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Budget European Colo Anyone? - Page 2
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Budget European Colo Anyone?

2

Comments

  • hzrhzr Member

    randvegeta said: Ample capacity to cool. We expect to be able to keep the ambient temperature at a similar level to the outside temperature, meaning we would only need to use actual coolant during the very rare hot days. Otherwise, water based cooling should provide us ample capacity given the amount of power we have.

    How cold is it there usually, out of curiosity?

  • @hzr said:

    randvegeta said: Ample capacity to cool. We expect to be able to keep the ambient temperature at a similar level to the outside temperature, meaning we would only need to use actual coolant during the very rare hot days. Otherwise, water based cooling should provide us ample capacity given the amount of power we have.

    How cold is it there usually, out of curiosity?

    Cold, apparently.

    July is the hottest month in Kaunas with an average temperature of 17°C (63°F) and the coldest is February at -5°C (24°F) with the most daily sunshine hours at 10 in July. The wettest month is June with an average of 80mm of rain.

  • WSSWSS Member

    Water based cooling.. like.. a swamp cooler? How's the battery backup/generator/et al status?

  • bacloudbacloud Member, Patron Provider
    edited January 2018

    @randvegeta said:

    Network (routing) wise, they are kind of similar to us. So pricing wise, if you assume a 999 EUR /month budget (where they offer a 42U full rack), which includes 100TB (call that an average of 300Mbit) traffic and 1.5kw of power, my pricing model would be around 330 EUR (1/3 the price) and include much more space.

    Of course maybe you specifically need 10TB burstable traffic, and we could not offer that at the moment. So if that 10TB burst is worth 670 EUR, then go for BACloud. But for that extra 670 EUR, we could offer an additional 1,340Mbit, for a total of 1,640Mbit. That equates to about 500TB monthly data transfer.

    Ultimately, there are always differences between certain providers and it will come down to preference. Our DC is based in Kaunas, and theirs is in Siaulai. Kaunas may be better for many due to better transport links over Siaulai, but then if that matters to you, maybe Vilnius or Klaipeda would be preferable.

    But ours will be based in Kaunas.

    Well, I do not agree with you about routes. We have almost the same routes and almost the same pings and more than 90% client's outside Lithuania. Does 1 - 3 ping changes anything in Europe, in the world? Nothing. Klaipeda? Are you serious? Do you know any data center in Klaipeda? Sorry, but I do not know any serious data center in Kaunas. Almost all data centers are located in Vilnius and ping to Vilnius from Kaunas and Siauliai will be almost the same. It will be a bit higher from Klaipeda ( end point of the network ring ). Klaipeda has a line to Sweden ( Telia ), but Telia is not flexible with high prices and old technologies. We had Telia and cancelled the contract. Probably no one likes our town, doesn't look serious to host servers in Siauliai? LOL, people, make it simpler. We have direct line to Riga and you don't. But It doesn't change anything.

  • hzrhzr Member
    edited January 2018

    what. I understand none of that, why is riga important here, 3 ping is a huge difference :??

    Thanked by 2WSS Aidan
  • WSSWSS Member

    Well, this was a change of events I didn't expect.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    bacloud said: Well, I do not agree with you about routes. We have almost the same routes and almost the same pings and more than 90% client's outside Lithuania. Does 1 - 3 ping changes anything in Europe, in the world? Nothing. Klaipeda? Are you serious? Do you know any data center in Klaipeda? Sorry, but I do not know any serious data center in Kaunas. Almost all data centers are located in Vilnius and ping to Vilnius from Kaunas and Siauliai will be almost the same. It will be a bit higher from Klaipeda ( end point of the network ring ). Klaipeda has a line to Sweden ( Telia ), but Telia is not flexible with high prices and old technologies. We had Telia and cancelled the contract. Probably no one likes our town, doesn't look serious to host servers in Siauliai? LOL, people, make it simpler. We have direct line to Riga and you don't. But It doesn't change anything.

    There are not a lot of top tier choices in LT, and just about all ISPs have the same upstreams. So what I meant was performance and international routes will be similar.

