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Avoid Avoro.eu, php-friends, and dataforest oversold root servers and fraudsters

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Comments

  • GulfGulf Member

    @dataforest said:
    Hi, no criticism is of course allowed, but we do not do business with customers who accuse us of fraud or spread untruths in forums. You are welcome to send us open and honest criticism at any time - as many have already done.

    What exact term did I violate?

    https://avoro.eu/en/tos/

  • lukast__lukast__ Member, Megathread Squad
    edited June 2024

    @Gulf said:

    @dataforest said:
    Hi, no criticism is of course allowed, but we do not do business with customers who accuse us of fraud or spread untruths in forums. You are welcome to send us open and honest criticism at any time - as many have already done.


    What exact term did I violate?

    https://avoro.eu/en/tos/

    §2

    Ein genereller Anspruch auf Nutzung des Dienstes besteht nicht. Der Anbieter behält sich vor, den Vertragsschluss mit Nutzern ohne Angabe von Gründen zu verweigern.

    translated:

    There is no general right to use the service. The provider reserves the right to refuse to conclude a contract with users without giving reasons.

    And they even gave a reason.

    Thanked by 3sillycat siemens iKeyZ
  • GulfGulf Member

    @lukast__ said:
    is not an opinion but a claim.

    Let's discuss it. Who are we afraid of here? Let's get a clear explanation of the ads so other people won't be scammed.

  • lukast__lukast__ Member, Megathread Squad

    @Gulf said: Let's discuss it.

    What?

    @Gulf said: the ads

    Which ads?

    @Gulf said: other people won't be scammed.

    I don't see anyone who was scammed here.

  • GulfGulf Member
    edited June 2024

    @lukast__ said:

    There is no general right to use the service. The provider reserves the right to refuse to conclude a contract with users without giving reasons.

    And they even gave a reason.

    So, aside from this vague term, which could cover anything up to nuclear war, I haven't violated anything?

    Also, what is There is no general right to use the service ?

  • lukast__lukast__ Member, Megathread Squad

    @Gulf said:

    @lukast__ said:

    There is no general right to use the service. The provider reserves the right to refuse to conclude a contract with users without giving reasons.

    And they even gave a reason.

    So, aside from this vague term, which could cover anything up to nuclear war, I haven't violated anything?

    They are free to not do business with anyone they don't like, but whether you violated anything can only @dataforest answer.

  • GulfGulf Member
    edited June 2024

    @lukast__ said:
    They are free to not do business with anyone they don't like, but whether you violated anything can only @dataforest answer.

    Then why do you make statements on their behalf, did they hire you as a secretary? :D

  • n1njaxn1njax Member
    edited June 2024

    @dataforest said:
    but we do not do business with customers who accuse us of fraud or spread untruths in forums.

    Theres your answer.

    Thanked by 2lukast__ dataforest
  • lukast__lukast__ Member, Megathread Squad

    @Gulf said:

    @lukast__ said:
    They are free to not do business with anyone they don't like, but whether you violated anything can only @dataforest answer.

    They why do you make statements on their behalf, did they hire you as a secretary?

    I never made any statement on their behalf and am not associated with them.

  • dataforestdataforest Member, Host Rep

    @Gulf said:

    @lukast__ said:
    They are free to not do business with anyone they don't like, but whether you violated anything can only @dataforest answer.

    They why do you make statements on their behalf, did they hire you as a secretary?

    Reflect your behaviour

    Thanked by 1Wolf
  • GulfGulf Member
    edited June 2024

    @lukast__ said:
    I never made any statement on their behalf and am not associated with them.

    What is it then?
    "They are free to not do business with anyone they don't like"

    Why do you answer on behalf of this company? Maybe they do not think this way.
    How are you responsible for this company, and how are you affiliated with it?

    This way?:
    Lukas Secretary, give me a tea please :D

  • GulfGulf Member

    @dataforest said:
    Reflect your behaviour

    Then you might violate data privacy laws in Germany and Europe

    I gave you the ticket number.
    And you used it to block account of the customer.

  • @Gulf said:
    This way?:

    Lukas Secretary, give me a tea please :D

    With this one line you have exposed your region where it is expected that a secretary will prepare tea/coffee.

  • GulfGulf Member

    @dev_vps said:

    With this one line you have exposed your region where it is expected that a secretary will prepare tea/coffee.

    Let's change it:
    Lukas, prepare me the documents for filling bankruptcy after this thread :D
    {gniddiK}

  • lukast__lukast__ Member, Megathread Squad

    @Gulf said: "They are free to not do business with anyone they don't like"

    That is simply a fact you can see in the quoted TOS paragraph, also according to german law both the seller and the customer are entitled to not enter into a contract (Vertragsfreiheit).

    @Gulf said: Why do you answer on behalf of this company? Maybe they do not think this way.

    It is irrelevant how they think about it as it simply is a fact.

    @Gulf said: How are you responsible for this company, and how are you affiliated with it?

