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I am having a dispute with Advinservers. - Page 3
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I am having a dispute with Advinservers.

1356

Comments

  • safakbsafakb Member

    @Tion said:
    When I rent a server from Germany, I expect the IP provided to be geolocated to Germany.

    As a customer, I thought so too, but I see that the providers in this regard find me unfair.

  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 26

    @Jaxx said:
    The expectation of the IP to match the country in which the user ordered service in, I believe, is your average customer. To that extent, it should be noted (either in the T&C, SLA, or a checkbox below the agreement box) that there is a possibility that the IP you are automatically assigned may not resolve to the same country in which the services are being reflected as being located at. If the host is capable of adjusting this, a note on how to achieve this (chat, ticket, pre-purchase/post) should be available. In my mind, the best way to ensure a smooth transaction and make it easiest to integrate, would be to have an agreement checkbox with a simple disclaimer and instructions modal link next to it.

    I mean, it would be the same with every single hosting provider. Big names in the space like Hetzner, OVHCloud, Comcast, pretty much every ISP in the world will usually have some IP addresses that contain inaccurate geolocation information. None of them have a disclaimer on their website, but it is something we can consider.

  • @Advin said:

    @Jaxx said:
    The expectation of the IP to match the country in which the user ordered service in, I believe, is your average customer. To that extent, it should be noted (either in the T&C, SLA, or a checkbox below the agreement box) that there is a possibility that the IP you are automatically assigned may not resolve to the same country in which the services are being reflected as being located at. If the host is capable of adjusting this, a note on how to achieve this (chat, ticket, pre-purchase/post) should be available. In my mind, the best way to ensure a smooth transaction and make it easiest to integrate, would be to have an agreement checkbox with a simple disclaimer and instructions modal link next to it.

    I mean, it would be the same with every single hosting provider. Big names in the space like Hetzner, OVHCloud, Comcast, pretty much every ISP in the world will usually have some IP addresses that contain inaccurate geolocation information. None of them have a disclaimer on their website, but it is something we can consider.

    in the vast majority of cases, the geoip assignment works. this unfortunate individual case should not be taken as an indication of a fundamental and general problem.

  • JaxxJaxx Member
    edited May 26

    @Advin said:
    I mean, it would be the same with every single hosting provider. Big names in the space like Hetzner, OVHCloud, Comcast, pretty much every ISP in the world will usually have IP addresses that contain inaccurate geolocation information. None of them have a disclaimer on their website, but it is something we can consider.

    I completely get that and I don't disagree that it shouldn't be necessary to have to "agree" to it through a dedicated checkbox. My thought is that by ensuring the language is in your T&C or SLA, which even a novice would typically check when they're dealing with transactions of this magnitude, it would do well to cover a host in the event of this issue arising in the future.

  • JohnGragJohnGrag Member

    I think @Advin, should refund full prices to the client

    and every provider should put ip looking glass and ip location in offers

    @AlbaHost also offers servers on many locations but he clearly state ip is ALbanian one

    Regards

    Thanked by 1AlbaHost
  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 26

    @hyperblast said:

    @Advin said:

    @Jaxx said:

    in the vast majority of cases, the geoip assignment works. this unfortunate individual case should not be taken as an indication of a fundamental and general problem.

    Yes, but I'm saying that there's always a chance that an IP address won't geolocate properly no matter the ISP, especially with recent IPv4 subnets. It is a general problem that can (unfortunately) sometimes occur. Maxmind has had our geofeed for a few years now, but they still have not geolocated some subnets properly.

    Most of them are okay, but it usually happens with our Nuremberg location because it's easy for databases to get confused between Nuremberg and other close European countries. Almost every database except Maxmind and a few others that rely on it geolocate it properly.

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 26

    @JohnGrag said:
    I think @Advin, should refund full prices to the client

    and every provider should put ip looking glass and ip location in offers

    @AlbaHost also offers servers on many locations but he clearly state ip is ALbanian one

    Regards

    I believe that the client was provided with a test IP address before order. We did refund close to the full amount, but it was a custom server as mentioned, so some small fees were deducted (which we both agreed on).