    As for my comments about Klaipeda, well thats mainly due to slightly better transport links. And by transport, I mean road/rail/sea (not network) and so it may be SLIGHTLY easier in one of the 'big' cities. Siaulai doesn't strike me as a major hub of anything (no offence) so I don't imagine that transport links to be particularly good. Vilnius is the capital, Klaipeda is the port, and Kaunas is the industrial centre that is in between the two, that happens to have an 'international' air port. Many logistics pass through Kaunas. I don't think anything really 'passes' through Siaulai. But this is not really important. I don't think there is any problem with hosting in Siaulai at all, particularly if you are doing VPS/Cloud/Dedicated servers with clients mostly overseas. But if you're a Vilnius customer looking for colo in LT, and you have to drive you gear to the DC, Kaunas would probably be preferable over Siaulai (of course Vilnius would be even more preferable). And if you're going to fly into LT to install your own gear, Kaunas and Vilnius would be easier to get to since you have to fly to one of those cities any way.

  • urg i didn't want to start that

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @lion said:
    urg i didn't want to start that

    You kind of asked a loaded question. I have a lot of respect for @bacloud, but it's hard to answer that question without kind of being a dick.

  • hzrhzr Member

    lion said: urg i didn't want to start that

    Other things you don't want to start: purchase the game "playerunknown's battlegrounds", queue on any server, and in the lobby loudly yell the statement that Taiwan is an independent country.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    WSS said: Water based cooling.. like.. a swamp cooler? How's the battery backup/generator/et al status?

    Our current UPS backups have enough battery to to last about 45 minutes at full load. We only have a small generator, which we have recently grown out of, and so we currently rent a big generator for whenever there are long instances of power maintenance. With that in mind, we are installing a 2nd supply of power from a different substation. In order for both of our power sources to go down simultaneously, basically the whole city would have to be without power. Long term I think we would rather invest in more battery capacity than a generator.

    As for cooling, our current setup mainly uses traditional coolant based air-conditioning. Our density is too high to use water cooling only year round. But with the new space, we expect a reduced density, and so our water cooling method would be sufficient even in the summer. As @Aiden said, even summer is not that hot, so it would be only a few days (or couple of weeks) per year where we may need a little more 'umpf'.

    Anything below 25C is fine for all computer/server gear. Why some DC's run at 17C is beyond me. Getting below 20C would trivial for most of the year, and would only be difficult to get below 25C if the outside temperature is above 22-23C. In which case we could supplement with old fashioned A/C cooling.

  • How much to Colo a pi?

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    lurch said: How much to Colo a pi?

    They use so little power. Call the power 1EUR /month. I assume bandwidth will be low too? So call that another 1EUR /month. So from 2 EUR /month? + installation + remote hands + any other add-ons. Will give IPv6 for free, but an IPv4.... another 1 EUR! So 3 EUR /month so far. Too much? :D

  • LordSpockLordSpock Member, Host Rep

    This would be a great pricing model, but as mentioned before - it would be preferable to have limited data transfer on a higher port speed. (many users burst but don't push a full port). Also, what would your DDoS protection prices be?

    Charging for space would make sense for inactive boxes at a minimum, perhaps this should be an introductory offer and not anything permanent.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    LordSpock said: Charging for space would make sense for inactive boxes at a minimum, perhaps this should be an introductory offer and not anything permanent.

    Oh I forgot to mention, that it would probably not be a 'life-long' model. Space is not unlimited or free, and we could not possibly know what the future conditions will be. So we would probably limit this to about half our capacity.

    Charging for storage of inactive boxes would definitely be done. Since I mentioned that we would not provide free storage space, I figured it would was pretty clear that we would charge for off-line storage. But we would allow for some small amount of gear to be 'stored' and read to deployed. If you're doing colo, you almost certainly will need some stock ready at all times.

  • @randvegeta said:

    lurch said: How much to Colo a pi?

    They use so little power. Call the power 1EUR /month. I assume bandwidth will be low too? So call that another 1EUR /month. So from 2 EUR /month? + installation + remote hands + any other add-ons. Will give IPv6 for free, but an IPv4.... another 1 EUR! So 3 EUR /month so far. Too much? :D

    I'm in

  • I feel like the bandwidth is a bit pricey.... 150 EUR for 300Mbps 95th%?

  • WSSWSS Member

    @6ixth said:
    I feel like the bandwidth is a bit pricey.... 150 EUR for 300Mbps 95th%?

    Given that the space is virtually free, that's a huge discount if you need, say, about 20U of it..

