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@Spirit Yes we do have a lawyer and yes we do have an accountant. If you think I'm lying, file a suit against Catalyst. I urge you not to hire a cheap lawyer. I know exactly what my rights are and I don't need armchair "concerned citizens" to read them to me. One day someone might try to call my bluff. I'm not bluffing. It won't end well for them.
I hope you're aware how dumb impression this make at LEB/LET forum. Spare me with this macho posers forum crap.
@Spirit So you're saying that a business who works with a good lawyer is dumb macho crap? Spare me your ignorance. I'll be happy to get you in contact with our lawyer in private. He's not a cheap lawyer, that's why I'd urge you not to hire one that is, if you have a legal problem with me.
A business who has a lawyer is smart. A business who brags about it? it just looks bad, really.
@jarland no, I am saying that you're talking bullshit. As simple as that. I really don't give a $hit about your lawyer even in case you have any.
@superwhatever I was accused of not consulting a lawyer. How is correcting such a childish accusation bragging? I'm making a point that:
A. We do have a lawyer.
B. It isn't some cheap lawyer with a cubicle offering advice by the hour.
@Spirit Just shut up. You're such a child. I'll keep running a business, you keep making stupid accusations and not even caring to back them up. I offered to back up mine.
Good to know that small business can afford expensive lawyer to get custom policies. Many hosts here use auto-generated or simply stolen and slightly changed policies from other hosts. I salute you to this.
Huh? Who's child now? Calm down buddy.
@Spirit You can accuse me of all that you want, but that we do not have a very capable lawyer is not at all on the table. Continuing to make such an accusation after I have offered to connect you with him is childish. You want nothing more than for your point to be correct, that I too am an armchair expert. Well you're wrong, end of story. Now, am I going to go ask my lawyer to write a full legal opinion for me to post here? No. Have I consulted him on our policies and practices? Yes. Is it some random lawyer who is barely capable and very affordable? No.
@jarland so everything said by you in this thread base on his recommendations and not your personal opinion?
@Spirit Our practices and policies are legal, yes.
That's the smartest thing you said in whole thread. You shoud stick with that.
Is your lawyer aware of the fact that you are sending hashed customer information to a centralized database? I'm honestly interested in what he said about it.
@heiska Well, you have to consider a few things. First being that it is my understanding that the hash is not stored on the other end from the search alone, but rather from a report. I'll talk scare tactics, but the reality is that I will obtain an agreement from the client to void all previous agreements in exchange for my not contacting their local authorities. If I consider contacting the authorities vital, I will not bother with such an agreement or with FraudRecord at all.
The other thing you must consider is that the hash technically is not the data. It's a very technical exception that most people easily forget, despite its simplicity. I can understand forgetting, as it gets thrown in conversation with encryption a lot.
Ultimately at worst we have a grey area. As there is no legal precedent that compares directly to this scenario, a solid legal opinion would be that it should be approached with caution.
I think I'll go start up http://www.lowendlawyer.com now.
Is that what your lawyer said?
@MiguelQ You'll have to reference my previous statements. I'll compile them for convenience.
I cannot give you the direct answer that you seek. For that I apologize. My intent in the posts above was to point out that I do seek sound legal council, not that I will approach them for a full statement for each issue when asked on a forum. I'm sure you can understand why I would not do that.
Is this what your lawyer said, or is it your opinion?
@heiska See above. I'm sorry, but I don't pay a lawyer every time a forum thread raises a question. I do not have written statements about every line item. That doesn't mean they weren't part of a larger opinion, but I can't give you what you want. My statement there is the best I can do unless it comes up at another time in which case I'd be happy to get some clarification for you.
@jarland sure. What I wanted to know was if anyone here had consulted a lawyer in their jurisdiction about whether FraudRecord is legal or not. To me it looks like the answer to that is no.
@heiska As for whether we specifically conversed on that topic and sought a full explanation of justification, that would be a no. Our policies and practices have been reviewed. I think every host should have that done. In the future when an opportunity is available to single that out, I'm sure I'll take a moment and I'll remember that you were interested. I'd be happy to share what I find out.
That'd be nice, thanks.
But that's a paradox.
It's like an approval of the whole package, without line item reports. While our practices may have been reviewed and approved, I can't tell you the specific justifications for that because I didn't make a point to seek that. Keep in mind that we're not necessarily going in the front door and paying for a full package and completely detailed opinion. Rather, it's nice to have good contacts and trade favors.
What a bunch of stupid trolls. The only people who would likely even care about this issue and their 'privacy' are those who are most likely doing illegal things to begin with, thus getting them selves submitted to fraudrecord. Otherwise, if you are not doing anything illegal, and you have not committed fraud, what are you worrying about? I see this whole thread as a moot point. In all honesty those of you who do make it on fraudreport should be happy the providers are not involving local law enforcement or 3 letter agencies to track you down and put you in jail.
FraudRecord is like the lock on your front door, it is to keep honest people honest and fraudsters/abusers from making their way onto a server as your 'noisy' neighbor. If you are so against it then I hope you keep all your doors unlocked at night and you have melted all your guns. As you are obviously not worried about anyone coming to your house attacking you, robbing you or killing your family. So why do you need to lock the door or to have a gun to protect your self with?
TL; DR:
If you really care about this issue then do not purchase anything on the internet, because if its not FraudReport, it is MaxMind or Visa, or Matercard or any of the other groups that have the same databases, they just charge a huge fee to have access to it.
my 2 cents.
Cheers!
I don't think you can claim with a straight face that "our policies and practices have been reviewed and approved by a lawyer", if a practice of yours involving customer data has not been reviewed.
Sorry, I think you just misunderstand what I mean. It has been reviewed. I just don't have a paper to push to you that has a statement about that particular practice. Our policies and practices were reviewed, not in such a way that I have a full statement written about each one, but in a more casual manner by a very good lawyer. If it weren't for personal connections, I probably would have had our policies reviewed by some cheap lawyer. It's nice to have friends though.
Just pointing this out.
Yes Catalyst has an expensive lawyer (I can attest to this) and our policies have been reviewed by said lawyer and were given the green light.
@jarland Oh, I didn't realize your lawyer is aware of FraudRecord. So it is legal to use that thing then, according to your lawyer?
I sure hope so or it was a major oversight
Do also remember that it isn't my practice to use it to the degree that some others do.
Why do you use nickname instead real name at forum? Just like most criminals over internet. You must be hiding something...
As preventive measure you should be wearing GPS bracelet so that someone would know at any given moment where you are, and someone with access to read your text messages, e-mails and private activities at Facebook. Or do you really hide something?
Cheers!