  • zGatozGato Member
    edited May 26

    @FatGrizzly said:
    during the chat,

    Test ip was mentioned.

    Looks like your issue buddy.

    As per https://check-host.net/ip-info?host=212.193.3.6 it looks to be NL since the first of the month, and could be even earlier.

  • jrheilandjrheiland Member

    I've always had good experiences with Advin and respect him as a provider. However, especially for smaller providers, if you say your server is in a certain location.. Its typically assumed that the IP addresses are from that region too.

    While it should have been agreed, I get his dilemma.

    While companies in the US such as Comcast, Windstream, and ATT have incorrect GEOIP setups, they are typically at least in the same country with the same laws overall. This is a bit of a different situation as privacy/network laws are vastly different in Germany and The Netherlands.

    This is really something that should be correct or explicitly stated if you're offering IPs from a different country. If I recall previously, a lot of Advin services are proxied via tunnels in The Netherlands anyway, which if this wasn't explicitly stated or is happening here... its technically false advertising.

  • zGatozGato Member

    @Advin said:

    @safakb said:
    @Advin He understood and helped me anyway, thank you.
    The main problem here may be that I am uninformed, but I could not guess that I would get an ip address from a different location while buying a server in Germany. So service providers may look at it from their side and see it as normal, but this is not the case on the user side. As a user, you expect what is written.

    Most IP databases just try to guess where IP addresses are located. Sometimes those guesses can be inaccurate. They don’t really know where it’s actually located.

    I only know of ipinfo.io
    and this is what it currently shows

  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 26

    @jrheiland said:
    I've always had good experiences with Advin and respect him as a provider. However, especially for smaller providers, if you say your server is in a certain location.. Its typically assumed that the IP addresses are from that region too.

    While it should have been agreed, I get his dilemma.

    While companies in the US such as Comcast, Windstream, and ATT have incorrect GEOIP setups, they are typically at least in the same country with the same laws overall. This is a bit of a different situation as privacy/network laws are vastly different in Germany and The Netherlands.

    This is really something that should be correct or explicitly stated if you're offering IPs from a different country. If I recall previously, a lot of Advin services are proxied via tunnels in The Netherlands anyway, which if this wasn't explicitly stated or is happening here... its technically false advertising.

    All services are located in Nuremberg, Germany with our own hardware and switches. There is no tunneling or proxying going on. We are not intentionally offering IP addresses from a different country, and a lot of IP databases do geolocate it correctly to Nuremberg.

    For example: https://check-host.net/ip-info?host=212.193.3.6

    Thanked by 2Xrmaddness jrheiland
  • AlbaHostAlbaHost Member, Host Rep

    @Advin said:

    @JohnGrag said:
    I think @Advin, should refund full prices to the client

    and every provider should put ip looking glass and ip location in offers

    @AlbaHost also offers servers on many locations but he clearly state ip is ALbanian one

    Regards

    I believe that the client was provided with a test IP address before order. We did refund close to the full amount, but it was a custom server as mentioned, so some small fees were deducted (which we both agreed on).

    I believe maxmind update their database every Friday if i am not mistaken, just submit the IP/subnet correction and it will be updated. We had recently some of our IPs within the same subnet half geolocated in Albania, and half in Nepal... After submitting IP correction they stated that they will update with the correction on Friday.

  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 26

    @zGato said:

    @Advin said:

    @safakb said:
    @Advin He understood and helped me anyway, thank you.
    The main problem here may be that I am uninformed, but I could not guess that I would get an ip address from a different location while buying a server in Germany. So service providers may look at it from their side and see it as normal, but this is not the case on the user side. As a user, you expect what is written.

    Most IP databases just try to guess where IP addresses are located. Sometimes those guesses can be inaccurate. They don’t really know where it’s actually located.

    I only know of ipinfo.io
    and this is what it currently shows

    I believe it used to say Nuremberg quite a bit ago, and most of our subnets do say Nuremberg according to IPInfo (example: https://ipinfo.io/45.61.161.1 or https://ipinfo.io/204.10.194.1). If you see the check-host link, IPInfo did indeed report it as Germany earlier this month. We had already reached out for corrections to IPInfo a while ago, and provided them with our geofeed.

