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★ VirMach ★ Black Friday & Cyber Week 2019 ★ RAID 10 SSD ★ KVM ★ Check inside for offers! - Page 127
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★ VirMach ★ Black Friday & Cyber Week 2019 ★ RAID 10 SSD ★ KVM ★ Check inside for offers!

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Comments

  • lowendclientlowendclient Member
    edited December 2019

    @VirMach said:

    What would be the concern here, that AliPay/WeChat can send your information to the government and UnionPay/PayPal can't? If we accepted UnionPay would this issue/concern go away? I assume UnionPay is not supported on our credit/debit method? I thought Stripe integrated support since 2018.

    Through PayPal, China UnionPay can only know we purchased to Virmach.

    If the government wish to trace the money to VPS, they should go through:
    UnionPay(China) -> PayPal(Singapore) -> Virmach(USA)

    Seems safer than:
    UnionPay(China) -> AliPay(China) -> Virmach(USA)

    Also, we can pay through PayPal balance, which can be charge through third-party.
    (Anonymous companies), Just like:
    Money(Chinese Yuan) -> Third-party(Europe exchange) -> Euro(VISA Global) -> Paypal(Singapore) -> Virmach(USA)

    That's much much better than the former two.
    As I know, many webmasters do like this.

    Thanked by 1abjr
  • @lowendclient said:

    @VirMach said:

    >

    Did you know we do not allow Alipay payments for other regions than China, Hong Kong, and some others where it's popular? If someone makes an order from the US for example, and they're not just a Chinese customer putting US as their country, we usually reject these orders. They don't happen often, but the point is that we already enforce various payment rules based on regions. Sometimes we might get high fraud rate from Brazil, and we have to ask everyone in Brazil for their IDs. It's unfortunate, but these things do happen by region.

    We just don't understand why you care so much where the buyer purchase his money.
    Even if a client purchase on Jupiter, for the money is real, why don't you take it?
    This will be a frequently asked question in our community understanding.

    Oh dear, this is a hard one to understand but I managed to figure it out.

    He basically said:
    Take our money and shut up. We pay you so we are the boss. Who are you to decide what payment method we can use.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider
    edited December 2019

    lowendclient said: We just don't understand why you care so much where the buyer purchase his money.
    Even if a client purchase on Jupiter, for the money is real, why don't you take it?
    This will be a frequently asked question in our community understanding.

    If we did this, our prices would have to be 2-3x higher then no one would purchase it and everyone would be negative affected.

    Because then we have to accept all those orders from Spain that are large/expensive and mostly fraudulent since Spain had some kind of credit card database leak or something like that -- I don't know much all I know is this is what happened to us. Then to be fair we would have to screen everyone the same way, and thoroughly since this problem is now there instead of being eliminated. Okay, so far we have a few percent extra for the money lost on Spain, and maybe 15% extra cost to screen all orders instead of just ones from a region. Now moving on to Nigeria. Right now most people purchase from there using Cryptocurrency. There's still a high rate of abuse from there we have to deal with, but we can't just say oh look this guy used Cryptocurrency, he's from Nigeria, and he's hosting a phishing site we should probably look into it. We have to say look, this guy is from Jupiter. He's using, who cares what payment method he's using. Oh wait, that's everyone now. So now we check every customer for this specific pattern. Add another 5-10% since this is maybe a little easier than screening/checking the entire payment again. Oh but we have to also accept non-Cryptocurrency payments from Nigeria. Okay, great, now we have $2,000 more in orders a month, that's amazing. Oh, right, the phishing people from Nigeria phished credit cards so they're using those for payment and charged back all of them, now we have -$6,000 from the dispute fees. I'm sure the legitimate customer from Nigeria would rather pay an extra few percent just so we don't ask him for ID. Let's go ahead and move onto the United States. Since we know this region a little bit better, we categorize it by states. If a guy is from Washington and he is paying from Florida, let's allow him to order because maybe he's just a good guy that's traveling and definitely not a chance he could be using a stolen card, right? And for other countries, we don't discriminate based on provinces after all. If someone is from China we just say they're from China, so how is it fair if we don't say he's just from the US and let the order through? Let's let those through too. Add 10%.

