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My request:
"Typ: Additional subnet /28 (monthly charge)
Grund:
Needed for running Virtusl Machines with Icecast servers, web servers and other online instances such as
DirectAdmin."
The rejection I got:
"Hi Dennis
Unfortunatelly our network department denied the reasons, so we can't provide additional IPs.
Thank you for your understanding.
Kind regards
Michael Hertlein
Product Advice / Sales"
Mmh. That sucks of course... Sorry to read that you had that bad experience with them! Maybe Mr. Hertlein suffered from spontaneous stupidity that day...?
If you do that a few times they permanently close your account, this is legal though seen as bad practice by German market watch (Verbraucherzentrale, cba to google translation).
You should also not show this as some grateful service of Hetzner, they are simply not small enough to ignore the return laws (same as the tax limit for VAT registration and other shit you see on 1 person providers) - That is law, not some kind of service they offer.
That's probably why, if you had asked for a smaller subnet to begin with they would have been more likely to grant it. They have been quite picky for some time on the granting IP's.
if I remember correctly it has not been taken to court yet to clarify if the return laws you are mentioning really apply to the rental of a product like a dedicated server and such.
and don't forget that even those return laws include rules for compensation of real use on a product before the return. so while you may be able to declare the revocation of contract under that given law you probably would have to pay for using it anyways (which you do at least if you install an OS of your choice and/or login and play around a bit).
as said, afaik not decided how a court would deal with it after all, but I'd say it indeed is some kind of accomodating service from hetzner to do it this easy way.
and to close an account which seems to make use of this possibility in a regular way I would never call bad practice. there is no enforcement in making contracts with anybody, everyone doing business is free to choose whom to sell to and when to deny further relationships.
not everything the Verbraucherzentrale calls out has to be neccessarily a true thing ;-)
I once asked them in a ticket about their stance on this. They told me that they absolutely have no problem with a customer trying several different server types and returning them as long as they are under the impression that the customer is indeed searching for the right fit and keeps one (or several) in the end and is not just a cheap annoyance. I find that quite acceptable. Many mail order services in Germany (including Amazon) close your account too if you exaggerate the returning of deliveries.
I worked for a Verbraucherzentrale for some time during my university studies. They are a great institution to have, but sometimes a bit "over the top".
I have just cancelled a bunch of servers (for the first time in ~2 years) that I bought a couple of days back, after running some benchmarks and going through the SMART data of the drives.
I simply cited 'unhappy with hardware' as option during cancellation as the drives were older than 20k hours.
I pay hetzner around 150EUR/Mo - have paid that amount for close to 2 years now, and see no reason for them to terminate my account and lose that small but recurring income, just because I cancelled a bunch of servers that came with extremely worn out drives.
So, I feel it finally boils down to the fact that as long as you don't act like a douche, bend the rules and cause them financial losses, they'll likely just leave you be.
When I first started to use Hetzner, I could not find the right setup, and returned lots of servers. Then I got an e-mail asking why I did return so many servers. At the same time I found what I wanted for the right price, and then they was happy and I was happy, so no more questions. I have two servers with them, and the first one was the server I found over a year ago. The second I have changed a couple of times, but no question asked.
It actually has - not in a dedicated server context but in others that can be compared (eg. car rentals a few times in Austria and very likely also in Germany - our laws are nearly 1:1 the same as the default EU template).
The stance is that you pay for real resources used (in this case power and BW plus a very low percentage of the hardware, you should be able to get out of space payment and cite their AC costs as free to not pay any) at the price the source pays for it (without profit, but including work force costs needed).
I doubt there would be any different judgement for servers as it would run against the EU return policies.
Yea, you know this is not true - In this case yes, but the EU and all member countries (enforcement varies, but you can obtain enforcement if you go a few instances in worst case) have anti-discrimination laws, so it's not like in most US states here (which have near zero, near zero within institutions of faith (oh yea that's so cool, nearly no tax and discriminate on $whatever) or only federal) and that should be mentioned.
We pay more and for longer and the account closed (yes, that is a real case, not just a theory) had similar spending to yours (bit more, but shorter customer).
I don't say they do it always, just note that it is a common practice - likely not only for them - and the return law is not their support invention but a requirement due to size.
contractual freedom is part of the german constitution ( Art. 2 Abs. 1 GG )
while there are obligations to contract for some parts of economy like provider of electricity, gas, water or maybe insurances etc.
hetzner probably does not offer such mandatory things or have a monopolistical market position which makes them obligated to contract for the delivery of servers...