    Their evidence is that their ping probe in Czech has the lowest latency, which makes sense because Nuremberg and Czech are not too far from each other. It's likely that they just don't have a monitoring probe in Nuremberg.

    I'll submit a correction to them about this subnet.

  • Petey_LongPetey_Long Member
    edited May 26

    @hyperblast said:

    @Petey_Long said:

    @tentor said:

    @Petey_Long said: you'd have a $699 idler for a month.

    @safakb still would have a beefy server suitable for their task. The only thing they would need to change are IP addresses used.

    I was just continuing with the over-hyperbolic theme of the thread. Something like that should have been discussed pre-sale, it obviously wasn't. Not Advin's fault.

    aha. good to know, so now you definitely always have to ask beforehand. interesting view of things. :)

    If you need something to work 100% and you're spending $699 (and don't have it to lose) - yeah, it's called due diligence and it's not the provider's fault if you're lazy.

    It'd be a completely different matter if Advin had said "Yes, 100% it will be a german geo IP", pre-sale, then the guy bought it and it wasn't.

    Where on his site do you see that all IP's are guaranteed to be geo-ip located to the datacenter it's located in? (spoiler: it doesn't.) You're not paying for an IP, you're paying for a server that has an IP INCLUDED.

    Get a cheap VPS with a German IP and route the traffic to the $699 server until the geo issues can get worked out.

    The whole "problem" could have been avoided if the person didn't jump the gun and buy the server before asking questions. If a provider is quick to answer your questions as a non-client, you should feel good in knowing that if you do run into any issues as a client, someone's going to be there to take care of you.

    Now Advin has to take time out of his day to address all of this and for what? Because someone didn't take the time to ask questions BEFORE the sale.

    So yes, "You definitelySHOULD always have to ask before hand."

  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 26

    @AlbaHost said:

    @Advin said:

    @JohnGrag said:
    I think @Advin, should refund full prices to the client

    and every provider should put ip looking glass and ip location in offers

    @AlbaHost also offers servers on many locations but he clearly state ip is ALbanian one

    Regards

    I believe that the client was provided with a test IP address before order. We did refund close to the full amount, but it was a custom server as mentioned, so some small fees were deducted (which we both agreed on).

    I believe maxmind update their database every Friday if i am not mistaken, just submit the IP/subnet correction and it will be updated. We had recently some of our IPs within the same subnet half geolocated in Albania, and half in Nepal... After submitting IP correction they stated that they will update with the correction on Friday.

    Yep, I pushed them for an update today, but I think it could be slightly delayed due to memorial day. Maybe it'll be updated by Friday, but I think the timeline may be too long.

  • msattmsatt Member

    I am probably talking rubbish, but this is how I would have resolved this (until geoIp resolves).
    Instead of setting up a vpn on 30+ machines.
    Purchase a cheap VPS preferably in same data center (with a german ip). Run a reverse proxy on the VPS to go over a VPN to your dedicated server (also in Germany). Point cloudflare at the VPS and job done.
    Delays should be minimal and you end up with a very flexible system.

  • Petey_LongPetey_Long Member
    edited May 26

    @msatt said:
    I am probably talking rubbish, but this is how I would have resolved this (until geoIp resolves).
    Instead of setting up a vpn on 30+ machines.
    Purchase a cheap VPS preferably in same data center (with a german ip). Run a reverse proxy on the VPS to go over a VPN to your dedicated server (also in Germany). Point cloudflare at the VPS and job done.
    Delays should be minimal and you end up with a very flexible system.

    You're spot on brotato chip. Looks like we posted at about the same time. This would have been the PROPER thing to do, with the added benefit of not having to take up any of the provider's time.

