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Comments
I mean, they dont read the ToS/AUP, even, what can we do about it ?
Pretty much the response I expected, pointless reading the rest.
I mean, they dont read the ToS/AUP, even, what can we do about it ?
Exactly, if the hosts, the "professionals" cant be bothered to read, are only interested to launch attacks in the hope some will stick, what can they expect from customers which are usually amateurs ? No wonder the industry goes down.
(shared) - (not dedicated) not hard to type.
Sorry if you feel this is an attack, maybe feeling some guilt
Show me where it says dedicated...
Not only that, but we specifically bold it out to say we OVERCOMMIT which is way more admission than just shared, for everyone to understand how the deal works.
How many of the hosts that say dedicated on OVZ really have enough resources to give everyone their share at max load ? We do on the other servers, here is like almost everyone else does. I am not sure I know one host which can truly guarantee resources on OVZ.
No worry, I am used to be attacked, this usually means I am right.
If you really feel it hurts your business, go and ask @Liam to make it clear in the LEB post, we obviously have no problem with that and agree with every possible wording you demand.
Jesus man, I have said more times than enough this is not aimed at you.
All you are doing is proving my point, which i specifically that it does not say anything dedicated or otherwise and absolutely will be considered dedicated and absolutely will have other hosts trying to do the same..
@AnthonySmith
thats @Maounique for you right there, continuing to argue when both sides agree ..
My 2cent on the overselling business that happens with OpenVZ (mainly) is that there should never be a user kicked off for using whats been advertised.
If a user, let's say orders the 5GB offer and uses 4,5 GB ... as long as that user is not "punished" in any way, (it has happened before with other providers here on LET) then I'm ok with the overselling.
I know that and it happened mostly with network for me, been kicked quite a few times for using 80% of the traffic or even less...
No, at most we throttle the user which goes OVER the advertised limits for a sizeable chunk of time AND hurts other customers.
It is statistically more likely to happen on the overcommited nodes than on regular ones, I am aware of that and I try to make it clear in all places so wont have more attacks from other hosts.
About kicking, well, kick for spam, ddos, fake shops/banks, copyrighted material we have complaints about and not removed in time, no reply to abuse tickets and no action, things like those.
We wont kick for using the advertised resources, at times it might be that they are not available all the time 100%. We will rectify that if it happens by lowering the commitment, but we planned the whole thing with that in mind, so it wont happen in the first place, just cant be sure since never did this before.
That doesn't make any sense. If the performance on a customer's VPS on provider A isn't good enough, they will move on to provider B. If demand on >2 GB/$7 with bad performance is what the market wants, then your choices are limited to either adapting or closing down the shop.
If there is demand for "dedicated" resources (which you are offering apparently), your business should be fine as long as you advertise the fact that the RAM you sell is dedicated, not shared. It's rather pointless to focus your energy on bitching at others for "preying on users" with their shared memory offers when it's clear that it's what the market wants.
@heiska fair point, I suppose my only counter to that would be that I don't feel that people truly understand what they are getting, you are coming to this from an educated perspective, you know that what you are buying is a shared resource.
Sorry if you think I am 'bitching' but I stand by my point.
Well @AnthonySmith is just keeping it real, his xen vps' really rocks, and I agree, many/most? of those huge ass cheap OVZ' are really sluggish and tbh crap, but not prometeus ones.
I am not sure the demand is for bad performance. I think everyone hopes to have good performance but after consistent failures began to mistrust the concept.
There are, however, hosts that can make it happen, cvps does it for years with minor glitches (btw, they were always better than the average LEB host, I was a customer in the beginning and was happy especially with the network)
We did it NOT oversold for 3 GB for almost a year and people run heavy games on it, had someone consistently doing 20 load for months before we even noticed such was the load on the server and it was one of those .32 kernel freezes when I looked up everyone and saw that.
Now we do overcommit for real and everyone panics...
Customers are afraid we go deadpool, hosts say we dont advertize properly the fact we overcommit, at first some didnt even think this is serious.
It was meant to be small on LET only, it went out of control and somehow now we have to make sure it works, it is not only a small set of LET friends on it as planned, therefore our responsibility is big and I hope we can pull it off.
So far so good, the first server is filled at the capacity we planned and load is barely 20%.
Second one is slowly filling up also.
No one thinks you guys will deadpool, I cannot find any reference to that, if you were not overcommitting you would not be using OpenVZ.
I would like to point out, in the interest of good business etiquette, that what I gave here was an estimate from my recollection of a slightly out of date spreadsheet and not a strict statement of Catalyst financials. Just for anyone reading. I like transparency but I want to make it clear that it was meant to speak more toward the the fact that we are a profitable business and not scraping the bottom of the barrel hoping to eventually get there, rather than publishing our financial statements. The idea remains true that projected profits per node are set to levels that are capable of sustaining our business. My statement of overselling being roughly 1.5:1 in our business plan, however, is an official statement
Unofficially, I seem to vaguely recall that the updated information to said spreadsheet is a bit better. There are also line items that are not currently public.
My apologies for sounding rude. I, by the way, like your service, I had a 128MB InceptionHosting XEN VPS for a year or so.
Uncle received PMs on that topic
Told me last night.
OVZ can be used without ovverselling, our Biz line usually has spare capacity.
The others run at capacity but the loads are usually below 30%, even spikes go to 50 or so, disk is used at 40% even tho we give little allocation and people complain about that, so you would expect they would use up all pretty quickly since it is so little.
Told me last night.
