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What is "OP"?
Original Poster or original post, meant the one who opened this thread which in this case is you.
The list was hard to remove as per IPXO, so they terminated the range. I have no issues with that.
Hey everyone!
Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. We welcome the opportunity to clarify our policies and procedures.
Firstly, there seems to be a misunderstanding regarding account suspension. Suspension does not impact your existing services or leased IP addresses. Instead, it temporarily restricts your ability to purchase new services until the underlying issue has been resolved.
We are committed to maintaining a high standard of integrity for the IP addresses available through our marketplace. However, while we remain vigilant against abuse, we also understand mishaps can occur. That's why we allow a tolerance of two incidents per client each month. If a client exceeds the tolerance threshold, we apply an incident handling fee. You can read more about our abuse handling policy here: https://www.ipxo.com/kb/abuse-prevention-and-reputation/abuse-incident-handling-marketplace/
Primary Reasons for Account Suspension:
Primary Reasons for Account Termination:
No termination is carried out without careful consideration of all positions, if the client is responsive, we terminate only in the exceptional cases.
IPXO’s purpose is to fill the market void by providing a platform where businesses can come and lease IP addresses for a defined period. Additionally, it serves as the primary destination for IP holders who wish to monetize their addresses. We are committed to assisting our clients in finding the essential tools and resources for effective IP management. If you encounter any issues or have concerns, our expert team is always available to help!
Hope this helps clear up the misconception!
I have to say that my experience with them so far is great, provided all the needed info for my account which they then approved (by the way @IPXO you sent me an email first that said "IPXO business verification rejected." and then right after I got "Congrats! Your company is verified." I assume a miss click).
They have today reached out to me to find out my needs for IPXO and were very polite and friendly, I can understand the need to be vigilant with abuse reports and from what I have seen so far it is that if you speak with them and explain what you do as a business and the potential for abuse reports but have a clear policy on what you do then they work great, I can assume that they will not be for everyone but so far they have been very responsive, I hope that I can work with them and update on my experience in a few months.
I recently went with these guys for ASN Sponsorship (a service I was completely ripped off on btw) and a few /24's.
The relationship ended quickly after only a few weeks with them charging my credit card additionally without authorization (theft), then refunding the order for the original ASN sponsorship citing a 4% additional processor fee which appears nowhere in their terms and conditions.
This also occurred ten days after the original order. If they had emailed me explaining the issue and invoiced for just $10 bucks I probably would have paid it, but instead they billed my card for the entire price of the original ASN + the additional fee.
I don't do business with thieves, even if it's only $10. I would never do business with them again. Judging by what I am reading in this thread I dodged a major bullet.
Thank you for clarifying.
Your policies do seem to be very strict for hosting customers. 2 abuse reports per client per month makes no sense. I love IPXO and brought you a client recently, I manage their account, they're a hosting company and it worries me that they may be billed extra if they get more than two abuse reports in a month.
After reviewing the situation with our team, it appears that it was a technical fault on our end which resulted in your account being charged twice instead of once.
We have rectified the issue and have refunded the second charge back to your bank account. As per your request, the refund was processed to your bank account, excluding a 4% gateway fee. Please note that this fee is standard procedure and is retained by the bank.
Alternatively, we could have returned the amount to your IPXO account, in which case you would not have incurred any gateway fees.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.
If anyone is looking for an alternative, InterLIR @pavlosinterlir is decent
I have an account with them as well, prices are just slightly more from what I can see
Thank you for your feedback, Mike.
To clarify, we only apply an incident handling fee for cases of abuse that require manual intervention - currently, the majority of the cases are handled automatically.
Therefore, we allow two free cases per client per month for situations that involve irregular/untemplated reports, law enforcement subpoenas, or escalated automated case sequences that require manual intervention from the Abuse Prevention team.
At this period of time we only charge for instances related to Spamhaus.
More information can be found under "Manual incident mitigation and handling fees" here: https://www.ipxo.com/kb/abuse-prevention-and-reputation/abuse-incident-handling-marketplace/
We also extend services designed to identify risk areas for customers and reduce instances of abuse. Our approach is to maintain flexibility with all cooperative clients, focusing on prevention, not punishment.
As a platform that serves both IP holders and IP lessees, it's crucial for us to maintain fairness to both parties. That being said, I will take your feedback to our internal team to make sure we review our policies and continue to act fairly towards our community.
Thank you!
We've been working with them for 2 years and so far no problem from them.
Hi
Regarding incident handling feels I would like to know is this per client or per /24 ?
Because a client with just 1 x /24 has way less chances rather then a client with 40 x /24
So a client with 40 x /24 is 40 times more prone to these fees
So if you allow 2 free cases per client then isn't it unfair with clients who give you more business ?
Nooooooo. That is not what happened at all and I have the emails back and forth to prove it.
You guys clearly came back after the fact and double charged my card with the second time having the higher processing fee. None of which was authorized and was basically theft.
