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online.net - Guaranteed bandwidth server

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Comments

  • UrDN said: I think there's a lack of documentation, online.net should be more transparent and tell that going over the "guaranteed bandwidth" is fair-use and that exceeding it too often would require to pay for the bandwidth option.

    This. We could have prevented this thread if only they would just state things clearly.

    comXyz said: Wrong. They guaranteed to give you 100Mbps average each month with that server on the burstable 1Gbps port.

    Where did you read the word average? I think the problem here is, that it's missing

    Nekki said: I guess it's like being a kid; Online.net are the parents who say you have to be in by 8, but if you come in at 5 past they don't mind. They only get annoyed and strict about it when you start staying out until 10 every night.

    I see your point, but somehow I disagree. I would do it the same with a kid, but I expect clear rules for a server no matter which price. So if they say it is an average number to match (100mbit) then it's fine. You know you can burst, but you have to be nice on average. But if they don't set a limit I would expect to use the bandwidth as r0t3n did.

    What makes me wonder is, that even for the new "Limited 1115" there is no information on guranteed bandwidth in the account when you look at your server options. But I am 100% sure there was some guaranteed number (200 or 300 it was).

    Also let's not talk about the price and what's reasonable for it. That makes no sense. Let's say I offer a VPS for 6$/y with a gbit port and say it's unlimited, but shared. Then I shouldn't have a problem with people pushing 10tb+ or even 50tb on that dirt cheap offer. I shouldn't, because I didn't set a limit. I should have offered it with 1tb instead and write "fair share overusage", because that's honest and it's what I expect my clients to do.

    I'd be interested in the general understanding of that guranteed bandwidth term for Online.net. Let's just take http://www.online.net/en/dedicated-server/dedibox-classic as an example. So @bene_online can I buy that one and use 400Mbit on average? And if I can't, why not? Would you be so kind and set this somewhere.

    Disclaimer: I am not an asshole abusing unlimited services, I just hate that "set your expectations based on price" mindset. If you offer 24x7 10 min first reaction time on a 12$/y vps I want a stupid "we're on it message" at 3am in the morning, because you promised it. And then people open a thread on LET saying "it took 4 hours, that providers is bad" and everyone is yelling "come ooon, what did you expect?". That doesn't matter at all. And finally I totally understand that step from Online, I am not dumb and understand, that bandwidth costs money and that 2€ is not much, but even at that price I expect clear limits.

    Thanked by 2deadbeef korobkov
  • DylanDylan Member
    edited April 2015

    MarkTurner said: I would say expect to be able to use upto 200Mbps then expect traffic shaping to take effect, but if you managed to get more out of it then the wind was in the right direction. But they can't charge you for it. Its unmetered.

    I would say expect to be able to use upto 200Mbps then expect traffic shaping to take effect, but if you managed to get more out of it then the wind was in the right direction. But they can't charge you for it. Its unmetered.

    Yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect too. Bottom line is that they're using the wrong word here -- they should be saying something like "allowed" instead of "guaranteed".

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • @chrisp The link you posted is for the Classic 2015. It has a guaranteed bandwidth of 300 Mbit/s and you can use it.

  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    Dylan said: I would say expect to be able to use upto 200Mbps then expect traffic shaping to take effect, but if you managed to get more out of it then the wind was in the right direction. But they can't charge you for it. Its unmetered.

    If only they worded it like the old KS offers, 10TB on 100mbps port then limited to 10mbps thereafter, but guaranteed bandwidth is not detailed in such a way, depending on how you may interpret it. Then throw unmetered into the mix, it makes it even more confusing, one moment your saying your not metering my bandwidth, the next you are and you will traffic shape me over 100mbps, atleas the old KS offers made this clear and simple.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • chrispchrisp Member
    edited April 2015

    @bene_online said:
    chrisp The link you posted is for the Classic 2015. It has a guaranteed bandwidth of 300 Mbit/s and you can use it.

    By saying "guaranteed bandwidth" what you actually mean is "average allowed bandwidth"? I mean to be very clear can I have 500Mbit/s on monthly average with the Dedibox Classic 2015 if the port allows it or not?

    And in addition what exactly happens?

    Do you limit the port to 300?