    (Edit) Bonus: we allow VPNs in China, let's allow it for all payment methods from all regions! Congratulations we are out of business from fraud.

    If you guys would like this let me know, if 50% of customers sign up to be billed double I'm sure we can make it happen if that's their preference, to pretend everyone is from Jupiter.

  • @weiai No, they don't want to "ban" anyone or anything.

    They are trying to find a solution to a problem of them losing money.

    This specific case of PayPal refunds with Chinese customers happen to be something that cost them too much money.

    So they are trying to find a solution to the problem that will help them, while NOT harming Chinese customers.

    Somehow you think it is about wanting to ban or discriminate, but it is not?

    Thanked by 1Falzo
  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    @lowendclient said:

    @VirMach said:

    What would be the concern here, that AliPay/WeChat can send your information to the government and UnionPay/PayPal can't? If we accepted UnionPay would this issue/concern go away? I assume UnionPay is not supported on our credit/debit method? I thought Stripe integrated support since 2018.

    Through PayPal, China UnionPay can only know we purchased to Virmach.

    If the government wish to trace the money to VPS, they should go through:
    UnionPay(China) -> PayPal(Singapore) -> Virmach(USA)

    Seems safer than:
    UnionPay(China) -> AliPay(China) -> Virmach(USA)

    Also, we can pay through PayPal balance, which can be charge through third-party.
    (Anonymous companies), Just like:
    Money(Chinese Yuan) -> Third-party(Europe exchange) -> Euro(VISA Global) -> Paypal(Singapore) -> Virmach(USA)

    That's much much better than the former two.
    As I know, many webmasters do like this.

    Sorry I still don't understand this specifically: does Stripe not allow UnionPay? So that would still be UnionPay(China) -> Stripe(US) -> VirMach(US)

    Because Stripe still charges 1.5% less and gives back fees on refund. Or what about purchasing prepaid cards, Visa/Mastercard? US, EU, US. Still can be used on Stripe instead of PayPal.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider
    edited December 2019

    weiai said: I have looked at the method at other merchants. If you pay with PayPal, you will need an exclusive handling fee of about 5 percent. I can recommend that you adopt the original price to pay the order when using Alipay, and an additional fee of about 5 percent when using PayPal, of course, a percentage No. 5 is a hypothesis of mine, and this method is that customers can use it selectively and it is applicable to all customers. If you specifically target China, please ban Chinese purchases .Thanks @VirMach

    The thing is we don't want to charge anyone more money.

    If you do n’t want to, then you should not ask whether to ban PayPal in China, because you should not treat customers differently. For most people, 5% is mostly acceptable. Of course, many details need you to do. Made, and they can use other payment methods for exemption. You want to make a ban on the use of PayPal in China, then other countries and regions have the same problem, just because they are small, China and the world as long as they have purchased services Are guests, you should not treat them differently.

    At the very least, if we did any sort of "handling fee" it would have to be split between United States and non-US, because that's exactly how PayPal charges us, and it would be based on order size, because that's how PayPal charges us (the base fee.)

    We just wanted to avoid this, but I guess it would work the same way. Except we would definitely have to deal with the other set of complaints on why we're charging people more so I don't think it would work. All this will end up doing is making sure we just raise the prices of specials or do less discounts in the future, or maybe we just make PayPal discount-exempt. That last idea I just came up with might be the best. I'll verify with PayPal what we can even do without them being upset.

  • VirMachVirMach Member, Patron Provider

    @atomi said:
    I feel sorry for @VirMach about all this hassle from BF. I bet all he just wanted to provide us nice offers not getting attacked. Next year these same people are bitching when there are no good offers....wonder why

    If everyone across the globe, who could, switched from PayPal to AliPay, we would save enough money to reduce the price of Black Friday specials by 15% next year. If more customers continue to increase their support requirements, like making a lot of disputes, tickets, custom requests, used less optimal payment methods, self-referred, used bots, and so on... we could be looking at up to a 20-30% price increase next year, if we decide to do a sale next year.