  • rbmaxrbmax Member

    If buyer did not mentioned his specific user case with cloudflare to provider, then this is buyers fault. If buyer mentioned, provider ignored or did not had any idea about it then this is providers fault. ;)

  • zGatozGato Member
    edited May 26

    @Advin said:

    @AlbaHost said:

    @Advin said:

    @JohnGrag said:
    I think @Advin, should refund full prices to the client

    and every provider should put ip looking glass and ip location in offers

    @AlbaHost also offers servers on many locations but he clearly state ip is ALbanian one

    Regards

    I believe that the client was provided with a test IP address before order. We did refund close to the full amount, but it was a custom server as mentioned, so some small fees were deducted (which we both agreed on).

    I believe maxmind update their database every Friday if i am not mistaken, just submit the IP/subnet correction and it will be updated. We had recently some of our IPs within the same subnet half geolocated in Albania, and half in Nepal... After submitting IP correction they stated that they will update with the correction on Friday.

    Yep, I pushed them for an update today, but I think it could be slightly delayed due to memorial day. Maybe it'll be updated by Friday, but I think the timeline may be too long for this particular instance.

    You should contact them and put a geofeed on a random server, their staff is quite rude though.
    I think what could be happening is that some random geofeed has your block there updating to The Netherlands, and as Maxmind priorizes it, it will just get updated every week. The correction form is actually quite useless, and they don't check it, you can send corrections even to North Korea.

    I'm in a constant battle with 46.250.229.17 for example, which ipxo says it's in the UK when it's in Singapore, so every few weeks I have to send a correction again and again. Maxmind is actually dumb, don't know why they're used this much everywhere.

  • conceptconcept Member

    When I buy a server that is located in Germany, I expect it to be geolocated to Germany too. But it isn't a hard requirement. I think OP should've made things more clear that German IP is a hard requirement. Especially when you are paying that much money to make sure you are getting exactly what you are asking.

    Like others have mentioned, Geolocation info can vary. I have a multiple vps from small French provider that run their own servers out of a small datacenter in Lyon, FR and I get IPs that show as geolocated in US and Turkey.

  • rbmaxrbmax Member

    @concept said:
    When I buy a server that is located in Germany, I expect it to be geolocated to Germany too. But it isn't a hard requirement. I think OP should've made things more clear that German IP is a hard requirement. Especially when you are paying that much money to make sure you are getting exactly what you are asking.

    Like others have mentioned, Geolocation info can vary. I have a multiple vps from small French provider that run their own servers out of a small datacenter in Lyon, FR and I get IPs that show as geolocated in US and Turkey.

    The ip address really from Germany according provider, if buyer and cloudflare relies on third parties databases for ip location info, it's their own problem, not providers.

  • AdvinAdvin Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 26

    @zGato said:

    @Advin said:

    @AlbaHost said:

    @Advin said:

    @JohnGrag said:
    I think @Advin, should refund full prices to the client

    and every provider should put ip looking glass and ip location in offers

    @AlbaHost also offers servers on many locations but he clearly state ip is ALbanian one

    Regards

    I believe that the client was provided with a test IP address before order. We did refund close to the full amount, but it was a custom server as mentioned, so some small fees were deducted (which we both agreed on).

    I believe maxmind update their database every Friday if i am not mistaken, just submit the IP/subnet correction and it will be updated. We had recently some of our IPs within the same subnet half geolocated in Albania, and half in Nepal... After submitting IP correction they stated that they will update with the correction on Friday.

    Yep, I pushed them for an update today, but I think it could be slightly delayed due to memorial day. Maybe it'll be updated by Friday, but I think the timeline may be too long for this particular instance.

    You should contact them and put a geofeed on a random server, their staff is quite rude though.
    I think what could be happening is that some random geofeed has your block there updating to The Netherlands, and as Maxmind priorizes it, it will just get updated every week. The correction form is actually quite useless, and they don't check it, you can send corrections even to North Korea.

    I'm in a constant battle with 46.250.229.17 for example, which ipxo says it's in the UK when it's in Singapore, so every few weeks I have to send a correction again and again. Maxmind is actually dumb, don't know why they're used this much everywhere.

    Yeah, I'll check in with Maxmind again and see if there's any conflicting geofeeds. It's an unfortunate problem that generally happens to a lot of hosting providers with new subnets.