    Do you automatically slow down the port speed during the month to make me match 300Mbit/s?

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • Why do they even care and bother to annoy a costumer because of 40 Tb spent on a Gbps port that is supposed to be unmetered?

    Isnt bandwidth virtually free? What's the extra cost for them?

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited April 2015

    kcaj said: I assume he's talking about the Kidechire offer. There has never been advertised a guaranteed throughput for those servers, though the support team refer to it when asking customers to reduce bandwidth usage.

    It is true that the kidechire offer did not mention the guaranteed bandwidth. But the fact that they retroactively now apply 100 Mbit guaranteed rule to it, is entirely fair and reasonable, even somewhat of a gesture of good will, considering the 3x more expensive regular 6 EUR offer has not much more, i.e. 200 now, and had 150 back when kidechire was available.

    Thread summary: LET users complain about not being allowed to burn 40 TB for 2 EUR.

    Thanked by 2coolice netomx
  • kcaj said: Yes, there is a field that reads "Internet Guaranteed" but it had something like two dashes through it. I have a copy of the offer but I'm away from my laptop at the moment, I'll post it up later if somebody hasn't beat me to it.

    So nothing is guaranteed, its best effort with an unspecified contention.

    But if it said unmetered, then they can't complain about usage, they can just slap a traffic shape/rate limit on the port and control the traffic usage.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • rm_ said: Thread summary: LET users complain about not being allowed to burn 40 TB for 2 EUR.

    Thread summary is rather people have to discuss stupid things because providers use confusing marketing terms.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • r0t3nr0t3n Member
    edited April 2015

    rm_ said: It is true that the kidechire offer did not mention the guaranteed bandwidth. But the fact that they retroactively now apply 100 Mbit guaranteed rule to it, is entirely fair and reasonable, considering the regular 6 EUR offer has 200 now, and had 150 back when kidechire was available.

    If it was sold with no guaranteed bandwidth, and now enforce a 100mbps guaranteed bandwidth rule without notifying me, I never legally signed up to the 100mbps guaranteed bandwidth clause, surely they've broken the contract?

    This is not about me burning traffic for 2 EUR, this is more about principles, they can not go around changing contracts without giving prior notice...

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • rm_rm_ Member

    r0t3n said: this is more about principles, they can not go around changing contracts without giving prior notice...

    If you consider they did, then you should cancel your kidechire immediately out of rage and disgust.

    MarkTurner said: But if it said unmetered, then they can't complain about usage, they can just slap a traffic shape/rate limit on the port and control the traffic usage.

    And instead they are trying to be reasonable and ask you nicely to "slap the traffic shaping/limit" on your side, so that you can still use full Gbit when you need it, just not all the damn time.

  • SpiritSpirit Member
    edited April 2015

    rm_ said: It is true that the kidechire offer did not mention the guaranteed bandwidth. But the fact that they retroactively now apply 100 Mbit guaranteed rule to it, is entirely fair

    No it's not. Especially for those without psychic skills or crystal ball. For price that's not deal breaker of course, but also not what was advertised.
    It does not affect me, so don't take this as complain, but for a moment forget about price and think what was advertised and you paid it.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    @rm as stated above, I said I will limit my bandwidth. So you're basically saying I should cancel my service because they changed their terms without notifying me, so now the blame is on me the client and not the provider for selling misleading services?

    I also see nothing in the TOS which states they can traffic shape me. I'm happy to comply with them for now, but I would prefer they update their site and TOS to reflect this because technically they are asking me to do something which aint even stated in there TOS.

    Thanked by 2deadbeef korobkov
  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited April 2015

    Spirit said: not what was advertised.

    Let's assume they'd adhere to "what was advertised". Okay, up to 1 Gbit/sec with no guarantees whatsoever! Great, right?... Except that during peak hours at some point you would start getting nowhere near 1Gbit. It would slow down to 10-20 Mbit and below, not due to any artificial limit or metering, just out of pure contention... and add to that ping spikes and packet loss.

    But @Spirit and @r0t3n must be totally happy, because that's exactly "what they bought".