  • 6ixth6ixth Member
    edited January 2018

    @WSS said:

    @6ixth said:
    I feel like the bandwidth is a bit pricey.... 150 EUR for 300Mbps 95th%?

    Given that the space is virtually free, that's a huge discount if you need, say, about 20U of it..

    Understandable if you have a big operation but I'm thinking from a perspective of me colocating a 1-2U server. The price wouldn't be feasible compared to other ones that include the price of rack etc.

    I'm assuming it's Gbit port but limited to 95% bandwidth? For example 90TBish if it was 300Mbps.

  • randvegeta said: They use so little power. Call the power 1EUR /month. I assume bandwidth will be low too? So call that another 1EUR /month. So from 2 EUR /month? + installation + remote hands + any other add-ons. Will give IPv6 for free, but an IPv4.... another 1 EUR! So 3 EUR /month so far. Too much? :D

    This would be perfect for small seedbox/FTP server.

    A Pi3 +1TB HDD disk cost around 60EUR. Then 3EUR/month but what if I use too much bw? Let's say 10TB+ (around 33Mbps+ at 95th%)?

    Note: This is my normal usage at home.

  • freerangecloudfreerangecloud Member, Patron Provider

    I like this pricing model. Nice to have the ability to purchase exactly what you need (why pay for a 100mbps connection, if you only need 10). I'd also like the idea of paying per amp (or fraction of an amp) rather then kwh, that way I'd have a better idea of what my monthly cost was going to be. Agree with the other posters that charging some nominal fee ($5/u?) for space would not be a bad idea to prevent abuse.

    Thanked by 1hostdare
  • In general I'd be interrested in EU budget colo. And I like to see someone trying a different pricing model!
    But for me, personally, the model doesn't work out as budget (= say, less than 30€ incl. tax with some power and a few TB traffic on a GBit port for 1U.) Example:

    50W = 5€
    100 MBit = 50€
    total: 55€ p.m. for a 50W server that I bought myself, on a stupid 100MBit uplink on an AS in Lithuania (which probably is, no offence, by far not as well connected as the big usual suspects in NL, FR, DE). Naaaah... For 55€ I can shop around for something much nicer.

    This pricing model is great for people with huge servers (if they are "within reason"), or people with VERY power efficient servers, or people who somehow manage to survive on a 10MBit uplink.
    So, coloing an Intel Atom mini-pc with 10MBit would be around 6€ p.m. which is great!
    Slap a few huge HDDs onto it, and you could have a giant fileserver/seedbox on an unlimited 10MBit uplink for less than 10€!!! But 10MBit in 2018? Then why go trough all that trouble? Just host on your smartphone.

    Personally, its mostly just the bandwith that kills this deal for me. I'd strongly prefer to have a GBit port and pay per GB/TB. So, fast bursts and not that much total traffic, instead of paying through the roof for unlimited traffic on a slow ass uplink. To please both types of customers, just offer both: slow unmetered and fast metered! And as a 3rd option maybe fast unmetered but shared/oversold/fair use. Problem solved!

    Thanked by 1willie
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    @that_guy said:
    In general I'd be interrested in EU budget colo. And I like to see someone trying a different pricing model!
    But for me, personally, the model doesn't work out as budget (= say, less than 30€ incl. tax with some power and a few TB traffic on a GBit port for 1U.) Example:

    50W = 5€
    100 MBit = 50€
    total: 55€ p.m. for a 50W server that I bought myself, on a stupid 100MBit uplink on an AS in Lithuania (which probably is, no offence, by far not as well connected as the big usual suspects in NL, FR, DE). Naaaah... For 55€ I can shop around for something much nicer.

    This pricing model is great for people with huge servers (if they are "within reason"), or people with VERY power efficient servers, or people who somehow manage to survive on a 10MBit uplink.
    So, coloing an Intel Atom mini-pc with 10MBit would be around 6€ p.m. which is great!
    Slap a few huge HDDs onto it, and you could have a giant fileserver/seedbox on an unlimited 10MBit uplink for less than 10€!!! But 10MBit in 2018? Then why go trough all that trouble? Just host on your smartphone.