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • @Kiwi83 said:
    Virmach just want to change the payment method for Chinses users. Why do you people make such a fuss about it? Isn't Alipay easier to use for Chinese users? What on earth got into you guys?

    Probably because some of them buy in bulk and sell on the accounts and if there is a chance that Virmach refuses or finds fraudulent behavior then they file a dispute/charge back. Otherwise it indeed does not make any sense at all.

  • Actually, you can just ban all the customers from China or stop selling cheap deals(this may also keep Chinese customers away), since you seem make little profits but stuck into many problems and troubles.

  • @VirMach said:
    ... if we decide to do a sale next year.

    Noooooooooooooo :(

  • debaserdebaser Member
    edited December 2019

    @Kiwi83 said:
    Take our money and shut up. We pay you so we are the boss. Who are you to decide what payment method we can use.

    This is what I’m reading for pages now. These people feel entitled to anything because they’ve spent some dollars. But guess what: the merchant decides what they sell, how they sell it, to whom they sell it and how a buyer can pay.

    Don’t like it? Go away! Bring your money to another provider that accepts the payment provider you want to use. Making such a hassle about it is not necessary.

    I think Virmach listens very well. He is clearly looking for the right solution to separate malicious users from normal users. To lose less money one chargebacks. Any other business would have just decided. Without input. But I guess some people here are just very demanding.

  • edited December 2019

    daozhi said: stop selling cheap deals

    Stop selling cheap deals to Chinese buyers from China.
    No BF/flash deal to Chinese buyers from China, problem solved.

    Or, They have to fund the account first before purchasing Flash Deals.

  • @VirMach said:

    Robotex said: Definitely unclear, seeing there's no info as well on the billing panel about what OS (custom?) options are enabled on each service. At the time, when I tried to add the deal to the shopping cart, the "Windows available" text was there, but because website was very overloaded I had to refresh a few times before I was able to reach the checkout page, so maybe the rounds got mixed?

    There was an issue where after being sold out/switched the offers showed as having Windows, but when the offer was actually sold it did not show as Windows.

    If you got to select Windows, then Windows is available. There were some cases where Windows was available but it didn't get listed on the site (but not the other way around.)

    @VirMach Could you give a look at ticket #496891? There L2 tech replied that my service isn't eligible for Windows, like if some flag doesn't show on their screen.
    And I'm sure I got to select Windows at checkout because it's running your 2012 template

    It's not that I don't like 2012, but because I got this VPS to learn some HA/windows kubernetes clustering and docker requires atleast windows 2016 to run, I cannot install docker 😅

  • @Robotex said:

    @VirMach said:

    Robotex said: Definitely unclear, seeing there's no info as well on the billing panel about what OS (custom?) options are enabled on each service. At the time, when I tried to add the deal to the shopping cart, the "Windows available" text was there, but because website was very overloaded I had to refresh a few times before I was able to reach the checkout page, so maybe the rounds got mixed?

    There was an issue where after being sold out/switched the offers showed as having Windows, but when the offer was actually sold it did not show as Windows.

    If you got to select Windows, then Windows is available. There were some cases where Windows was available but it didn't get listed on the site (but not the other way around.)

    @VirMach Could you give a look at ticket #496891? There L2 tech replied that my service isn't eligible for Windows, like if some flag doesn't show on their screen.
    And I'm sure I got to select Windows at checkout because it's running your 2012 template

    It's not that I don't like 2012, but because I got this VPS to learn some HA/windows kubernetes clustering and docker requires atleast windows 2016 to run, I cannot install docker 😅

    Virtio is the driver to allow windows VMS to work (allow access to the hdd etc). This ain't windows chief

  • stop your aff would solve all the problem.

  • In 2019, I have spent ~$400 in VirMach and the average should be ~$6. I can not stop my hands clicking pay buttons and will save some money if PayPal disabled as finally could find a way to stop paying these cheap things......