    I found this story to be interesting, where a Kansas family sued Maxmind for automatically geolocating subnets to their house as a default location. Horrible for the family, because law enforcement and others would turn up at their door.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/09/maxmind-mapping-lawsuit-kansas-farm-ip-address

    Thanked by 3zGato tentor Patriarch
  • meow1337meow1337 Member

    see in my opinion, advin servers should compensate(which they are doing 500) ,
    advin server didn't lied but they failed to complete their promise of DE ip.
    I understand ip update can take some time but guys its your headache to update ip beforehand giving to customer. he infact doesnt even care if server is based on antartitca, as long as server on all online location shows as germany server and has good connection.
    you do get me right. so possible solution what i can recommend(i know no one asked but let me put my thoughts as well) replace his ip to any other ip blocks which has updated records of germany location or refund him (500 is generous as 100 can be considered as expedited setup fees, hetzner too takes 79$ for setup fees and is non refundable.)

  • meow1337meow1337 Member

    @meow1337 said: 500 is generous

    I would like to edit the point to refund amount : 600 is generous not 500. you heard me right

  • meow1337meow1337 Member

    @tentor said: I have a server with them in Finland, test IP is 2a01:4f9:3b:2a5f:86e2:89a:e1f7:b837. Yet still, there are popular geoip services detecting them as ones from Germany (wrong country!): see https://ipgeolocation.io/ and https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip-web-services-demo - they will show Germany for this IP address, not Finland.

    nah, https://ipinfo.io/2a01:4f9:3b:2a5f:86e2:89a:e1f7:b837 check this out.

  • tentortentor Member, Host Rep

    @meow1337 said:

    @tentor said: I have a server with them in Finland, test IP is 2a01:4f9:3b:2a5f:86e2:89a:e1f7:b837. Yet still, there are popular geoip services detecting them as ones from Germany (wrong country!): see https://ipgeolocation.io/ and https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip-web-services-demo - they will show Germany for this IP address, not Finland.

    nah, https://ipinfo.io/2a01:4f9:3b:2a5f:86e2:89a:e1f7:b837 check this out.

    Read my message attentively please.

    Thanked by 2emgh Peppery9
  • meow1337meow1337 Member

    @tentor said: Read my message attentively please.

    okey i get it that records update takes time but cant be guranteed. but
    why its getting hard for you to understand what customer wants. everything you do online is based on your geolocation right. if customer has asked beforehand germany ip strict than it should be you who needs to ensure that ip geo must be according to customer needs. he definately has some staff and people on the server and if they visit to a website that requires only germany ip or would sense spam score on other country ips( you try to understand its his work related, i had the same issue earlier and had to drop whole server because of this. dont make him do that just replace his 30 ips to your available stock which has good geo pointers records on all popular sites). you are here for a long run, not to argue on small talks, build customer not sales. sales will come through.

  • MumblyMumbly Member
    edited May 26

    @rbmax said: if buyer and cloudflare relies on third parties databases for ip location info, it's their own problem, not providers.

    RIPE database is not 3rd pary database. IP address entry in RIPE database show .nl as well.

    https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query?from=www&searchtext=212.193.3.6

    @emgh said:
    also get a damn vpn what's the issue

    That's a strange and extremely useless suggestion.

    @Erisa said:
    Which can be fixed with a vpn (either commercial vpn or a small vps acting as one) - it's not always necessary to have something physically located in the place you need the geoip from

    This one as well.

    When I rent a VPS in Germany to run a bouncer or a couple of eggdrops, I expect them to be able to connect to stable local German IRCnet servers not to random servers that may or may not accept improperly geolocated IPs.

    Thanked by 2hyperblast lothos
  • tentortentor Member, Host Rep

    @meow1337 said: why its getting hard for you to understand what customer wants

    I understand the concerns highlighted by OP and subsequently others topic members. However my (and my business) position is the same - there is no way to provide such guarantees, therefore I have implemented measures to let the (potential) customers know about this policy.

  • meow1337meow1337 Member

    @tentor said: customers know about this policy.

    Did you specifically mentioned about this policy to customer when he was asking for quotes?

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