    Nah not for me, I am glad that they (even if implicitly) decided to apply the 100 Mbit rule now and start kicking out 24x7 b/w users with tickets like in the OP, as this results in us casual users getting more bandwidth and higher sustained throughput when we need it. Which is again, just not all the damn time.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • SpiritSpirit Member
    edited April 2015

    In case someone's curious, that was advertised:

    Network
    Connectivity    1 Gbit/s
    Internal bandwidth  1 Gbit/s
    Internet bandwidth guaranteed   
    Traffic     Unmetered
    IPv4 adresses   1 adresse IPv4
    IPv6 adresses   bloc /48
    Arbor Networks anti-DDOS protection     

    @rm_ I still don't own crystal ball. But I may laught at you if they follow your logic and next month "introduce" you (through bw overages warning mail) 10Mbit rule.

    Thanked by 1deadbeef
  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    @rm if they can not sustain their offers, thats not my fault, thats their fault. They are a big company, there is no excuse for them to not have a proper TOS and detail their bandwidth policy transparently.

    So you're trying to put the blame upon me, and not the big company with big pockets whom don't have a proper TOS...

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • coolicecoolice Member
    edited April 2015

    @chrisp

    It is not confusing if you read the Network tab on the offers

    In order to meet your current and future needs, each server is delivered with a high bandwidth capacity—from 200Mbit/sec to 750Mbit/sec—and with unlimited volume.

    Choose our PATATE option to benefit from the greatest possible throughput on your server for only €79/month.

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited April 2015

    Spirit said: But I may laught at you if they follow your logic and next month "introduce" you (through bw overages warning mail) 10Mbit rule.

    In my view they are not obligated to warn users when they improve the service terms, and raising the guaranteed bandwidth from "none" to "100 Mbit" is certainly an improvement no matter how you look at it.

    r0t3n said: They are a big company, there is no excuse for them to not have a proper TOS and detail their bandwidth policy transparently.

    That part might be correct, but you should just stop whining already anyway.

  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    rm_ said: That part might be correct, but you should just stop whining already anyway.

    In all kindness, I dont tell you what to do, so you dont tell me what to do. If you have nothing helpful to say, I kindly ask you to please keep your personal attacks to yourself.

    This is in the interest of a lot of people, big companies can not go around asking their users to do things which ain't stated in their TOS. Out of good will, I will comply with them for now, but I will be asking their legal team to update their TOS and website to reflect this.

    Thanked by 2deadbeef korobkov
  • comXyzcomXyz Member
    edited April 2015

    Well,

    For people still confuse about what they can get from the offer, please go to the offer page again,

    https://console.online.net/en/order/server_limited

    then click to order an server, then look at the service level. Only the most expensive service level has these features:

    Quota of IP failover
    +30
    Guaranteed bandwidth maximum available 
    

    Other service levels don't have guaranteed bandwidth. If you didn't understand what is it, you should open support ticket before ordering. If you still don't understand what is it, open a support ticket to ask their support now.

  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    comXyz said: Other service levels don't have guaranteed bandwidth

    So I have support telling me I have 100mbps guaranteed bandwidth, and their basic support level saying I have no guaranteed bandwidth, and the offer also stated It had no guaranteed bandwidth, so we are back to square one. They basically offered a dedicated server for 2EUR/month with a 1gbps port and unmetered traffic with no guaranteed throughput, so there is nothing to say my 40TB/month bandwidth usage is "above" or "beyond" any limit as there never was one...?

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • @r0t3n what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say they offered no guaranteed bandwidth, so their support can't say you have 100 Mbps guaranteed bandwidth right?

    If you open support ticket in the first place, their support will tell you 100 Mbps is the minimum guaranteed bandwidth for their servers.

    And you're trying to say because you don't know, and the offer doesn't have guaranteed bandwidth, you can use as much bandwidth as you want right?

  • coolicecoolice Member
    edited April 2015

    @MarkTurner said:
    But if it said unmetered, then they can't complain about usage, they can just slap a traffic shape/rate limit on the port and control the traffic usage.

    Think it is better how it is for online customers that use that servers for business

    Customer can have what is guaranteed but when it is needed you can burst over... I use up to 80Mbps on peak hours (compressed webpages traffic) for normal shared hosting but I'm bursting backups as fast as possible with upto 394 Mbps in the middle of the night and think I can go faster :) it's the limit of Hetzner backup server what i hit.... that's perfect for me

    Hard limits are maybe more suitable for hosts which most customers want to push constantly to the max...