I highly doubt that you are able to enforce such business into a contract of selling you a service like a dedicated server by pointing at discrimination laws. especially if you only make extensive use of their return policies without ever paying something in return ;-)
and to consider closing a customers account or just denying business as discrimination at all probably would need some kind of proof though.
Some what my Server fucked up, tried 2 times to reinstall it with 1 hour in between.
Drop Ticket, 2 mins response, offering to Reinstall my Box, Told them do it, 15 min later fixed.
As is no discrimination on race and sexuality, which is not conflicting as it overrides Art 2 anyway due to being a human right (which Germany signed a bunch of treaties for).
That was not the point, the point was that this laws exist and are valid. You said everyone can do business with everyone or not - Which, simple as is, is not true in some cases.
This constitutional right is also ALREADY being cut as essentially EU and German sanctions against i.e. North Korea conflict on the surface with it, so there are exceptions that delegate power to enforce above it to the legislative.
That is one heck of a deal! Mouth watering...
Edited: wtf after posting the comment I noticed the thread is ages old!
doesn't matter:
https://robot.your-server.de/order/market#569956
https://robot.your-server.de/order/market#568967
or even with 32 GB RAM:
https://robot.your-server.de/order/market#567378
probably want to be quick before they're gone ;-)
The price @Hetzner is really good, and now with their DDoS protection even better.
I pay €97 for two servers today. My main server is a Xeon 1245v2, 32 GB ECC, 2x3TB Enterprise disks. Thats €38. My second server is a i7 2600, 16 GB RAM, and 4x4TB disks.
That server will I let go when the term is out.
The reason, I will shift some of my hosting to Kimsufi. Slower connection, but for €8.99 for a i5 2400 (or 3670S), 16 GB RAM and 2 TB HDD, I think it will work fine.
But I will not leave Hetzner, and will keep my main server there.
just grabbed a new box from serverbidding... i7-3930k , 64 GB RAM , ~40€ (without VAT) - what a lovely beast:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/7928677
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Benchmark Run: Thu Aug 25 2016 15:00:09 - 15:28:27 12 CPUs in system; running 1 parallel copy of tests Dhrystone 2 using register variables 42175899.4 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) Double-Precision Whetstone 4271.6 MWIPS (11.6 s, 7 samples) Execl Throughput 6097.8 lps (30.0 s, 2 samples) File Copy 1024 bufsize 2000 maxblocks 1946986.4 KBps (30.0 s, 2 samples) File Copy 256 bufsize 500 maxblocks 540850.0 KBps (30.0 s, 2 samples) File Copy 4096 bufsize 8000 maxblocks 3568683.8 KBps (30.0 s, 2 samples) Pipe Throughput 3066630.1 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) Pipe-based Context Switching 86282.5 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) Process Creation 14307.5 lps (30.0 s, 2 samples) Shell Scripts (1 concurrent) 14814.4 lpm (60.0 s, 2 samples) Shell Scripts (8 concurrent) 7175.1 lpm (60.0 s, 2 samples) System Call Overhead 4965391.8 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) System Benchmarks Index Values BASELINE RESULT INDEX Dhrystone 2 using register variables 116700.0 42175899.4 3614.0 Double-Precision Whetstone 55.0 4271.6 776.7 Execl Throughput 43.0 6097.8 1418.1 File Copy 1024 bufsize 2000 maxblocks 3960.0 1946986.4 4916.6 File Copy 256 bufsize 500 maxblocks 1655.0 540850.0 3268.0 File Copy 4096 bufsize 8000 maxblocks 5800.0 3568683.8 6152.9 Pipe Throughput 12440.0 3066630.1 2465.1 Pipe-based Context Switching 4000.0 86282.5 215.7 Process Creation 126.0 14307.5 1135.5 Shell Scripts (1 concurrent) 42.4 14814.4 3494.0 Shell Scripts (8 concurrent) 6.0 7175.1 11958.5 System Call Overhead 15000.0 4965391.8 3310.3 ======== System Benchmarks Index Score 2379.0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Benchmark Run: Thu Aug 25 2016 15:28:27 - 15:56:34 12 CPUs in system; running 12 parallel copies of tests Dhrystone 2 using register variables 246708843.1 