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Comments

  • The stupid VirMach did not realize that Chinese talent was his biggest customer, and blatant discrimination against Chinese customers was sign one's own death warrant。

  • uptimeuptime Member
    edited December 2019

    @shenyin said:
    The stupid VirMach did not realize that Chinese talent was his biggest customer, and blatant discrimination against Chinese customers was sign one's own death warrant。

    @shenyin with all due respect, I would caution you to be more careful with your words.

    Don't embarrass yourself.

  • @shenyin said:
    The stupid VirMach [...]

    This is popcorn for a moderator...

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @Kiwi83

    Take our money and shut up. We pay you so we are the boss. Who are you to decide what payment method we can use.

    Exactly! :wink:

    @VirMach
    That’s the gap, let me tell. I understand what you mean about Credit Card in EU/US, I’ve been there. It’s quite different from China.

    Firstly, Credit Card in EU/US with card number, expire date and CVV can be use directly. That increased the risk of stolen. But Credit Card in China, if you want to use it, you should not only input infos below, but your payment password and SMS verification. Being stolen is nearly impossible unless yourself being brainwash by others. Consider under our environment, we can’t comprehending the situation you said about: Payment location doesn’t match can cause such risks? Then the quarrel happens.

    What's more, in EU/US, if your money in Credit Card being stolen, you can report to the bank, and they will compensate for your loss immediately. Then the bank will handle the remain process, lock the card, contact the police, trace the money and get it back from companies which receive the money. In China, if your Credit Card being stolen, the bank will NEVER pay for your loss. The only thing you can do is to contact the police by yourself, let them trace who used your money, and the hope is less. Even if the police find out where the money went to, such as a company, they will NEVER return back your money. It is supported by the law of China, keeping Credit Card safe is the users’ duty. Once you being stolen, no one will be responsible for your loss. A company receive a money, whatever it comes from, if the process of their receive is legal, they can just receive it, no more subsequent responsibility. So the companies in China can receive money from stolen Credit Card legally, they don’t need to invest on safety check. For Credit Card owners in China, under such safety insurances(Password, SMS...), you lost your money, you deserves it, no one have the obligation to help you. That’s the rule, quite different.

    One more thing, let me explain how we realize Password / SMS check while using Credit Card. The payment system in Western is VISA / Master Card, their tradition is to verify behind payment, you just put your info and wait for charge. In China, the payment system is Union Pay, evey payment will be check immediately through their platform. For example, I purchase on abc.com, input my card info, click purchase, the page will turn to a checking platform like check.unionpay.com (Just example, I don't remember), ask for your password and SMS verify, if passed, it callback abc.com and turn back to your payment page.

    My classmate from China gave her Credit Card info to Gucci.com while buying online, they automatically deducted fees from her card without asking for password and SMS code. It caused her extremely discomfort, worried about her money being stolen. This happens a lot. In China, if you give an unfamous website your Credit Card info and there's no payment institution check, your money will be stolen in a very high probability. We can't imagine a company who record your card info and then get money from it directly. That's one different as well.

    I don’t deny your decision about payment method change, just explain the difference, then you may understand why some people don’t understand you at all and why they are anger. I support a suggestion below, for old users they can continue use PayPal, for new users, they can only use Credit Card / AliPay / Wechat, but be fair to all users, not only China, then the quarrel will reduce. And for Stripe, I haven’t heard it before, will try it and feedback, thank you for your mention.

  • Setting restrictions on Chinese paypal users sounds hilarious...this will only leads to tons of cn users(and shitty users)to use another identity to register a us/hk/jp/... paypal and continue to place the orders.
    Don't ask me why they can get these paypal accounts,ask Paypal,Inc.

    Thanked by 1lowendclient
  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    daozhi said: stop selling cheap deals

    Stop selling cheap deals to Chinese buyers from China.
    No BF/flash deal to Chinese buyers from China, problem solved.