    Personally, its mostly just the bandwith that kills this deal for me. I'd strongly prefer to have a GBit port and pay per GB/TB. So, fast bursts and not that much total traffic, instead of paying through the roof for unlimited traffic on a slow ass uplink. To please both types of customers, just offer both: slow unmetered and fast metered! And as a 3rd option maybe fast unmetered but shared/oversold/fair use. Problem solved!

    Yes that could be done. Fast metered, slow unmetered and something in between us totally possible. I just haven't come up with a price model for it yet :)

  • @randvegeta said:

    @that_guy said:
    In general I'd be interrested in EU budget colo. And I like to see someone trying a different pricing model!
    But for me, personally, the model doesn't work out as budget (= say, less than 30€ incl. tax with some power and a few TB traffic on a GBit port for 1U.) Example:

    50W = 5€
    100 MBit = 50€
    total: 55€ p.m. for a 50W server that I bought myself, on a stupid 100MBit uplink on an AS in Lithuania (which probably is, no offence, by far not as well connected as the big usual suspects in NL, FR, DE). Naaaah... For 55€ I can shop around for something much nicer.

    This pricing model is great for people with huge servers (if they are "within reason"), or people with VERY power efficient servers, or people who somehow manage to survive on a 10MBit uplink.
    So, coloing an Intel Atom mini-pc with 10MBit would be around 6€ p.m. which is great!
    Slap a few huge HDDs onto it, and you could have a giant fileserver/seedbox on an unlimited 10MBit uplink for less than 10€!!! But 10MBit in 2018? Then why go trough all that trouble? Just host on your smartphone.

    Personally, its mostly just the bandwith that kills this deal for me. I'd strongly prefer to have a GBit port and pay per GB/TB. So, fast bursts and not that much total traffic, instead of paying through the roof for unlimited traffic on a slow ass uplink. To please both types of customers, just offer both: slow unmetered and fast metered! And as a 3rd option maybe fast unmetered but shared/oversold/fair use. Problem solved!

    Yes that could be done. Fast metered, slow unmetered and something in between us totally possible. I just haven't come up with a price model for it yet :)

    How about 0.5 usd per 1 mbit guaranteed (slow), 1 usd per 300gb (~1mbit sustained) with at least a 50mbit burstable port, or 10x your "sustained" usage (whichever is higher)?

    So a 30TB traffic server could either get 1) 100mbit for 50 usd/month or 2) 30TB burstable for 100 usd/month with gbit burst capabilities?

    Or: 10 usd buys you either 1) 20mbit sustained or 2) "10 mbit for a month" = 3TB traffic with 100mbit burst?

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    teamacc said: How about 0.5 usd per 1 mbit guaranteed (slow), 1 usd per 300gb (~1mbit sustained) with at least a 50mbit burstable port, or 10x your "sustained" usage (whichever is higher)?

    So a 30TB traffic server could either get 1) 100mbit for 50 usd/month or 2) 30TB burstable for 100 usd/month with gbit burst capabilities?

    Or: 10 usd buys you either 1) 20mbit sustained or 2) "10 mbit for a month" = 3TB traffic with 100mbit burst?

    Sounds good. At the moment, we basically charge $5 per 1TB of traffic, which works out to be about US$1.5 per 300GB.

  • randvegeta said: we basically charge $5 per 1TB of traffic

    That's $115 less than Google!

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2018

    Anyone interested in colocating miners? 'Free' space, cooling included. Just pay for power basically?

    edit: In keeping with what was said earlier in the thread, call nice LET level of pricing of EUR 7 for each miner (+ power)

  • WSSWSS Member

    @randvegeta said:
    Anyone interested in colocating miners? Free space, cooling included. Just pay for power basically?

    Why is it that I detest you more when you're trying to do something nice?

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    WSS said: Why is it that I detest you more when you're trying to do something nice

    Why would you detest me at all? :(

    Any way, it's not altruistic. It's just a different pricing model I'm looking at.

    I have my own margins (slim as they may be) on power and bandwidth. With the setup I have in mind, we would likley run out of IPs and Power long before we run out of space or cooling capacity.

  • WSSWSS Member

    @randvegeta said:

    WSS said: Why is it that I detest you more when you're trying to do something nice

    Why would you detest me at all? :(

    You just kind of rub me wrong sometimes; that's life. It's not that I dislike you. I save that for idiots and assholes.

    I hate miners, though. Minors, too. GODDAMMIT GET OFF MY LAWN!

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