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online.net - Guaranteed bandwidth server

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Comments

  • DylanDylan Member

    comXyz said: @MarkTurner it's all about definition of term.

    comXyz said: You are not the one who decides what it means. The providers do it. So stop blaming providers about what you don't know.

    That's now how definitions work. Dictionaries define words, not web hosts.

    If Online.net used a more appropriate term this debate would be moot. Their policy is more than fair; it's just very poorly (if not unintentionally deceptively) laid out.

  • @Dylan how much is 1GB? 1024 or 1000 MB?

    If you're not clearly understand about something, you just need to ask support, it helps to save your time and people time not to have these kind of topics.

    I don't remember how many times I need to ask providers here on LET, include @MarkTurner about how much bandwidth I can use, does it count both In/Out bandwidth, or the inbound bandwidth is free.

  • Hello !

    I think there is some confusion, let me clear that :

    You can use the bandwidth indicated on our website as "guaranteed".
    We have two kind, the standard one and the premium one (this is only the way we manage uplink on racks on our DC)

    All servers are delivered on gigabitethernet port and we don't shape on any kind your trafic on your subscribed "guaranteed" bandwidth.

    In other words : In order to give you the best experience possible, we don't shape your trafic to the subscribed plan (like most of hosting companies), and you can burst for very long time if you want at more than "guaranteed". If you use more than our guaranteed bandwidth, in constant usage, you have to subscribe to our "Patate" option or we will configure shapping on your server to limit your bandwidth to the guaranteed value.
    This is a very very fair way to give maximum bandwidth to everyone :)

    Concerning the "unmetered", this is the TRAFIC volume (How many GB/month you receive and send, we don't mind of this, this is completely unlimited), not the bandwidth speed usage.

    Arnaud

  • @comXyz - I know many of the shoddy DSL advertising. We have the same thing here in the UK, but at least they cover their arse with fair-use in the small print or comments that you may or may not get the full performance.

    But in this case, this was poor advertising. If you advertise a gigabit port and say guaranteed performance is 100Mbps, then you should reasonably expect 100Mbps at all times. That doesn't mean 100Mbps to anywhere in the universe that means that 100Mbps path to the public Internet is available.

    As there was no limitation specified or any caveat of fair use, or max XMbps 95th %ile etc then they have no grounds to ask a customer to upgrade their bandwidth.

    If they are now finding that they have choked their network up with their €2 servers then they have one of two options:

    1. Make a change of service announcement, apply the notice period 30 days.
    2. Limit the traffic beyond 100Mbps because that is all they guarantee.

    However they cannot suddenly say you are using too much bandwidth, there was no limitation specified and no statement of fair-use.

    Thanked by 2comXyz korobkov
  • abermingham said: Concerning the "unmetered", this is the TRAFIC volume

    Ok so traffic volume is unlimited as you say, to move traffic you consume bandwidth which is measured in bps/Kbps/Mbps/Gbps/Tbps.

    You have advertised a product with a gigabit port and 100Mbps guaranteed, so you have NO grounds to ask a customer to pay more money for bandwidth if they manage to use more than guaranteed bandwidth. The only recourse you have against these customers is to traffic shape them.

    The problem here is you have misadvertised your product. You have not specified an upper limit to the bandwidth utilisation, effectively you have offered an unlimited (or you have said - unmetered) solution. Thats going to come and bite you painfully when customers use what they have contracted you to provide.

    State a limit on your services, if you are offering 100Mbps then state its 100Mbps 95th percentile, so if a customer goes over that amount of traffic in a sustained way then they can be penalised for it. But this 'guaranteed' nonsense is just creating issues in the market.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • @MarkTurner there was no guaranteed performance, so they can limit you at 10Mbs anytime they want, right?

  • coolicecoolice Member
    edited April 2015

    @comXyz said:
    r0t3n what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say they offered no guaranteed bandwidth, so their support can't say you have 100 Mbps guaranteed bandwidth right?

    If you open support ticket in the first place, their support will tell you 100 Mbps is the minimum guaranteed bandwidth for their servers.

    And you're trying to say because you don't know, and the offer doesn't have guaranteed bandwidth, you can use as much bandwidth as you want right?

    He tried to victimize itself, as scammed from the big company, and eventually put pressure bashing the company to be allowed to continue to do what he do and show that as a fight for rights... That's the usual story at WHT than smaller companies start with what I wrote in my first post for getting a decent provider, not buying cheap etc,

    @r0t3n said:

    You continue to act as a victim of great scam ... how rm_ says not able to push 40TB for 2 euro

    Facts for me is that you do not click to pay for "Guaranteed bandwidth maximum available" so you should not understand the rules in your favor if there is such option to be purchased... From my you get decent offer, network ports is not oversold, and you should be happy with the service for that price... if you unhappy with the service you should quit and go for other provider...

    @r0t3n said:

    Again, If you have nothing helpful to say, except personal attacks, I ask you to please not comment any further. Atleast MarkTurner knows how it should be, and he's commenting from a providers perspective...