    Or, They have to fund the account first before purchasing Flash Deals.

    We do not want to punish an entire region because of a few bad apples. That is our intention. But it's not possible to target those very few problematic people if we cannot in any way target their tendencies, which happen to be shared by fifty-fold other people in that region.

    This is why we tried gathering feedback, to see what those majority of non-problematic people thought.

    Robotex said: @VirMach Could you give a look at ticket #496891? There L2 tech replied that my service isn't eligible for Windows, like if some flag doesn't show on their screen.

    And I'm sure I got to select Windows at checkout because it's running your 2012 template

    This was one that was not advertised as Windows. It should have not had Windows, it wasn't advertised, but it was incorrectly selectable on the configure page. I understand how this could be confusing though if people were relying on the selectable option and not the actual package specification advertisement.

    I'll see what we can do about these right now.

    ID 845,876, 951,1015, 1016, 1023, 1308, 1320, 1366, 1503, 1525, 1526, 1528, and 1534 were possibly affected.

    If anyone was rejected please try again and don't take no for an answer, just have it flagged to management and I'll take care of it. For now we'll give this list to lower-tier staff. I actually think I rejected a couple of these myself but we'll definitely just honor it now. There's not that many so it's do-able. Eventually this may have to turn into if you selected Windows initially you get re-installs but if you selected Linux it's Linux compromise, just so we don't have to keep track of this list forever. But if you contact us this week we can definitely change it up for you to show as it having come with Windows (but only if you're the above plans, this isn't an invitation for everyone else to take up support time for no reason just to try their luck.)

    cece said: stop your aff would solve all the problem.

    The way WHMCS handles this isn't ideal, we would have to try to code something but I don't think they have the proper API for it. We wouldn't want to just halt payouts immediately for everyone that referred these packages, but I do agree with you that this encouraged a lot of abuse. Many of the botters/mass account creators referred themselves and hoped we wouldn't notice and that's enough reason to make sure it's not repeated for flash deals. We do also need to inform affiliates that flash deals are ineligible. I think the best way to do it would be to just, again, if we ever decide to do them again, have it just hosted it a completely different brand/sister website and a new product so previous affiliates are not affected.

    TimboJones said: It makes perfect sense. They're asking for options on dealing with Chinese customers without having to completely give up on China. They don't need to discuss this publicly, but in the West, transparency is valued.

    I still do want to re-iterate that this isn't our plan, it was meant to just be a possible outcome after a discussion. And if we did it, we wouldn't just do an if statement = China and call it a day. But we would probably try to move China toward using AliPay or another payment (I haven't gotten any suggestions other than Union Pay via PayPal) while the rest of the world we tried to get to use credit card. It just works better, and it's not discrimination because China region is the only one that uses Alipay to a high degree, not others. AliPay isn't... for example, Europe-friendly or popular there (I'm not even sure if they even offer their processing outside of China.) And it's harder to process credit card in China and easier elsewhere when China values their privacy more and wants to also use VPN, and not put a full address down. I was trying to focus on the fee amounts and other issues like that, but we can't just let everyone across the world pretend to be one giant country because credit card fraud is low in China but not elsewhere. I think I've seen a couple cases like this from China whereas other places there are thousands.

    So to be very clear, it's not just China bad, everywhere else good. Each region has it's unique "average" preferences and our antifraud works best based on location. If someone wants to develop an AI antifraud system that perfectly sorts through these problems per region without locking it to a region to keep everyone happy and in unison, please go ahead. We would pay for it.

    Edmond said: UnionPay isn’t used as much, domestically, but it should be supported by Stripe. Maybe advertise it, they might think VISA and MasterCard only...

    Can someone verify this for us before we advertise it?

    zhujiwiki said: If virmach don't like Chinese,please forbid Chinese.

    If you don't want to treat Chinese on an equal footing,please cancel the alipay and wepay.

