing to if you’re entitled to break provider terms so long as they don’t notice or if you’re not
You're using "wrong" and "not entitled" as synonyms, I'm not. The only way you could be entitled to break terms is if contract law was on your side.
i can add no gays allowed to sign up in website so emgh cant near to it, that something against Eu-Us law, are you sure i have to do all law stuff in contract only? i can additional agreement whatever to my own company my own business my own website my own servers my own whatever, if you feel uncomfortable then leave the you can find instead of one or two there's a thousand provider here that didn't care about your name about your ip about your personal details about privacy browser they just say don't make abuse to anything then we okay
there's two different choose whatever is comfortable to you and leave the other side alone with any long talk about how to fix whatever agreement or law in his business
So it’s not wrong to lie about who you are and break the contract you agreed to be following by signing up but not because you’re entitled of doing so because you’re not?
It doesn’t make any sense
@forest let me put it this way then, a provider requires your real name. They make this very clear, real name or sign up with someone else.
Are you entitled to give them a fake name so long as they don’t notice?
No, of course not. It's a contract and you'd be violating the contract by doing that. But it's still wise not to share such information, and I completely understand why people, even those who are not abusing the service, would sign up without using their real name, especially if they're already paying in crypto. My opinion is far from fringe. In fact, I'd argue it's the majority opinion here that giving your personal information to a random summerhost (or even established provider) is dumb.
Personally, I go with hosts that don't care, either because they simply don't seem to bother or because they explicitly state that they don't care. If a host says they will be doing aggressive KYC, I'm just going to find another host rather than trying to fake it. As for whether or not I put in my home address for a few bucks a year over 40+ providers, I'll let you take a guess.
But if a provider does make it very clear that they need my real info, no I will not fake it. I'll just find another provider.
What established provider asks for your name but don’t need it to be your real name?
You’re acting like if it’s some unspoken rule that it may as well be a made up name. Maybe with summerhost yes I agree that that’s thw case but with established providers not niched to the privacy-crowd no I don’t believe that’s the case. Even if they don’t KYC you.
It's not that people should distrust established providers. The danger is that they (or their verification platform) can be hacked. It happens frequently and sometimes even results in your personal info being sold to script kiddies.
That wasn’t my point nor what I was talking about
Ah, so when you can't win your argument on merits, you resort to personal attacks and rudeness. 🤣
This, we've seen many large-scale breaches of providers in just the last year. Data minimization is an important strategy for privacy protection.
I would also go a bit further and say we've seen a couple bad providers who have used identity details in nefarious ways (ex: retaliatory trustpilot reviews, leaking names publicly, etc). These are certainly not the norm, though. But even some well-intentioned providers here have recently refused to comply with data deletion requests. Most providers don't behave in such a way, but it's better not to chance it.
How will service providers know if you registered with your real name or fake information without doing KYC?
If you say they know, then it's quite unnecessary.
@Rabisu It's very easy to obtain an internet service provider IP address that doesn't belong to that customer, but how do you find those who pay with fake names and addresses?
It's truly ridiculous that people who can't even secure their own companies are forcing others to go through the KYC process.
Example ( FAKE ISP IP )
https://prnt.sc/edw8nhWdga6D
https://prnt.sc/kXXLX3T7Y0J8
https://prnt.sc/O06DeFuUft-A
@hahahaa If a site forces you to complete KYC checks, you should definitely blacklist that site. Don’t go through with the KYC verification.”
You mean the part where you edited out my fucking response you skipped right over? You're an ignorant tool and a snowflake.
You've made the argument that everyone should always use fake names and addresses in all cases because it's always possible to get names and addresses from anyone who is legally in the system.
Fucking people calling registered companies "random" but not the fake ass random person signing up for the service isn't? GTFO
@TimboJones I didn't bother reading past the insults, I can see exactly what I need to know about you and I didn't even need any KYC
If you had known anything about fraud protection you’d have realized how stupid this comment is. It’s not binary. Hence why most providers who KYC, don’t KYC everyone.
I think you don't fully understand how KYC systems work, so let me explain using a realistic scenario. ( I'm explaining this according to the comment of an ignorant fool.)
A user registers on a German platform using a German-looking name and address, connects via an IP address of a regionally recognized internet service provider (FAKE ISP IP), and pays with cryptocurrency. In this case, there's no strong reason to definitively say they were subjected to KYC during registration. (Only about 10% of new accounts go through KYC).
And if platforms aggressively enforced KYC during registration, users would generally use pre-existing accounts. How do you think you would deal with this kind of fraud? You're very uninformed and can't even admit you don't know. (You might say they can't use someone else's account either, I expect that from you.)
Wait, what part of what you described is fraud?
Guy registers on a German platform using a German looking name and address, connects via a regional ISP and pays with a currency that the hosting provider willingly accepts. Let's say he does sign up with fake details, where is the harm? Who is the victim? Let's say he is a customer for two years without a single report or abuse or misuse lf service, the VPS was used as a private DNS server, dev box, remote backup, etc. Where is the harm?
Fake names, phone numbers, and addresses are actually being used on servers used for illegal purposes. Who is to blame? Is everyone using the server legally?
I think you're mistaking a fake ISP IP address for a VPN.
Who will be held responsible for a fake internet provider IP address? A third-party user? If they have committed a serious crime?
I don't support KYC, read carefully.
The harm is likely the user paying your 5x markup for privacy
There are cheaper options
People giving their id/passport to random let hosts is insane
Do as snowflakes do.