Email to be precise ;-)
I don't complain about provider selling 2-5-100GB ram for 7$. I don't plan to join this race to the bottom. However, what I do complain is that, this gives OpenVZ a bad name. My business plans are not built based on Lowendmarket but a huge amount of our clientele are from this wonderful community and thus, my plan is built on minimal overselling (I.E bandwidth and IOps).
This bothers me when a client opens a chat request or support ticket complaining why we charge 7$ for 1GB ram and some other charges 3$ for 2gb while both of us uses same hardware and software. It comes to a point where you can't explain to a client and becomes a game of massive assumption, where they "assume" that we are overcharging or they think we are too small to offer 10Gb ram for 1$.
I don't care you oversell or not. I know the game of unused an underutilized resources. But, since a client paid for it, I believe they should be able to use it. Dead simple. But please, do not use the term "Because this is OpenVZ". You can oversell KVM, XEN and even virtualbox and LXC. But you don't or even if you do, you don't tell "because KVM/XEN allows overselling".
Oversell what ever you want, how much you want. I have no issue. Just stop saying it is because it is OpenVZ.
/rant.
@Maunique Regardless how much ram you can put in, CPU will be your biggest bottleneck on that box.
I love Iperweb and I know these clients wont be abandoned even if this project fails. But I wish you guys best of luck
But do you understand maximizing synergy for optimal transorganizational global cloud performance?
First, thanks !
I expected the same regarding CPU but now it sits at 20-25% on the first, supposedly full, node.
That was at the first day and now:
There is only one benchmark in last 24 hours.
Regarding OVZ I fully agree !
OVZ has a bad name about overselling and this is done by bad hosts in general. One of the things we try to prove is this, OVZ can perform well even with overcommit.
The only bad thing is the instability of .32 kernel. We have only a few nodes with 6 month+ uptime compared with vmware, kvm and xen which are coming close to 1 year some even passed it long ago.
I only hope one day Solus will support veth and unlock a whole range of issues for which regular users and hosts have to apply patches,not to mention other features that wont work at all such as ipsec.
Now is not never
. As I have said, even if this fails, your clients will not be abandoned and this is what makes it trust able 
Only if you don't assume that just because we oversell we don't have the same mindset. I believe every client should be able to use what they buy. I do oversell memory. However, as you well know, every client simply will not use it and we have to recognize that while this is not an absolute truth, it is functionally equivalent to one in the real world. I'm not interested in turning off the orders when the node sits at 10% usage until it gets retired. I'd prefer it to be around 30%.
If I am on a path to seeing my clients getting close to not being able to use their resources, the correction to that path will be at my expense. That's the risk I take in running my business. The only potential victims are Ryan and myself.
So sure, it isn't because it's OpenVZ, but you can't get upset when your clients disapprove of your business plan. Wish them the best and walk them to the door. If that ends up being your entire client base, your commitment to 100% guaranteed resources at 0 risk to yourself of having to compensate for unforeseen circumstances is not desired by clients. If you retain and grow with said plan, ignore the cries of those who disapprove and keep doing what you're doing.
@Jarland you bastard. I would love to hate you but hate to love you
.
While this is the truth but I don't want to live in a world of terror of hoping users don't use all their resource. I don't have issue where I have to add more resource or make less money on a node, I am scared of the fact that, this will have a negative impact on every client on a said node. Be it for an hour or for a day.
Correct right there. While I have not receive many complain from existing clients, most of these are from presale. My client base is well saturated and I don't need to worry about losing client who jumps from one provider to another one because they will and this is a part of my business plan. I do take it personally when some one blames virtualization when it comes to price. If not making mistake, I have seen a post here where an user replied to an offer thread of some one else where he/she posted (Not exact quote) "Why so much for this little bit? This is openVZ".
I do have a biz vps, but rest of services as just as good. My "old" first kvm's are the best vps' I have, really.
That's how I get under your skin. Next thing you know you're driving away in a Ford Pinto and I've convinced you it's a Ferrari :P
I introduced biz plans on OpenVZ several months ago, they sell well if you consider how they are priced :-)
http://www.prometeus.net/sito/VPS
This is just to say that for me this is only another kind of service, more choice for my clients. it may works or not, only time will tell :P
Hehe, we have one disagreement, but in many other aspects we agree.
If there was no religion, we would have been the best of friends. Sadly, there is 
Sad you hate me, but the feeling is not mutual
Only when you start talking about one topic :P
OVZ has a bad name about overselling and this is done by bad hosts in general. One of the things we try to prove is this, OVZ can perform well even with overcommit.
The only bad thing is the instability of .32 kernel. We have only a few nodes with 6 month+ uptime compared with vmware, kvm and xen which are coming close to 1 year some even passed it long ago.
I only hope one day Solus will support veth and unlock a whole range of issues for which regular users and hosts have to apply patches,not to mention other features that wont work at all such as ipsec.
Thanks
.
.32 works when it wants to and well, since we can not afford an oracle Ksplice (late to the game) subscription, we need to reboot our nodes 2nd/3rd month for kernel updates. So can't tell if I have seen issue.
Solusvm? It is a mixed feeling. It is really sad that they still haven't fixed the issue with Ipstealing and IPv6
. I found a work around hack on their forum but still would prefer an official solution. I know solus devs are smart and as they say, smartest one is the laziest one :}
You can't. I prefer my 2 wheeler mountain bike over any car. Keep both ford and Ferrari to yourself
sounds like vps vendor psychotherapy session ... kidding ...
just curious when the Titan is planning to assault NA market.
are you gathering the troops as we speak ?