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) Double-Precision Whetstone 44892.8 MWIPS (9.9 s, 7 samples) Execl Throughput 48130.0 lps (30.0 s, 2 samples) File Copy 1024 bufsize 2000 maxblocks 1627497.4 KBps (30.0 s, 2 samples) File Copy 256 bufsize 500 maxblocks 426019.5 KBps (30.0 s, 2 samples) File Copy 4096 bufsize 8000 maxblocks 4688859.7 KBps (30.0 s, 2 samples) Pipe Throughput 19599818.8 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) Pipe-based Context Switching 3742493.2 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) Process Creation 114194.7 lps (30.0 s, 2 samples) Shell Scripts (1 concurrent) 78449.2 lpm (60.0 s, 2 samples) Shell Scripts (8 concurrent) 10309.6 lpm (60.0 s, 2 samples) System Call Overhead 8654129.5 lps (10.0 s, 7 samples) System Benchmarks Index Values BASELINE RESULT INDEX Dhrystone 2 using register variables 116700.0 246708843.1 21140.4 Double-Precision Whetstone 55.0 44892.8 8162.3 Execl Throughput 43.0 48130.0 11193.0 File Copy 1024 bufsize 2000 maxblocks 3960.0 1627497.4 4109.8 File Copy 256 bufsize 500 maxblocks 1655.0 426019.5 2574.1 File Copy 4096 bufsize 8000 maxblocks 5800.0 4688859.7 8084.2 Pipe Throughput 12440.0 19599818.8 15755.5 Pipe-based Context Switching 4000.0 3742493.2 9356.2 Process Creation 126.0 114194.7 9063.1 Shell Scripts (1 concurrent) 42.4 78449.2 18502.2 Shell Scripts (8 concurrent) 6.0 10309.6 17182.6 System Call Overhead 15000.0 8654129.5 5769.4 ======== System Benchmarks Index Score 9274.02x 3 TB HDDs on this box are around 3 years old as usual for those auction server.
first server I got had one younger disk with some error history in s.m.a.r.t. - simply revoked the order and grabbed another one. easy as that.
network bench, though hetzners network is nothing really new:
I like it :-)
Be careful saying you like Hetzner in this thread....when I did it, I got a 1.6TB DDoS attack on my server. Luckily Hetzner has started with DDoS protection, so my sites was never down.
1.6TB? Per second?
No, but in one hour 1.6TB of BW was used.
1600 GB per hour / 3600 = 0,444444 Gbit/s = ~ 444 MBit/s
Not even complicated to mitigate these days.
Still...not funny to get a DDoS attack just because I write in a thread here.
I just got myself another E3-1245v2 with 32 GB ECC RAM and 2x3 TB HDDs for EUR 30 excl. VAT. Happy, too. :-)
When you guys say it like this, I start thinking the server I had is of the expensive part of the auction....
I got this server below for 52 euros excl. VAT.
E3-1245V2, 32 GB Ram, 2x3 TB Ent.HDD + 2x3 TB HWR ECC INIC
Here is a ServerScope Benchmark from an ESXi VPS I have in this server.
https://serverscope.io/trials/vKD
Is that 4 drives? Nice!
I have a i7 2600 with 4 x 4 TB drives for €42/mo. But letting it go since I really don't need it...(like so much other stuff I get here on LET
)
I tried Centos/KVM (managed by Ovirt) and the NIC kept dropping out so that's probably indeed true, was why I never kept that server in the end. -- Then again this was probably a year or so ago so not even sure they still have those machines (I think it was a first gen i7)
I screwed up something with the new server that made a manual reset necessary. I opened a request for it in their control panel: Took them 9 (!) minutes to tell me that the reset has been carried out. Again, cannot complain about their support...
Yep... It is. And with Raid 10 I get 6TB storage space. You can check the vm benchmark as well.
I needed Lara a few times to install ESXi. Other than that it was all smooth.
And oh... I asked them the price for additional IPv6 and they replied real fast to that as well.
Is one thing I have always noticed about them, they are fairly big but haven't forgotten about growing their support team along the way, no matter the time of day I have always got quick responses from them. Normally from someone who is at the DC and has the power to fix the issue and not a remote help desk.
I got the same box about 2 weeks ago. It is indeed a nice box, but performance wise I don't see much different with the i7 3770 boxes. Next order will be some 4x4TB love cause it's the cheapest storage server host with decent enough cpu (i7 2700/3770)