    As far as I understand what Mark Turner says to apply hard limit which may work for users like you which want constant max or will open bashing thread... but this will limit providers like me which not push to it's guaranteed bandwidth during the normal daily usage and we just want to push backups as fast as possible...

    Another fact is that Online inform you and give you options limit your traffic not appling some rule that to protect other customers they hard limit you

    Thanked by 2comXyz rm_
  • @comXyz - if there was no guaranteed performance, then they don't have to offer you 1bps. BUT conversely they didn't specify a limit.

    You know these 'Eat all you want' buffets, so you go in there and you start eating, and because you are like Shaggy out of Scooby Doo, you just eat half the buffet. Then the manager comes over and says, if you want to eat more then pay more. The legal fact is, it didn't specify a limit so if you can put away that much food then its yours.

    Its the same here, no limit = eat all your want.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • MarkTurner said: You have advertised a product with a gigabit port and 100Mbps guaranteed

    Actually they didn't. They advertised product with a gigabit port and unmetered traffic. We didn't know anything about 100Mbps guaranteed until this thread. That's done retroactively.

    Offer:

    Connectivity    1 Gbit/s
    Internal bandwidth  1 Gbit/s   
    Traffic     Unmetered
  • abermingham said: If you use more than our guaranteed bandwidth, in constant usage, you have to subscribe to our "Patate" option or we will configure shapping on your server to limit your bandwidth to the guaranteed value. This is a very very fair way to give maximum bandwidth to everyone :)

    This is indeed a very fair way to handle the network load and guarantee great performance to everyone, but why not just write exactly this somewhere on your page? And why not rename the "bandwidth guaranteed" to "average allowed bandwidth"?

    abermingham said: Concerning the "unmetered", this is the TRAFIC volume (How many GB/month you receive and send, we don't mind of this, this is completely unlimited)

    As long as you stay below the amont, that your "bandwidth guaranteed". This is also fine, but as well very poorly documented.

    Thanked by 2deadbeef korobkov
  • @MarkTurner but if it's not "Eat all you want" buffet, then you know how people look at you ;). Even if the manager is so nice, he gave you 2 options: stop eating or pay more money, you choose to eat more and more without paying, then it's problem.

    Anyway I got what you mean, hopefully Online.net will have better document.

  • NekkiNekki Member
    edited April 2015

    So, the actual details of how network usage is dealt with was poorly described and needs adding to the Online.net T&C'S - I think we all agree on that.

    The Kidichere offer wasn't detailed enough, but had it have been, we'd still all have bought it anyway, right?

    The thread has been valuable in bringing this information and Online.net's traffic shaping policies to light. Those who are angry can cancel, those who think it's fair can keep their servers.

  • chrisp said: And why not rename the "bandwidth guaranteed"

    Exactly right - its about wording.

    100Mbps 95th Percentile

    Would allow customers to burst as needed but sustained would be caught and legitimately can be charged.

    Spirit said: Actually they didn't. They advertised product with a gigabit port and unmetered traffic

    Thats even more grave then!

    Thanked by 2vimalware korobkov
  • As we know how it works now, can someone from Online (@bene_online or @abermingham) explain how we find out about the current guaranteed maximum average bandwidth in our console? When I look up my service level I find this:

    This is for a Dedibox Limited 1115, which was advertised with 200 or 300 Mbit guaranteed bandwidth (can't remember, so I wanted to look it up). Now I wonder where I could normally see this value?

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • MarkTurner said: chrisp said: And why not rename the "bandwidth guaranteed"

    Exactly right - its about wording.

    100Mbps 95th Percentile

    Would allow customers to burst as needed but sustained would be caught and legitimately can be charged.

    Next time, i will shape you on guaranteed bandwidth by default (like all hosting companies), i will also leave your server saturated at 100Mbit/sec all the day and we won't try to propose you solution after many months of 2 or 3 times more usage than guaranteed

    You are right, this is the best solution :) You are very very sad.

  • abermingham said: Next time, i will shape you on guaranteed bandwidth by default (like all hosting companies),

    But that is actually more fair. If a customer knows what he/she is getting and they max it out, then its down to them to say I want more and here's some money.

    You can't have services advertised without limits then suddenly say actually you're using too much, pay more.

    Limits need to be stated for clarity for both sides sake.

    As for leaving 'your server saturated at 100Mbit/sec all the day', thats my business if I am using 100Mbps on 100Mbps CIR then its down to me to manage it. Obviously its another thing if you have got your contentions wrong and putting 20-30 servers with 100Mbps CIR on a single gigabit uplink ;)

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • DylanDylan Member
    edited April 2015

    @abermingham said:

    we won't try to propose you solution after many months of 2 or 3 times more usage than guaranteed

    I was proposed the same solution yesterday after about two weeks of 2 times more usage than guaranteed (using ~400 mbps on a 200 mbps guarantee server). But I limited my bandwidth without complaining because I don't think your policy is unfair. 200 mbps for €20 is a great deal.

    My only complaint is that there was no way for me to know that I should have been limiting my bandwidth until support told me I was using too much. I would have gladly limited myself to 200 mbps to begin with if I had known I should.