    They do not ask OP for more money they ask to slow it's server to get in compliance with guaranteed bandwidth or to pay for max usage option...

    and for those which take it to the little letters of the TOS... it is clearly written on the network page and on order page (how @comXyz posted) that you can choose more expensive option which gives you: Guaranteed bandwidth maximum available SO it is written but they do not read it not in the TOS but think it is for sure valid on order page ...

  • @coolice - there is a big difference between 'guaranteed bandwidth' and 'fair usage'

    Guaranteed states a minimum level that can be expected, it does not mean a maximum. If I were selling OpenVZ VPS and I said 16GB RAM, 4GB guaranteed. Then the expectation is that 4GB RAM is always available to me, by definition the service provider 'guarantees' 4GB is available. Buy beyond that 4GB, its best efforts, don't expect there to be more and don't be disappointed if there isn't.

    Consequentially if I sell a product advertising 16GB RAM and no guaranteed RAM, then I cannot be assured of any amount of RAM being available. But lets say I got lucky and were able to use 8GB RAM then well done me :) No-one can have an issue with my usage because you have not specified an upper boundary.

    You have to be clear on these things - if you are selling a gigabit port with a 100Mbps guaranteed bandwidth, you are saying 100Mbps is yours 24x7, the service provider guarantees is. Don't expect more than than 100Mbps because it may or may not be available.

    But because there is no upper limit specified like you could say 100Mbps guaranteed but no more than 150Mbps 95th %ile then the service provider has created an upper and lower limit.

    Its like us, we offer a 100Mbps and gigabit unlimited port option. Thats unlimited as in unlimited. Not unlimited until we want to clamp the bandwidth.

    In this instance, Online should state an upper limit or should apply traffic shaping/rate limiting beyond a certain level. This would allow for bursting but not sustained traffic.

  • r0t3nr0t3n Member
    edited April 2015

    coolice said: and for those which take it to the little letters of the TOS

    Sooo... you're basically saying I should not follow TOS's anymore? The whole point of a TOS is so there is a legal agreement between client and provider, with agreed policies. Please tell me where it states in their TOS that I can not exceed my 'guaranteed bandwidth' which was never apart of the server i brought...

    comXyz said: If you open support ticket in the first place, their support will tell you 100 Mbps is the minimum guaranteed bandwidth for their servers.

    I should not need to open a ticket to find this out, it should be clearly stated on the order page. At the time it showed no guaranteed bandwidth, meaning there was no guaranteed bandwidth, no defined limit, again stop putting the blame on me the client, this is the providers misleading product description and policies.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • @MarkTurner it's all about definition of term. And if customers are not sure about what it means, they should ask support.

    If you sell a car, and guarantee you can use the car to drive 16 people, doesn't mean there are always 16 people in the car.

    If you let people rent a room, and guarantee there is enough space for 4 people, doesn't mean there are always 4 people live in the room.

    I'm using internet connection from an ISP, they have 8Mbps guaranteed, and I get around 800kbs connection or below.

    And I know some people are selling openVZ, when they say 4GB RAM guaranteed, the maximum RAM you can get whenever you need is 4GB.

  • @r0t3n said:

    You are not the one who decides what it means. The providers do it. So stop blaming providers about what you don't know.

  • r0t3nr0t3n Member

    comXyz said: You are not the one who decides what it means. The providers do it. So stop blaming providers about what you don't know.

    The provider has not detailed what it means, and its got to be detailed in the TOS so both parties agree to the definition, of which it is not. I had no need for a definition at the time as it was never apart of the product which I brought...

    Again, If you have nothing helpful to say, except personal attacks, I ask you to please not comment any further. Atleast @MarkTurner knows how it should be, and he's commenting from a providers perspective...

    Thanked by 2deadbeef korobkov
  • SpartanHostSpartanHost Member, Host Rep
    edited April 2015

    From my perspective as well, I agree completely with @MarkTurner on his explanation and interpretation of it.

    Thanked by 1korobkov
  • @r0t3n Well, just let people that agree with you comment, is that what you want?

    Thanked by 1rm_
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