  • @Creling said:
    I don't like the way virmatch appears as a victim. Whether they need Chinese customers, they know for themselves.

    I don't know if it would make sense to discuss with non-Chinese people about disabling PayPal for Chinese customers, to win public sympathy?

    It makes perfect sense. They're asking for options on dealing with Chinese customers without having to completely give up on China. They don't need to discuss this publicly, but in the West, transparency is valued.

  • UnionPay isn’t used as much, domestically, but it should be supported by Stripe. Maybe advertise it, they might think VISA and MasterCard only...

    PayPal is shit in general.. You should just end up dropping PayPal, at least for China orders, but, if possible, just drop PayPal completely.

    PayPal sucks, they charge too much..

  • Edmond said: PayPal sucks, they charge too much..

    We really need some competitions in this space.

  • I have to applaud @virmach for keeping his cool while having to repeatedly say the same things over and over and people still not getting it. I would have lost my shit several times already. If your wife ever says you don't have patience, show her this thread as proof.

    Thanked by 1skorous
  • @FAT32 said:
    @wfjoyce @supereric Don't get me started.

    No one force you to use their services. Find me one, just one provider that has been in business longer than VirMach, has better uptime than VirMach, yet provide cheaper services than their crazy BF deal (less than $5/yr with similar specs). Look at how all the shitty summer hosts that deadpooled.

    别再丢人现眼了,爱用就用,没人逼你用。真香定律知道吗?嘴上说不要但心里却很诚实,还不是因为便宜购买了,有种你就不买不看不吵啊。找给我一家比 VirMach 更长久更稳定且更便宜的公司再和我说吧。没有几家公司可以提供5刀年付的小鸡。记得以前的四大金刚吗?到最后不是只剩 VirMach?

    对于一边挣国人钱,一边有又说国人的不是,这类商家就是既要做婊子,又要立牌坊.而你是婊子的龟公

    Making money from being a whore, yet still expect a monument of chastity.

  • @supereric said:

    @Virmach
    I bought two server from you. one paid with alipay .the other paid with paypal. I never open any ticket, and never open paypal dispute. I know some point from you when you often change tos follow your mind.

    You should be know 87% traffic come from China.

    You also should be know why You offer wechat pay or alipay .

    You should be known why you offer 64RAM vps,

    You should be known why server auto power off when I install lnmp suite fail with 2 core 4Gb ram instance.

    You should be known why you offer 10 GB traffic only

    You should be know we need pay for any support ticket or any email change or push the server to another account.

    The key point is YOU JUST WANT TO ERAN MORE MONEY BASE ON REJECT CUSTOMER'S Reasonable requirements!

    Low value customer is your target, Please think why when you set up a memorial arch .It is a joke.

    Of course, you can do it as you want. but why not reject any customer from China,or offer a fair solution and offer a normal servicr if you own basic business ethics. But

    ** look like your business is a joke when you offer some deal and said I don't know whether can be run**

    Anyway, I hope China customer giveup or stop renew any service in Chinese forums. Since from me.

    Support you, it makes sense.

    If virmach don't like Chinese,please forbid Chinese.

    If you don't want to treat Chinese on an equal footing,please cancel the alipay and wepay.

  • @hkvip8 said:

    @FAT32 said:
    @wfjoyce @supereric Don't get me started.

    No one force you to use their services. Find me one, just one provider that has been in business longer than VirMach, has better uptime than VirMach, yet provide cheaper services than their crazy BF deal (less than $5/yr with similar specs). Look at how all the shitty summer hosts that deadpooled.

    别再丢人现眼了,爱用就用,没人逼你用。真香定律知道吗?嘴上说不要但心里却很诚实,还不是因为便宜购买了,有种你就不买不看不吵啊。找给我一家比 VirMach 更长久更稳定且更便宜的公司再和我说吧。没有几家公司可以提供5刀年付的小鸡。记得以前的四大金刚吗?到最后不是只剩 VirMach?