That isn't even the real problem. The real issue is that I wasted an entire month dealing with IPXO in first place.
This was one of my concerns when we were looking for IP space. IPXO was considered as an option but ultimately we just purchased our own /24 outright through a broker.
Companies like Hetzner which do a terrible job on their automated abuse reporting could get all your ranges suspended if someone spoofs your IPs toward their network, since they will automatically send netscan/ddos reports to the abuse contact.
It's just too big of a risk to use services like IPXO in production for hosting.
Indeed, and as a LIR service provider, we can't verify it for our clients.
I agree with @HostEONS and @MikePT, 2 incidents per customer a month is NOT even remotely a good number! Leave aside 40x /24's, with only 2x /24's, if you are hosting VPS' on those ranges, you'd be hitting that constantly in the LE market of customers. The LE market is riddled with buyers buying a $2 VPS to spam with, and never responding to tickets, and letting that VPS get terminated for spamming. To them, it's $2 who cares, to us it's our subnet that we now have to fiddle with getting off lists.
So yeah, 2 times for a customer is not even remotely a good number. I could see 2 times per subnet, even though I feel higher would be better, 3 would feel more comfortable.
Why not simply disable all mail ports?
@jfreak53 @IPXO I was referring only to complains that involve manual intervention
We are already getting 2-3 complains every alternate day, but these are automated complains and I've not been asked to pay for anything
For complains like brute force attacks etc... I think as long as they are under control I don't think it's anything to worry, but yes even I was not aware of charges for abuse complains, hence even I wanted to know how it works for clients who have lots of IP with them.
We used to do that but it even impacts good clients
So we stopped doing that, but instead of keeping watch on SMTP traffic on all nodes on regular basis
Moreover we keep watch on users who order multiple IP as those the main culprits
But we still mention in our TOS and AUP that we may block SMTP Port, so yes we can do it if needed
lol that's a joke.
All you need to do as an attacker is to fake a few complaints, done deal. This is infact common practice by certain parties, it is their standard operating procedure to generate fake abuse complaints etc.
We've had this done to us, fake complaints, and there may have been a real one, but each complaint was multiplied by up to 1300 times at a quick glance.
Further, you just took content moderator stance with that, which means are you going to take responsibility for all customer's customer's customer data too? Do you have on site staff checking what kind of por...linux isos that customer's customer's customer has?
I couldn't agree more with these
You guys are looking at it from understandably the hosting provider and not the middleman perspective, though.
These block owners that allow IPXO to rent them will be down their necks if they don't take abuse seriously and are proactive about it.
Buy your own IP space if you want full control, simple as that.
It is the middleman who is allowing ip block owners to list their ip blocks on their site, and as middleman has the rules whose ip blocks owners need to agree before they list their subnets, middleman should make clear and add one more rule to let block owners know that in hosting even non hosting industry the abuses are normal the key is to work and resolve/delist them!
Sure thing, they should know that abuses happen even if they use for their own network, that's why most of us take action and suspend/terminate such customers. But you cannot predict what each customer is going to do with your services! Actually you don't know what is more stressfull, the customer who use your service only for fraud and on another side a fear that ipxo will suspend/terminate your account with i.e 19x/24 subnet just because of one /24 who was used for illegal activities.
Fantastic, do you really believe that, if each of us who use to rent subnet have that budget, we will rent ips from brokers? Of course not!
Hi
Thank you for your insightful comments. We are in the process of reviewing our policies to ensure that we maintain fairness for all our clients.
Our standard policy allows for two manually handled cases per client each month. However, it's important to note that we offer specialized agreements for larger clients tailored to their unique requirements.
If you feel that this arrangement poses a specific issue for your company, we encourage you to contact our team to discuss and address your particular concerns. Thank you!
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. If you have supporting evidence, we kindly ask that you submit it via direct message or provide us with an email address where we can reach you. Doing so will help us thoroughly review the situation, identify what went wrong in your case, and take steps to prevent similar issues in the future. We are genuinely committed to making things right.
We're not just a business; we're a team of real people who care about delivering a quality experience.
We apologize for the slight miscommunication from our end. To clarify, IPXO has a policy that allows for a tolerance threshold of up to two manually handled incidents per client each month. You can learn more here: https://www.ipxo.com/kb/abuse-prevention-and-reputation/abuse-incident-handling-marketplace/
For larger clients or special cases, we offer customized agreements to meet unique requirements. Open communication is crucial for us, and we highly value responsiveness from our clients. When issues arise, we approach them with understanding and aim to resolve them fairly.
That being said, we are currently reviewing our policy in light of this discussion to ensure that we continue to operate fairly. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Unrelated, but I'm curious why you're an Albanian hosting company but are reselling Mevspace, who's in Poland. Was there no one in Albania to use? It would have been cool to have another exotic location out there
I have a server with them and it's in Albania (atleast AFAIK, I've not digged much really)
EDIT: well doesn't seem like so lol, 4ms to Warsaw (either way works fine for me, I just need the GeoIP data)