    Do you really want to be equal? Because that means no VPN orders. Should we not allow Alipay/China to have different policies because it may offend the rest of the world? Even though it's high accuracy that we have way less problem with China and VPNs?

    RecD said: Well, online.net forces everyone to use credit card as payment method until three continuous billing cycles. Then, you are eligible to choose PayPal as your payment method.

    Edit: how about banning the PayPal for all new account until their accounts are older than X months?

    If we did any PayPal changes it would almost certainly be moving forward, not retroactive. It doesn't make sense to remove PayPal from people. It was always meant to be moving forward for new customers/orders.

    But we never really got to discuss it, it's good that some people are finally giving some feedback instead of immediate outrage similar to immediate disputes :)

    shenyin said: I believe that orders from China will be greatly reduced in the future.

    shenyin said: The stupid VirMach did not realize that Chinese talent was his biggest customer, and blatant discrimination against Chinese customers was sign one's own death warrant。

    Stupid VirMach introduces Alipay and grew China revenue threefolds, whereas without Alipay the only other option was to raise prices due to fee amounts on small packages that most of China preferred.

    That’s the gap, let me tell. I understand what you mean about Credit Card in EU/US, I’ve been there. It’s quite different from China.
    Firstly, Credit Card in EU/US with card number, expire date and CVV can be use directly. That increased the risk of stolen. But Credit Card in China, if you want to use it, you should not only input infos below, but your payment password and SMS verification. Being stolen is nearly impossible unless yourself being brainwash by others. Consider under our environment, we can’t comprehending the situation you said about: Payment location doesn’t match can cause such risks? Then the quarrel happens.
    What's more, in EU/US, if your money in Credit Card being stolen, you can report to the bank, and they will compensate for your loss immediately. Then the bank will handle the remain process, lock the card, contact the police, trace the money and get it back from companies which receive the money. In China, if your Credit Card being stolen, the bank will NEVER pay for your loss. The only thing you can do is to contact the police by yourself, let them trace who used your money, and the hope is less. Even if the police find out where the money went to, such as a company, they will NEVER return back your money. It is supported by the law of China, keeping Credit Card safe is the users’ duty. Once you being stolen, no one will be responsible for your loss. A company receive a money, whatever it comes from, if the process of their receive is legal, they can just receive it, no more subsequent responsibility. So the companies in China can receive money from stolen Credit Card legally, they don’t need to invest on safety check. For Credit Card owners in China, under such safety insurances(Password, SMS...), you lost your money, you deserves it, no one have the obligation to help you. That’s the rule, quite different.

    One more thing, let me explain how we realize Password / SMS check while using Credit Card. The payment system in Western is VISA / Master Card, their tradition is to verify behind payment, you just put your info and wait for charge. In China, the payment system is Union Pay, evey payment will be check immediately through their platform. For example, I purchase on abc.com, input my card info, click purchase, the page will turn to a checking platform like check.unionpay.com (Just example, I don't remember), ask for your password and SMS verify, if passed, it callback abc.com and turn back to your payment page.

    I don’t deny your decision about payment method change, just explain the difference, then you may understand why some people don’t understand you at all and why they are anger. I support a suggestion below, for old users they can continue use PayPal, for new users, they can only use Credit Card / AliPay / Wechat, but be fair to all users, not only China, then the quarrel will reduce. And for Stripe, I haven’t heard it before, will try it and feedback, thank you for your mention.

    We fully agree with you here. China does a great job with their credit cards. We don't really get chargebacks for actual fraud like we do elsewhere. It's just disputes/chargebacks for customers being upset for whatever other reason.

    We don't have a problem with anyone using Stripe with their credit cards. I mean we would obviously still prefer AliPay, but 2.9% plus 30 cent fee on Stripe with no refund fees is better than 4.4% plus 30 cents and refund fees on PayPal. So if it's actually just this problem then I really don't get why most people from China would have any problems just using Stripe especially if it takes Union Pay?