    As I said, I am not associated/affiliated with @dataforest, I am just a customer of them, and have no advantages by posting anything in their favour. If doubts about that exist, I will be happy to prove it to a trusted member of LET.


    @Gulf said:

    @dataforest said:
    Reflect your behaviour

    Then you might violate data privacy laws in Germany and Europe

    I gave you the ticket number.
    And you used it to block account of the customer.

    If you call them scammers and then say them who you are, I'd say it's your fault when they then don't want to do business with you anymore.

  • @Gulf said:

    @dev_vps said:

    With this one line you have exposed your region where it is expected that a secretary will prepare tea/coffee.

    Let's change it:
    Lukas, prepare me the documents for filling bankruptcy after this thread :D
    {gniddiK}

    It is important to take medicines on time.

    Bankruptcy documents are prepared by lawyers, not by secretaries.

  • dataforestdataforest Member, Host Rep

    @Gulf said:

    @dev_vps said:

    With this one line you have exposed your region where it is expected that a secretary will prepare tea/coffee.

    Let's change it:
    Lukas, prepare me the documents for filling bankruptcy after this thread :D
    {gniddiK}

    Not needed, LET is not our target group.

    Thanked by 1iKeyZ
  • lukast__lukast__ Member, Megathread Squad

    @dev_vps said:

    @Gulf said:

    @dev_vps said:

    With this one line you have exposed your region where it is expected that a secretary will prepare tea/coffee.

    Let's change it:
    Lukas, prepare me the documents for filling bankruptcy after this thread :D
    {gniddiK}

    It is important to take medicines on time.

    Bankruptcy documents are prepared by lawyers, not by secretaries.

    And:

    Bankruptcy applies only to individuals and sole traders with unlimited liability.

    It's dataforest GmbH, beschränkte Haftung = limited liability.

  • GulfGulf Member

    @n1njax said:
    Theres your answer.

    Any provider who does this is not serious.
    It is pathetic, petty, and, most importantly, inadequate.

    Never do business with such providers

    Even small providers would never do something like this.
    And the big ones... well, just read how people criticize them on forums?
    hostgator, namecheap, hetz, hostinger just open directory and see

  • GulfGulf Member

    @dev_vps said:

    It is important to take medicines on time.

    Did you take today? :D

  • MoopahMoopah Member

    @dev_vps said:

    @Gulf said:

    @dev_vps said:

    With this one line you have exposed your region where it is expected that a secretary will prepare tea/coffee.

    Let's change it:
    Lukas, prepare me the documents for filling bankruptcy after this thread :D
    {gniddiK}

    It is important to take medicines on time.

    Bankruptcy documents are prepared by lawyers, not by secretaries.

    Bankruptcy documents are now prepared by ChatGPT which is what I'll be doing if LeaseWeb sends me a massive bandwidth overage bill because someone happens to DDoS me.

  • lukast__lukast__ Member, Megathread Squad

    @Gulf said: Any provider who does this is not serious.

    You called them scammers, which is "Üble Nachrede" (Defamation, see § 186 StGB), which in Germany could be punished with imprisonment for up to two years or a fine. I'd say it's absolutely appropriate what they did.

    @Gulf said: Even small providers would never do something like this.

    They are a small provider. :)

    Thanked by 1dataforest
  • FatGrizzlyFatGrizzly Member, Host Rep

    Why stir up old bs?

    I'm sure this is same with OVH Cloud and AWS and other big clouds.

    Always double check before agreeing into a contract.

    Thanked by 1AXYZE
  • dataforestdataforest Member, Host Rep

    @FatGrizzly said:
    Why stir up old bs?

    I'm sure this is same with OVH Cloud and AWS and other big clouds.

    Always double check before agreeing into a contract.

    Stop, he rented from Avoro and his products were deactivated - without collection - and deleted after 7 days. This is just another attempt to somehow make us look bad and he wonders why we don't want to rent to him anymore :)

  • FatGrizzlyFatGrizzly Member, Host Rep

    @dataforest said:

    @FatGrizzly said:
    Why stir up old bs?

    I'm sure this is same with OVH Cloud and AWS and other big clouds.

    Always double check before agreeing into a contract.

    Stop, he rented from Avoro and his products were deactivated - without collection - and deleted after 7 days. This is just another attempt to somehow make us look bad and he wonders why we don't want to rent to him anymore :)

    Ah. Sorry my bad.

    I referenced that for contract based php-friends company.(Since he pulled it from the old comments)

    No problem in selling a contract based service, just read the terms and contract before agreeing and you're good to go.

    as for dataforest, they hold all rights to terminate anyone for any reason as stated in their ToS. You agreed to that when you made the purchase.

  • dataforestdataforest Member, Host Rep

    @FatGrizzly said:

    @dataforest said:

    @FatGrizzly said:
    Why stir up old bs?

    I'm sure this is same with OVH Cloud and AWS and other big clouds.