    对于一边挣国人钱,一边有又说国人的不是,这类商家就是既要做婊子,又要立牌坊.而你是婊子的龟公

    Making money from being a whore, yet still expect a monument of chastity.

    But the fact is still tons and tons of Chinese users use (also resell for profit aka scalping) Virmach services. That's the fact that cannot be changed. Yes lots of complain this and that but still , continue paying for their services!

    This reeks of hypocrisy!

    Every provider has their Terms of Service (ToS) and for Virmach their ToS is in English. So for a start use Google Translate and make sure it is agreeable before buying their $5 BF deal.

    Read and understand that ToS first before coming to complain because it sounds really really funny most complaints here. I believe that is the context of FAT32's "丟人現眼“ which is probably not meant to be as offensive as some of the strawberries have protested it to be.

    And it's so easy to hide behind PayPal without full understanding of the terms and conditions and ask for refund but fact is it hurts Virmach but nobody cares!

    But then when Virmach wants to change to Alipay / Wepay why , start to fear? Again hypocrisy! Cannot understand. It is very amusing.

  • RecDRecD Member
    edited December 2019

    Well, online.net forces everyone to use credit card as payment method until three continuous billing cycles. Then, you are eligible to choose PayPal as your payment method.

    Edit: how about banning the PayPal for all new account until their accounts are older than X months?

    Thanked by 1lowendclient
  • @cybertech said:

    @hkvip8 said:

    @FAT32 said:
    @wfjoyce @supereric Don't get me started.

    No one force you to use their services. Find me one, just one provider that has been in business longer than VirMach, has better uptime than VirMach, yet provide cheaper services than their crazy BF deal (less than $5/yr with similar specs). Look at how all the shitty summer hosts that deadpooled.

    别再丢人现眼了,爱用就用,没人逼你用。真香定律知道吗?嘴上说不要但心里却很诚实,还不是因为便宜购买了,有种你就不买不看不吵啊。找给我一家比 VirMach 更长久更稳定且更便宜的公司再和我说吧。没有几家公司可以提供5刀年付的小鸡。记得以前的四大金刚吗?到最后不是只剩 VirMach?

    对于一边挣国人钱,一边有又说国人的不是,这类商家就是既要做婊子,又要立牌坊.而你是婊子的龟公

    Making money from being a whore, yet still expect a monument of chastity.

    But the fact is still tons and tons of Chinese users use (also resell for profit aka scalping) Virmach services. That's the fact that cannot be changed. Yes lots of complain this and that but still , continue paying for their services!

    This reeks of hypocrisy!

    Every provider has their Terms of Service (ToS) and for Virmach their ToS is in English. So for a start use Google Translate and make sure it is agreeable before buying their $5 BF deal.

    Read and understand that ToS first before coming to complain because it sounds really really funny most complaints here. I believe that is the context of FAT32's "丟人現眼“ which is probably not meant to be as offensive as some of the strawberries have protested it to be.

    And it's so easy to hide behind PayPal without full understanding of the terms and conditions and ask for refund but fact is it hurts Virmach but nobody cares!

    But then when Virmach wants to change to Alipay / Wepay why , start to fear? Again hypocrisy! Cannot understand. It is very amusing.

    A few cents is also called profiteering. You refreshed the definition of the word again. While letting others use Google, please use Google to translate the Chinese part of fat32 first. Because of your own laziness, you haven't figured out the truth of the matter at all. fat32's post is bilingual in English and Chinese, but the English attitude is very good, and the Chinese words are very rude. His Chinese ability is very good. This is the so-called double standard, and it is more appropriate to use the word hypocrisy to describe him.

  • @VirMach said:

    @atomi said:
    I feel sorry for @VirMach about all this hassle from BF. I bet all he just wanted to provide us nice offers not getting attacked. Next year these same people are bitching when there are no good offers....wonder why

    If everyone across the globe, who could, switched from PayPal to AliPay, we would save enough money to reduce the price of Black Friday specials by 15% next year. If more customers continue to increase their support requirements, like making a lot of disputes, tickets, custom requests, used less optimal payment methods, self-referred, used bots, and so on... we could be looking at up to a 20-30% price increase next year, if we decide to do a sale next year.