    Again, we wouldn't be able to just limit China only anyway, but if we did it across the globe fully with no filtering at all then it would end up hurting China because that means we can't accept VPNs on credit/debit card.

    People in other parts of the world would just pretend to be from China to do credit card fraud. Or we would have to do custom filters with Union Pay, but then again, we'd be singling out China pretty much, right? Or is it only bad to target regions if it doesn't benefit China?

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @FrozenAngels said:
    Setting restrictions on Chinese paypal users sounds hilarious...this will only leads to tons of cn users(and shitty users)to use another identity to register a us/hk/jp/... paypal and continue to place the orders.
    Don't ask me why they can get these paypal accounts,ask Paypal,Inc.

    Exactly. I've got three PayPal accounts (CN/UK/US) with different identities and card binding.
    I believe there will be people who have much more accounts than me.
    And it will substantially increase agency payment business.

  • BTW since @FAT32 has an account in hostloc now I am wondering what will happen if you post that 'translate' to the forum...
    I don't know why you are going to trigger a keyboard war between cn users and virmach.

  • FAT32FAT32 Administrator, Deal Compiler Extraordinaire

    @FrozenAngels said:
    BTW since FAT32 has an account in hostloc now I am wondering what will happen if you post that 'translate' to the forum...
    I don't know why you are going to trigger a keyboard war between cn users and virmach.

    I didn't expect that to happen too, all I want is SOLVE the problem but I don't know why it triggered everyone. It was already posted on Chinese forum about half an hour ago.

  • @VirMach said:

    Credit card fraud is low in China but not elsewhere
    We fully agree with you here. China does a great job with their credit cards. We don't really get chargebacks for actual fraud like we do elsewhere.

    There are massive Credit Card frauds in China but the bank and police will ignore nearly all disputes from the victims. As I said, it's a consensus in China that whoes Credit Card being stolen is their own fault, they deserves it, So no one will pay for their loss.

    People in other parts of the world would just pretend to be from China to do credit card fraud.

    I agree with you, that's one worth consideration.

    For Stripe,


    OMHG it uses API from Google!! Nearly unable to use...


    Then I uses private VPN and register, first impression, what a mass, I have to figure out all of this in a long time... Others may not have the patience.

  • @lowendclient said:

    @VirMach said:

    Credit card fraud is low in China but not elsewhere
    We fully agree with you here. China does a great job with their credit cards. We don't really get chargebacks for actual fraud like we do elsewhere.

    There are massive Credit Card frauds in China but the bank and police will ignore nearly all disputes from the victims. As I said, it's a consensus in China that whoes Credit Card being stolen is their own fault, they deserves it, So no one will pay for their loss.

    People in other parts of the world would just pretend to be from China to do credit card fraud.

    I agree with you, that's one worth consideration.

    For Stripe,


    OMHG it uses API from Google!! Nearly unable to use...


    Then I uses private VPN and register, first impression, what a mass, I have to figure out all of this in a long time... Others may not have the patience.

    Don't worry, it won't be long before this is figured out. Heck I didn't even think it was possible to write a bot script to camp and buy only the good BF deals!

  • PieHasBeenEatenPieHasBeenEaten Member, Host Rep

    Gosh I been sick and the China talk for 1000th time again. Really this like STD you can't get rid of. If stupid people do stupid stuff it always affects the majority. Stop saying it racism. Half the fucks that say it is racism has never really dealt with racism. Really I waiting for more talk from people about how brown folks shouldn't be in Europe. Oops we had that talk here too. Really all these conversations shouldn't really be discussed on a forum about cheap vps's. But that is just my opinion. Peace bitches!

  • xddxddxddxdd Member
    edited December 2019

    VirMach said: This is why we tried gathering feedback, to see what those majority of non-problematic people thought.

    I personally prefer Paypal over Alipay because I can set up billing agreements. Saves me the hassle of renewing my VPS manually every year, and gives me an advantage in grabbing flash sales.

