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Hehe, this is the most in depth and insightful discussion I've seen on this forum in a long time.
Lets settle for "VPSen"
cringes
Or lets keep the way it is. VPSs
edit.
Oh, it's ~en not ~es. Consent? Ok, fine! VPSen then.
No it shouldn't, because VPS ends in "s", and LEB doesn't.
And this make difference? As personal opinion or fact?
@Spirit yes this makes a difference, see above regarding different pluralization of stuff ending in "s" or with s-like-sounding endings.
P.S.: gosh in this discussion I feel like I'm explaining to someone that the Earth is round.
I did it. (see my post in previous page). Most grammar sources I checked aprove usage of Ss.
btw. that's not in arguing tone. It's nice thread where we know that we won't find common ground but who cares
And I feel like I'm explaining to someone who confuse personal opinion (how something SHOULD be) with fact (how it is) :P But it's ok. Even if you continue to spell virtual private servers as VPSes I will still like you
@Mon5t3r
VMs +1. I missed the Thank button.
@Spirit seems to be the only one here who knows why he's using it correctly (even if he only found out recently).
As was discussed thoroughly in http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/503/what-is-the-correct-way-to-pluralize-an-acronym, the correct use would be VPSs. Apostrophes are never (should never be) used for plural. As was stated near the middle of that discussion, using an apostrophe for an initialism would be called a Greengrocer's apostrophe. You've seen it many times at the grocery store. The highest voted replies all say the same thing.
Although some people like to use an apostrophe when making single letters, initlisms and so on into plural, it is not the best method.
Of course, if you are consistent, it's not so bad, but that means that ATMs would also have to be ATM's, just like your VPS's.
Just like many habits people using typewriters had (double spacing), and needed to drop with the computer, using apostrophes with easily identifiable computer lettering isn't necessary. You can tell that the trailing s is lowercase compared to the rest of the initialism.
VPSes is always wrong.
You can argue all day about "some people do it" but those people are just helping to lower the quality of the written language - and if you don't use the language correctly, you would be too. Some people like to say that the language is ever-changing, but that's incorrect. Lack of education can cause it to change for the worse, through popular inccorect usage, but there's no reason to bring down a beautiful language just because some people don't want to learn.
An opinion. It would be extremely inconsistent to use an apostrophe (or other method) just for initialisms that end with S. It would be no different from listing the alphabet in plural in this way: Os Ps Qs Rs S's Ts Us Vs. Of course, some people would argue that it should all be R's S's T's, etc. Again, with modern technology, and simple reading comprehension, nobody would be confused by listing it in this way: Qs Rs Ss Ts Us.
On a personal note, it's very saddening when people from ESL countries, or even countries where English isn't taught, are better at writing the language than people who only know and were only taught English.
I usually write it out as VPSes or VPS'es for effect.
@lzp I fully agree that apostrophe should never be used. Neither VPS's/VPS'es, nor VPS', nor VPSs', etc, all of these are bullshit.
But you are incorrect in saying that VPSes is always a wrong spelling. At the very least, it is an allowed variant (as a number of grammar-related sources say).
Virtual Private Server
VPS
Plural by English standards should then be VPS' .
Can avoid all the confusion by doing the untrendy thing of being verbose. Like this:
"I bough several VPS nodes" or "I have 5 different VPS accounts".
Basically passing by the VPS part and dealing with plurality with words around the VPS that clarify the multiple nature.
abbr(Virtual Private Servers) -> VPS
@rm_, the most commonly used grammar book (in colleges) was written by two people who had no idea how to write. The only reason it's popular is because it was written some time ago and pushed by professors who were also taught with that book. Even though everyone who isn't a shitty professor agrees that it's a horrible reference, it's still pushed on young(er) minds as what correct grammar should be due to the cycle of shitty teaching. I can't remember the book off the top of my head, but a few years ago there were a few articles written about it at around the same time. Essentially, the book just teaches you to do many things the wrong way.
My point is that just because a few people want it to be one way, it doesn't mean it's correct. If you're consistent in your own writing, go ahead, but don't push it on others as correct. Yes, the written language was changed heavily by a small amount of people (a couple hundred years ago), but those changes were adopted because they were beneficial. It wasn't a minority that agreed that they were for the better, like many of the "accepted" usage methods that some people want to push, but a majority of writers and publishers.
The language is definitely open to however you want to use it, but please don't teach your own special usage to others. It's no different from saying idiotic things like "real talk."
@tinyray,
That's a semi-interesting point too. What does VPS really standard for...? Is it already typically deemed to be plural? I would suspect it wouldn't be.... But who knows
Well you can just says "Virtual Private Servers" otherwise I like VPSs the best.
"vips"
No, an apostrophe is never used for plurals. This has already been proven more than once just in this thread. That would be a Greengrocer's apostrophe.
Allow me to correct you here
That's not true. I shortly discussed about this same topic with another long term LEB/LET member (JoeM) some year ago at IRC, and then with @rm few months ago at IRC and long before that I saw first thread about same topic around 2005 at WHT, made my own homework and since then I strictly use VPSs.
Thank you for confirmation though.
edit.
Ah, sorry @lzp - I see your reply now
I meant that as "even if he only found out today," not as "and he only found out today."
It sounded more like you already knew.
A very common mistake then @lzp
I've long see sawed on the apostrophe use on many things. It tends to be used as a stylistic matter it seems and as you've alluded to. Spent a while in advertising industry where they use apostrophes for everything, sinfully.
I tend to shy away from abbreviations of any sort (where possible). As I view them as mimicking slang and poor speech and thus, destroying proper spoken and written language. At same time I try not to be a prude and annoyance about common mislearned or unlearned English snafus. The English language is interesting, but an utter conflicting disaster.
As such, what I write is longer and tends not to fit into SMS
if VPS is solely for "Virtual Private Server" then "Virtual Private Servers" should be VPSes. I've never heard that
VPSs looks entirely wrong
. 95%+ of the public would insist something was mistyped there.
It may be correct, but would get odd eyes and attitude and some might dismiss you after describing the correctness as being insane, odd or adversarial. That's the state of our world these day
Yet another reason to steer clear of acryonyms.
Not that it's a true reference but VPS according to the Wikipedia is:
So VPS by that definition is a singular device.
The instances within it that we call VPS(whatevers) are virtual machines (VMs).
That seems to draw out part of the problem I think.
Host companies create VPS servers and sell VMs from within these servers.
Unsure who started calling the server the same things as the container instances within it...
@pubcrawler, I also dislike using abbreviations when they aren't necessary. It's a good thing they still make phones with keypads!
I try to ensure that my spelling and grammar is always correct, because not improving yourself, or passing it off as "whatever," is pointless. I'm no writer, and I'm sure I make many mistakes which I haven't been made aware of, but I will always look it up through multiple sources before I use something new or something that I'm not sure of.
I find the people who whine about being corrected to be quite annoying (usually happens on forums like reddit). They are essentially saying "I'm too dumb to learn anything. Life hurts; please kill me." It would be like complaining that your boss noticed you're doing your work incorrectly and informed you of the correct method!
If I was using any incorrect spelling or grammar, I would want the people who know better than me to correct me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machines seems to clear that up a bit. It seems it's also singular. I believe most initialisms are.
VPSs
No apostrophe (it isn't a possesive or a contraction), no e (the word being pluralized is server = servers).
Arguably, Virtual Private Witnesses would be VPWes....
I seem to detect a lot of opinions in your essay about facts versus opinions.
Not to mention your assumption that saying VPSes instead of VPSs would not be "beneficial to the language".
You seem butthurt for some reason. Were any of my facts incorrect?