    Does that make sense? I don't have any problem with the policy; I just wish you explained it somewhere on your site.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • J1021J1021 Member

    This is what I have.

  • comXyzcomXyz Member
    edited April 2015

    @MarkTurner said: if there was no guaranteed performance, then they don't have to offer you 1bps

    In fact the offered 1Gbps, not 1bps, and there was no guaranteed performance.

  • NomadNomad Member

    They never claim that we have 1gbit dedicated Internet either. They way I see it is that I can have upto 1Gbps burstable Internet whereas I'm expected to use 200/300 Mbps usually.

    Also, unmetered doesn't mean unlimited. To me, it means I can use 1 or 10tb but that doesn't mean I can use the whole 1Gbit port constantly...

  • coolicecoolice Member
    edited April 2015

    @MarkTurner said:

    But that is actually more fair. If a customer knows what he/she is getting and they max it out, then its down to them to say I want more and here's some money.

    You can't have services advertised without limits then suddenly say actually you're using too much, pay more.

    Limits need to be stated for clarity for both sides sake.

    Sorry to not respond on previous i do not ignore you...

    I agree for the more explanations... but not agree for hard limiting, I prefer to be told to self limit myself and to have option to remove the limits for short burst when I need them or to pay get what i can over the than limits just to be applied from provider...

    Disclaimer I'm NOT mention or pointing any one from here: Hard limits is for retarded customers which do not understand a human word... When you told them several and they do nothing to comply...

  • UrDNUrDN Member

    @kcaj said:
    This is what I have.

    Hum, there's nothing in "Guaranteed Bandwidth"?

  • MarkTurner said: Its the same here, no limit = eat all your want.

    @MarkTurner you have some comments only link to the order page without any bandwidth limit, does it mean I can get 1 Gbps unlimited from you?

  • r0t3nr0t3n Member
    edited April 2015

    Thank you everyone for your time and comments.

    @abermingham can you please update your product pages and TOS to reflect these limits and policies. Whilst I do see this as a fair policy, this policy is not stated anywhere on your site, product description or TOS, so if anything good is to come out of this it would be you updating your TOS and product descriptions to detail your traffic management policies.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • I believe there is such of a 'FAIR USAGE' which you don't seem to be adhearing to.To be honest on a 2 euro box, I can see why they're telling you to stop/calm down because quite frankly I have no doubt it's effecting services of people paying much more and quite frankly it'd be easier to cut that machine off. If you split it over 3 Machines how are you using 300Mbps? If anything you'd be using 100Mbps / 3. More like 33Mbps approx per machine?

    I see it like this, imagine having a house party every-day next to your neighbour with music blazing etc every single day for 24hours. I don't think they'd be impressed and nor would you if they did it to you.

  • comXyz said: you have some comments only link to the order page without any bandwidth limit, does it mean I can get 1 Gbps unlimited from you?

    ALL of Delimiter's offers state clearly the inclusive bandwidth eg 20TB on GE port. If you want an unmetered service then you can get that but that is truly unlimited. Not just unlimited until you use too much and then we ask you to pay more.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • MikePTMikePT Moderator, Patron Provider
    edited April 2015

    @abermingham said:
    Hello !

    I think there is some confusion, let me clear that :

    You can use the bandwidth indicated on our website as "guaranteed".
    We have two kind, the standard one and the premium one (this is only the way we manage uplink on racks on our DC)

    All servers are delivered on gigabitethernet port and we don't shape on any kind your trafic on your subscribed "guaranteed" bandwidth.

    In other words : In order to give you the best experience possible, we don't shape your trafic to the subscribed plan (like most of hosting companies), and you can burst for very long time if you want at more than "guaranteed". If you use more than our guaranteed bandwidth, in constant usage, you have to subscribe to our "Patate" option or we will configure shapping on your server to limit your bandwidth to the guaranteed value.
    This is a very very fair way to give maximum bandwidth to everyone :)

    Concerning the "unmetered", this is the TRAFIC volume (How many GB/month you receive and send, we don't mind of this, this is completely unlimited), not the bandwidth speed usage.

    Arnaud

    Wow, great to see the CEO finally answering these questions. Thanks!
    You should indeed update the TOS/console so people can know their bandwidth limit, though. :)

  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    Dylan said: I was proposed the same solution yesterday after about two weeks of 2 times more usage than guaranteed (using ~400 mbps on a 200 mbps guarantee server). But I limited my bandwidth without complaining because I don't think your policy is unfair. 200 mbps for €20 is a great deal.

    Just for the record, I was not complaining about this policy, I was asking for peoples opinions. I love the services from online.net, and will continue to enjoy their services, with and without limits.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    HyperSpeed said: If you split it over 3 Machines how are you using 300Mbps? If anything you'd be using 100Mbps / 3. More like 33Mbps approx per machine?

    Its 100mbps per machine, so 300mbps total throughput via 3 machines.

  • @MarkTurner not all bro. Except when you comments don't count as legit offers. I had to search around to see how much bandwidth you allow.

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