    FAT32 said: I didn't expect that to happen too, all I want is SOLVE the problem but I don't know why it triggered everyone. It was already posted on Chinese forum about half an hour ago.

    The reason Chinese hosting community got outraged is that:

    1. FAT32's initial Chinese comment here is quite aggressive, but both of his English translations did not reflect this nature.
    2. Some mod (presumably FAT32) banned one user for posting aggressive Chinese comments here a few pages back, but FAT32 did not receive any punishments for his words. People on Chinese hosting community are sensing double standards.
  • PieHasBeenEatenPieHasBeenEaten Member, Host Rep
    edited December 2019

    If people want to keep opening these screw virmach threads well I'm going to ban you. Want to keep saying that is racism you get banned! It is easy!

  • edited December 2019

    For anyone that is doing business with Chinese inside China, when you accept their money, you deal with them, please don't bring up how horrible and difficult it is after the fact. You made a business decision, just deal with it.

    Other people, like FAT32, please restraint yourself from getting involved.

  • edited December 2019

    Chinese people should not debate over chinese character on an english forum..

  • @PieHasBeenEaten said:
    Gosh I been sick and the China talk for 1000th time again. Really this like STD you can't get rid of. If stupid people do stupid stuff it always affects the majority. Stop saying it racism. Half the fucks that say it is racism has never really dealt with racism. Really I waiting for more talk from people about how brown folks shouldn't be in Europe. Oops we had that talk here too. Really all these conversations shouldn't really be discussed on a forum about cheap vps's. But that is just my opinion. Peace bitches!

    I defend @FAT32's right to make racist (or if as you say, aggressive) statements as a member. But being a moderator comes the responsibility to be just to all members of our community, the same reason a public servant cannot have any political affiliation, and a celebrity cannot say the N-word and then walk away free.

    @FAT32's statement (the part in Chinese) was extremely cultural cringing (if he's a Chinese) or ethnocentric (if he is not a Chinese who happens to speak good Chinese), in which both are third-rail issues in China.

    If you don't understand why Chinese friend on LET is so angry about his statement, then I guess you will also never understand how NBA and Arsenal got into their mess recently, and my only suggestion for you is to read the Chinese history from 1840 to 1945. But if you do understand, I think you should join me to call on @FAT32 to resign from the role of moderator for the good of the community, for his action invalid him from being a just moderator of LET anymore.

  • uptimeuptime Member
    edited December 2019

    @xddxdd said:
    The reason Chinese hosting community got outraged [...]

    thanks for adding that perspective. While I tend to see the Hostloc reponses mainly as manufactured outrage, I would like to better understand the exact nature of the "aggressive language" ...

    There are some subtleties in connotation that are easily lost in translation.

    For example, I am inclined to make the (dubious but arguably self-evident) claim that in the American English cultural context, it is expected that a moderator may point out when someone is acting like an idiot, and this is not a terrrible insult just a simple fact of life.

    However, for someone to persist in calling a moderator a "bitch" would generally not be tolerated.

    That said, while I understand how it can happen - I really don't like to see people get banned for a single (possibly misinterpreted) comment, so I hope some followup might be made to confirm whether @wfjoyce and @FAT32 really intended to call each other an idiot or a bitch ...

  • PieHasBeenEatenPieHasBeenEaten Member, Host Rep

    @fkj awe sounds you are butt hurt!

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider
    edited December 2019

    FrozenAngels said: Setting restrictions on Chinese paypal users sounds hilarious...this will only leads to tons of cn users(and shitty users)to use another identity to register a us/hk/jp/... paypal and continue to place the orders.
    Don't ask me why they can get these paypal accounts,ask Paypal,Inc.

    As I've stated, if any only if we did anything, it would not be based on China. That would clearly not work. It would just end up mainly applying to China though because it would be low-amount PayPal payments that are international, for example. If China customers end up somehow paying with a US-registered PayPal after the minimum limit, then a good part of the problem is already resolved.