    @VirMach said:

    @atomi said:
    I feel sorry for @VirMach about all this hassle from BF. I bet all he just wanted to provide us nice offers not getting attacked. Next year these same people are bitching when there are no good offers....wonder why

    If everyone across the globe, who could, switched from PayPal to AliPay, we would save enough money to reduce the price of Black Friday specials by 15% next year. If more customers continue to increase their support requirements, like making a lot of disputes, tickets, custom requests, used less optimal payment methods, self-referred, used bots, and so on... we could be looking at up to a 20-30% price increase next year, if we decide to do a sale next year.

    You can block access from Chinese IP addresses.

  • @yiyezhiqiu said:

    @cybertech said:

    @hkvip8 said:

    @FAT32 said:
    @wfjoyce @supereric Don't get me started.

    No one force you to use their services. Find me one, just one provider that has been in business longer than VirMach, has better uptime than VirMach, yet provide cheaper services than their crazy BF deal (less than $5/yr with similar specs). Look at how all the shitty summer hosts that deadpooled.

    别再丢人现眼了,爱用就用,没人逼你用。真香定律知道吗?嘴上说不要但心里却很诚实,还不是因为便宜购买了,有种你就不买不看不吵啊。找给我一家比 VirMach 更长久更稳定且更便宜的公司再和我说吧。没有几家公司可以提供5刀年付的小鸡。记得以前的四大金刚吗?到最后不是只剩 VirMach?

    对于一边挣国人钱,一边有又说国人的不是,这类商家就是既要做婊子,又要立牌坊.而你是婊子的龟公

    Making money from being a whore, yet still expect a monument of chastity.

    But the fact is still tons and tons of Chinese users use (also resell for profit aka scalping) Virmach services. That's the fact that cannot be changed. Yes lots of complain this and that but still , continue paying for their services!

    This reeks of hypocrisy!

    Every provider has their Terms of Service (ToS) and for Virmach their ToS is in English. So for a start use Google Translate and make sure it is agreeable before buying their $5 BF deal.

    Read and understand that ToS first before coming to complain because it sounds really really funny most complaints here. I believe that is the context of FAT32's "丟人現眼“ which is probably not meant to be as offensive as some of the strawberries have protested it to be.

    And it's so easy to hide behind PayPal without full understanding of the terms and conditions and ask for refund but fact is it hurts Virmach but nobody cares!

    But then when Virmach wants to change to Alipay / Wepay why , start to fear? Again hypocrisy! Cannot understand. It is very amusing.

    A few cents is also called profiteering. You refreshed the definition of the word again. While letting others use Google, please use Google to translate the Chinese part of fat32 first. Because of your own laziness, you haven't figured out the truth of the matter at all. fat32's post is bilingual in English and Chinese, but the English attitude is very good, and the Chinese words are very rude. His Chinese ability is very good. This is the so-called double standard, and it is more appropriate to use the word hypocrisy to describe him.

    To start off, I didn't refresh profiteering. I do believe it is through this BF deals that many buyers redefined the meaning of scalping. How did you know if is "few cents"? Did you resell for a "few cents" profit? Let's talk numbers in actual figures please, don't use expressions because "few cents" means so different in English.

    What's so bad about his Chinese words? Is "丟人現眼" a bad description of the constant complains because of failure to understand Virmach ToS?

    In your understanding, does "丟人現眼" mean "stop making such an embarrassment of yourself?"

  • I believe that orders from China will be greatly reduced in the future.

  • @shenyin said:
    I believe that orders from China will be greatly reduced in the future.

    So more LETers will be able to get great deals?

    Thanked by 2uptime skorous
  • @shenyin said:
    I believe that orders from China will be greatly reduced in the future.

    Haha I really doubt so, but lets see next year black Friday ok?

    Thanked by 1uptime
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