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INCERO - Holding hardware hostage & some extras
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And after reviewing their TOS, it's on the weak side when it comes to data centers. It offers them very little room to navigate on their side (which is really good for the client). Normally there's some wording in regards to equipment ownership and that all outstanding balances must be paid before shipping hardware and some even put a time period in which balances must be paid before the client relinquishes ownership of their equipment (usually in accordance with their local laws).
Op i had the same thing happen to my company. A dc try to hold our equipment hostage and say we were locked in a term of 12 months. But no one in the company signed an agreement for those terms. Well in the state of texas your are required to have a contract signed if you are leasing or renting anything for a period more than a quarter at a time. So the court threw out the dc's claim and awarded my company our equipment and extra money for the hassle.
Seems like the promo is 275$ for a rack. Pay up the 3 months and take your gear. It's most likely costing you more than that.
Yep. You have likely committed a fraud which in many countries is a criminal offence.
If I was Incero purely because of this I would have immediately reported this alleged fraud to the police and got local debt collection agency to collect this debt from you at your expense. If you don't pay up it would escalate to court action at even higher expense to you.
At this stage it doesn't matter who did what, as @jarland said - you have zero legs to stand on after what you did.
I wouldn't be surprised if after you've paid everything back to them with interest they would refuse to provide any further services to you, which includes and is not limited to de-racking, packing and shipping, as any payment you made may be reversed at any time. After you pay everything back, you may need to find a local person that will, at your risk of equipment being damaged / disappearing, de-rack, pack and ship it for you.
Good luck.
I wouldn't complain, but there's nothing like that in their TOS and I never agreed to their TOS anyway. And according to @PieNotEvenEaten a written contract is required anyway.
To clarify: I filed a PayPal claim/complaint (no claim that this is unauthorized), mainly so that I have buyer protection. I even stated (selected the option) that the service was provided, but that I'm not happy with it. I do not expect INCERO to refund any charges/fees already paid for services that have already been rendered, nor will I press for this.
You just said you've opened a claim for all your payments and asked your bank to file a chargeback, so clearly you're expecting to have charges for services already rendered refunded.
Free popcorn at: https://enjen.net/popcorn/
They don't mention the 6 months in any advertising. Yes you are bound by the ToS but most people don't read them, putting a contract term there is like hiding it.
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1610733
It also doesn't seem cool the way incero posted all the customers internal ticket logs on WHT.
I can provide screenshots to prove that I filed a complaint not a chargeback. The chargeback referred to a complaint I was going to file with my bank/credit card company (they specifically offer that option).
I would've read the TOS if I would ever've been asked to agree with it, but I never was.
Former Incero customer here. Yes, they have strict policies and sometimes think they are too strict with their enforcement, but I believe their customer service was excellent and reasonable to requests. Yes, their policies can be frustrating, but that is the risk of all hosting providers. A long time ago, I co-located a server at an old datacenter that charged me $125/hr for "remote hands" when my server died, because that was their policy. I believe it is the customer's responsibility (in all US states) to read the terms prior to signing up. I agree with @ascendrix they probably could have communicated this in a better way, but considering how much communication you had with them before and during setup, maybe it was partially your fault too for not asking these questions.
Co-location is not cheap. There are always "hidden" costs buried in the terms. I would not be surprised if Incero's policies are much different than other providers, though Incero certainly has a history of being less forgiving about violators of their policies.
That still results in PayPal withdrawing money and is the same as you'd pull a charge back just it's not the bank deciding but PayPal if you escalate. Complaint was about what ?
Options available:
I'm opening this dispute because:
I haven't received my item.
I received my item, but it is significantly not as described. For example:
The item was damaged or defective
The box was empty
The order was incomplete
What option could you possibly choose without committing a fraud?
No
No again.
I believe that in even in Texas no one can be expected to proactively look for Terms of Service. They should've make me confirm that I read and agree with their terms. At best this is a shady business practice. I do however agree, that I should've at least asked them about it before ordering.
I chose the second option (the order was incomplete), because they didn't deliver the service they're supposed to deliver. PayPal only withdraws any money (as far as I understood) if I escalated this, at the time all that's happened is that INCERO got an e-mail from PayPal saying that I filed the complaint and that they can now respond to it.
After reading the tickets on WHT I think you're best bet is to walk away. It's a horrible option but really your only one at this point unless you want to throw more money at the problem. You escalated to threats rather quickly and providers don't respond well to that.
No, the money was withdrawn immediately the moment you've opened the case. It doesn't even matter.
How did they not delivered the service? Did they delivered the colocation service ? Yes. Did your contract guarantee any other services? No, as you said you did not sign any contract.
As such, by my book you have no leg to stand on, and you'll soon realise this when the problem escalates to legal action from their end.
As I said, that's the first time I've ever had to do something like that in my entire life. I usually try to resolve that kind of issues by talking with the provider not by making threats. However, they've closed both tickets I had with them without actually responding to my questions about when I accepted their TOS or where exactly in their TOS they reserve the option of holding my hardware hostage.
Always always always read the fine print. If there is no fine print RUN!
As for the tickets, Incero provided useful information to the discussion and is allowed to defend themselves. They did so in a responsible manner.
If the money was actually withdrawn (I'll call PayPal tomorrow to check), I'll immediately take back/close the case.
Oh yeah and if they legally go after me they'll have to show up in court, here in Switzerland, and explain why I even owe them anything since we don't have a contract.
It is probably too late for that. You have already caused the damages you have. If you cancel the chargeback you also won't be able to start a new one.
Not sure I get all this story.
Well ... who's the bad guy? I can only see a "you take money, we take hardware" payback.
I understand that, you should consider this a learning experience. It sucks when such lessons are as expensive as this one but you'll be much better prepared next time you decide to colocate hardware. Luckily Incero is remaining professional about this (at least publicly) and giving you options whereas some providers would have stopped talking with you completely.
You have a bunch of randoms on a website throwing around terms such as fraud, etc. This is not competent advice, this is randoms (albeit some very experienced in IT) offering legal opinions (without demonstrated State of Texas legal competence. My humble advice- if you feel aggrieved, find an attorney in Dallas to give a consult or call the law school or call the state bar assoc for a referral. All of us have opinions, none of us know in totality what was promised, delivered, or where a lien on property was forced upon you (seizure of equipment in lieu of rent). So I guess its take the loss, negotiate, or hire an attorney but you knew that before you started ranting everywhere.
I never read nor agreed with their TOS and INCERO never even pointed out they have a TOS, read the whole thread. I never ticket a box saying I have read and agreed their TOS either, otherwise I wouldn't have placed the order.
So ... you had no clue about their policy and still placed the order?
Damn.
It doesn't matter now since you've filled a chargeback/dispute/complaint that resulted in payments being reversed. This in turn means that even if you had rights from the contract - you don't have them any more.