    I think one option could just be going back to annual-only plans for PayPal for the smaller services up until SSD1G.

    greattomeetyou said: For anyone that is doing business with Chinese inside China, when you accept their money, you deal with them, please don't bring up how horrible and difficult it is after the fact.

    You made a business decision, just deal with it.

    Sorry but we did not agree to have the customers set our terms of service, policies, and available payment methods. If anyone wants to control that they can request a custom contract with us which we can do for Enterprise customers.

    You are also saying when we accept their money. The entire feedback was in regards to not accepting their money in a certain case that is met with higher fees and abuse.

    Other people, like FAT32, please restraint yourself from getting involved.

    Of course, only people who agree with you completely should get involved. That's one way to ensure we don't receive the feedback we requested and come up with a great solution, and it does seem like some people want it to fail.

    lowendclient said: I agree with you, that's one worth consideration.

    For Stripe,

    OMHG it uses API from Google!! Nearly unable to use...

    Does this happen in every case or only if you get marked as potentially being a bot?

    PieHasBeenEaten said: Gosh I been sick and the China talk for 1000th time again. Really this like STD you can't get rid of. If stupid people do stupid stuff it always affects the majority. Stop saying it racism. Half the fucks that say it is racism has never really dealt with racism. Really I waiting for more talk from people about how brown folks shouldn't be in Europe. Oops we had that talk here too. Really all these conversations shouldn't really be discussed on a forum about cheap vps's. But that is just my opinion. Peace bitches!

    It is purely just different regions having different versions of abusers and at this time we're having more trouble in a region. For all other regions we have pushed out measures in the past, and clearly no one was upset by it.

    I know they're some higher level of disconnect in this specific region which is why I was trying to gather some feedback.

  • @lowendclient thanks for sharing those differences, sounds like you have a better system there!

    Do you guys have chip cards? We just got them everywhere the past few years, but of course the card can still be used online without it...

    Thanked by 1lowendclient
  • RobotexRobotex Member
    edited December 2019

    @VirMach said:

    Robotex said: @VirMach Could you give a look at ticket #496891? There L2 tech replied that my service isn't eligible for Windows, like if some flag doesn't show on their screen.

    And I'm sure I got to select Windows at checkout because it's running your 2012 template

    This was one that was not advertised as Windows. It should have not had Windows, it wasn't advertised, but it was incorrectly selectable on the configure page. I understand how this could be confusing though if people were relying on the selectable option and not the actual package specification advertisement.

    I'll see what we can do about these right now.

    ID 845,876, 951,1015, 1016, 1023, 1308, 1320, 1366, 1503, 1525, 1526, 1528, and 1534 were possibly affected.

    If anyone was rejected please try again and don't take no for an answer, just have it flagged to management and I'll take care of it. For now we'll give this list to lower-tier staff. I actually think I rejected a couple of these myself but we'll definitely just honor it now. There's not that many so it's do-able. Eventually this may have to turn into if you selected Windows initially you get re-installs but if you selected Linux it's Linux compromise, just so we don't have to keep track of this list forever. But if you contact us this week we can definitely change it up for you to show as it having come with Windows (but only if you're the above plans, this isn't an invitation for everyone else to take up support time for no reason just to try their luck.)

    Between all the recaptchas, 502, empty cart and "Sorry, please wait 10-15 seconds between each page.", I tried pressing back button/F5 so many times that I can't even count it, till the checkout page showed up and when it finally showed up in the hurry I just looked at the invoice description and total for reference, so I really wasn't too sure about what package I had gotten, actually I didn't even know there was more than one package until I read it here on LET 😅
    Thanks for clearing out my doubts though, will definitely create a general support ticket and tag management, maybe later when the waters will calm down 👍

    Thanked by 1VirMach
  • FAT32FAT32 Administrator, Deal Compiler Extraordinaire
    edited December 2019

    @fkj said:
    I defend FAT32's right to make racist (or if as you say, aggressive) statements as a member. But being a moderator comes the responsibility to be just to all members of our community, the same reason a public servant cannot have any political affiliation, and a celebrity cannot say the N-word and then walk away free.