    Always double check before agreeing into a contract.

    Stop, he rented from Avoro and his products were deactivated - without collection - and deleted after 7 days. This is just another attempt to somehow make us look bad and he wonders why we don't want to rent to him anymore :)

    Ah. Sorry my bad.

    I referenced that for contract based php-friends company.(Since he pulled it from the old comments)

    No problem in selling a contract based service, just read the terms and contract before agreeing and you're good to go.

    as for dataforest, they hold all rights to terminate anyone for any reason as stated in their ToS. You agreed to that when you made the purchase.

    No active servers has been suspended or deleted, only the inactive account due to his accusations.

    Thanked by 1FatGrizzly
  • FatGrizzlyFatGrizzly Member, Host Rep

    @dataforest said:

    @FatGrizzly said:

    @dataforest said:

    @FatGrizzly said:
    Why stir up old bs?

    I'm sure this is same with OVH Cloud and AWS and other big clouds.

    Always double check before agreeing into a contract.

    Stop, he rented from Avoro and his products were deactivated - without collection - and deleted after 7 days. This is just another attempt to somehow make us look bad and he wonders why we don't want to rent to him anymore :)

    Ah. Sorry my bad.

    I referenced that for contract based php-friends company.(Since he pulled it from the old comments)

    No problem in selling a contract based service, just read the terms and contract before agreeing and you're good to go.

    as for dataforest, they hold all rights to terminate anyone for any reason as stated in their ToS. You agreed to that when you made the purchase.

    No active servers has been suspended or deleted, only the inactive account due to his accusations.

    Thank you for the clarification! :)

  • LET court has evaluated the situation between the provider (represented by @dataforest) and the customer (represented by @online7237) in this thread, and weighted all the LET witness testimonies.


    LET court considers the provider's use of the word "dedicated" misleading.

    From now on forward, providers who wish to use the word "dedicated" for non dedicated resources - either on their website, in their offers or marketing materials, - must amend it with an asterisk and a statement similar to this:

    We differentiate between "VPS" with fair-use policy and "high performance VPS".
    On our "high performance VPS" products we generally target a minimum expected resource availability for all customers, and customers don't get booted for persisting resource utilization.
    The "minimum expected resource availability for all customers" means that we generally aim our services and prices to all of our customers collectively, not individually.
    Performance fluctuations on our "high performance VPS" products have such low probability, that we decided to use the word "dedicated" for marketing purpose.
    When you see you see "dedicated VPS" or "VDS" in our offerings, it actually means "high performance VPS".

    This rule applies to individual resource (vCPU cores, IOPS, bandwidth) and to whole packages marketed as "VDS" or "virtual dedicated server".


    LET court considers the customer's point hypocritical.

    The customer complained about false advertising, while knowingly ordering the service to do false advertising: ordering many servers to fake decentralisation for a crypto network.
    LET court considers this use case abusive to all providers, and to the internet as a whole.

    From now on forward, orders with similar purpose are not entitled to any refund from any provider on LET.


    LET court rules the following way between the provider (represented by @dataforest) and the customer (represented by @online7237):

    1. The provider must offer a substitute service to the customer.
      • The service offered must allow the customer to manage servers the same way as the customer expected. The provider can substitute with dedicated servers only if the provider also offers to manage the hypervisor.
      • The service offered must have at least the advertised dedicated performance characteristics the customer ordered from the provider.
      • The provider must assign a maximum of 7 IPv4 addresses to the customer, and these addresses must be assigned consecutively. If the customer wishes to use more IPv4 addresses, the provider must require the customer to register an ASN, and the provider may ask for additional fees.
      • The provider must assign a maximum of 1 IPv6 /56 range to the customer. If the customer wishes to use more IPv6 address ranges, The provider must require the customer to register an ASN, and the provider may ask for additional fees.
      • If the provider can provide a substitute service within 5 business days, but the customer does not accept it, the customer is not entitled for the full refund.
      • If the provider can't provide a substitute service within 5 business days, the customer is entitled to the full refund.
    2. The provider must correct or amend the word "dedicated" (english or its non-english form) wherever they use it for non dedicated resources.
      • If the provider does not make the corrections or amends on their own websites within 5 business days, the customer is entitled to the full refund.

    Thank you @dataforest and @online7237 for bringing your issue to LET court!

    Farewell!

  • dataforestdataforest Member, Host Rep

    What a bullshit :D

    Thanked by 1fendix
  • dataforestdataforest Member, Host Rep

    Just to be clear again - and for the last time. Without exception, we have won the Paypal cases that we did not close ourselves and refunded the OP in accordance with the agreements. Everything else is just shit talking. Have a look at the other providers who have not even created a partial refund for this (the cup from Germany), but there is no such thread. This forum doesn't seem to be able to form an objective opinion - what a shame!

    The fact that this thread is/was not moderated is the next issue, especially when a moderator makes fun of it.

    Thanked by 2iKeyZ skorous
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