    FAT32's statement (the part in Chinese) was extremely cultural cringing (if he's a Chinese) or ethnocentric (if he is not a Chinese who happens to speak good Chinese), in which both are third-rail issues in China.

    To reiterate my point, my statement is towards the 2 people I tagged only. Period.

    I already look up dictionary to confirm what I learnt in school is correct. And apparently the exact meaning of my wordings are not as bad as calling me "dog".

    Yes I agree I am being a bit aggressive but I am just quite tired of the nonsense. Frankly, I dont care about fame at all, I just want to help as best as I can, to either side or party that I think is correct after logically and objectively analysed.

    Again, I am sorry if my wordings made you guys angry.

  • @PieHasBeenEaten said:
    @fkj awe sounds you are butt hurt!

    Shouldn't you also be? Oh, my apologies, you are not Chinese. So for you, anyone can post like Hitler in Jerusalem because you are not a Jew, anyone can say allahu akbar at time square because you are not an American?

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    lowendclient said: My classmate from China gave her Credit Card info to Gucci.com while buying online, they automatically deducted fees from her card without asking for password and SMS code. It caused her extremely discomfort, worried about her money being stolen. This happens a lot. In China, if you give an unfamous website your Credit Card info and there's no payment institution check, your money will be stolen in a very high probability. We can't imagine a company who record your card info and then get money from it directly. That's one different as well.

    I missed this part. I mean it makes sense on why PayPal could be preferred for protection; that was my hunch in the beginning, but it's not really any extra protection. We still win pretty much all the disputes because they're not valid. We only lose the actual fraudulent ones, which is very rare from China at least.

    It also makes sense on why people remove their PayPal link but it does end up costing us money if they feel comfortable and do not bother cancel cancelling at all as a result. That one month service just turned into being 20% longer due to the grace period we have to have to avoid people forgetting to pay and being upset there. I'll see if we can do any type of one-time card payment with Stripe maybe as an option instead of link, for China only (sorry the rest of the world, I guess we're racist.)

  • PieHasBeenEatenPieHasBeenEaten Member, Host Rep

    @fkj oh my gosh you are still crying! The dude apologized take it for what is worth. He explained what happened! I bet you cry racism pretty quick too! Anyways if you want a hug well you won't get it from me!

  • I hope everyone will vote with their feet and stop choosing VirMach.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    @shurait said:
    I hope everyone will vote with their feet and stop choosing VirMach.

    Definitely not looking like that's happening so its probably best for those who are upset to come forward and make realistic suggestions on how we can improve everything for China while still being able to curb some abuse that's related to a small minority of people that happen to be in that region, and to try to get rid of some of the problems we are facing as a result of some shifts in how a good portion of customers deal with certain situations.

    What is upsetting you?

    Thanked by 3FAT32 alilet exiust
  • @PieHasBeenEaten said:
    @fkj oh my gosh you are still crying! The dude apologized take it for what is worth. He explained what happened! I bet you cry racism pretty quick too! Anyways if you want a hug well you won't get it from me!

    I don't want a hug from some hard-hearted. I'm just upset that @VirMach is taking all the blame and the one who caused this shitstorm is stubborn to do anything.

  • fkj said: the one who caused this shitstorm

    And who exactly might that be, pray tell? This shitstorm was ginned up by abusers looking to make as much noise as possible to distract from their shitty behavior.

    The mod you've been trying to put on the spot here is the one person actually willing to work with Chinese members to facilitate better communication.

    At this point, may I kindly ask if you would in fact consider it racist for me to point out that you are acting like an idiot?

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