MXroute Offers are up

default

I don't get it. Why are MXRoute's Black Friday offers more expensive than standard plans of their resellers? I would expect MXRoute to try and make it cheaper on such special occasions.

Hxxx

@default wrong. Why would you compete with your resellers? ehhh HELLOOO?

default

@Hxxx said:
@default wrong. Why would you compete with your resellers? ehhh HELLOOO?

Good point too. However, Black Friday is just one day in year.

aRNoLD

Should I remove those DNS records except the DKIM key, or let them be in the control panel?

The manual says these are wrong records/shortcomings.

ObViper

I have a similar $10 plan with one of mxroute resellers, keeping it safe incase my current provider sh@t the bed. Wondering if it's worth replacing the reseller plan with this $10 plan thereby removing the reseller risk? Any advise?

jar

@default said:
I don't get it. Why are MXRoute's Black Friday offers more expensive than standard plans of their resellers? I would expect MXRoute to try and make it cheaper on such special occasions.

Love those resellers 💜

ChefJoe

@MrPsycho said:
Kind of want to jump off that old cPanel so at least you won't me making a loss on me. Does your DA have any sort of logs/delivery tracking information like cPanel?

I haven't double-checked in a year, but DA put their cpanel-like delivery tracking feature behind the Pro Pack, which seems to include lots of other features and still be expensive enough it's not very common on LET offerings. It's the one thing that keeps me from going to DA tbh.

jar

@ChefJoe said:

@MrPsycho said:
Kind of want to jump off that old cPanel so at least you won't me making a loss on me. Does your DA have any sort of logs/delivery tracking information like cPanel?

I haven't double-checked in a year, but DA put their cpanel-like delivery tracking feature behind the Pro Pack, which seems to include lots of other features and still be expensive enough it's not very common on LET offerings. It's the one thing that keeps me from going to DA tbh.

We do have that on most servers. Problem is you don't get it with a datacenter license, have to buy the license direct. The server receiving all new accounts today has that but I make no effort to touch it really, because in my opinion less than 1% of users will gain anything from that interface other than confusion.

ChefJoe

@jar said:

@ChefJoe said:

@MrPsycho said:
Kind of want to jump off that old cPanel so at least you won't me making a loss on me. Does your DA have any sort of logs/delivery tracking information like cPanel?

I haven't double-checked in a year, but DA put their cpanel-like delivery tracking feature behind the Pro Pack, which seems to include lots of other features and still be expensive enough it's not very common on LET offerings. It's the one thing that keeps me from going to DA tbh.

We do have that on most servers. Problem is you don't get it with a datacenter license, have to buy the license direct. The server receiving all new accounts today has that but I make no effort to touch it really, because in my opinion less than 1% of users will gain anything from that interface other than confusion.

Oh, nice, so you do have the license with Pro Pack for the new server. Are you saying it's available to you as the admin but haven't piped that section of Track and Trace tools out to end user GUI? I'm in the 1% that wants to have a modest idea of what gets filtered as spam/via rbl, even if I don't need the ability to recover them. The SMTP log we get in datacenter-licensed DA is a bit deficient compared to cPanel's Track Delivery.

jar

@ChefJoe said:

@jar said:

@ChefJoe said:

@MrPsycho said:
Kind of want to jump off that old cPanel so at least you won't me making a loss on me. Does your DA have any sort of logs/delivery tracking information like cPanel?

I haven't double-checked in a year, but DA put their cpanel-like delivery tracking feature behind the Pro Pack, which seems to include lots of other features and still be expensive enough it's not very common on LET offerings. It's the one thing that keeps me from going to DA tbh.

We do have that on most servers. Problem is you don't get it with a datacenter license, have to buy the license direct. The server receiving all new accounts today has that but I make no effort to touch it really, because in my opinion less than 1% of users will gain anything from that interface other than confusion.

Oh, nice, so you do have the license with Pro Pack for the new server. Are you saying it's available to you as the admin but haven't piped that section of Track and Trace tools out to end user GUI? I'm in the 1% that wants to have a modest idea of what gets filtered as spam/via rbl, even if I don't need the ability to recover them. The SMTP log we get in datacenter-licensed DA is a bit deficient compared to cPanel's Track Delivery.

It "should" be visible on the new server. If it isn't I'll probably make a point to add it. It should be in my menu template and just missing on the couple servers that lack the license.

webcraft

@jar said:
It "should" be visible on the new server. If it isn't I'll probably make a point to add it. It should be in my menu template and just missing on the couple servers that lack the license.

Maybe he isn't on that server? Is this the server named like an energy drink?

matheny

I can see the email tracking feature on my server, but it's nearly useless gmail scan all links in the email body right after receving it

jar

@webcraft said:

@jar said:
It "should" be visible on the new server. If it isn't I'll probably make a point to add it. It should be in my menu template and just missing on the couple servers that lack the license.

Maybe he isn't on that server? Is this the server named like an energy drink?

Yeah everyone should be on redbull right now for new accounts.

ChefJoe

@webcraft said:
Maybe he isn't on that server? Is this the server named like an energy drink?

I'm not a MXRoute customer yet. A year ago I was signing up for 1 month accounts to try out various hosts and learn how they filter my personal mail. Didn't want to mess with asking for refunds or lock into a year just to kick the tires. $10 isn't too bad a risk though.

TODO

Are these offer until the 30th of Nov ?

ralf

Random question for @jar - I finally got round to testing the account details I got yesterday and sent myself a test mail to gmail using the mxlogin webmail thing... I was very surprised when I got a read notification and discovered that it'd actually included a hidden image for tracking. Actually, that surprised me because I thought gmail was smart enough to strip these things out.

But anyway, the question was: do you find that this is generally tolerated by the other big mail providers? I naively assumed that generally hidden images were always assumed to be a sign of spam and that it was something we really shouldn't be doing. Obviously, I appreciate that it's good for analytics, but just assumed generally it was frowned on nowadays.

I'm actually mostly interested in whether this is considered OK, because in general I'd like to know if a message was seen, but don't want to increase my "spamminess". FWIW my SpamAssassin marked it as not spam, but did mark it as HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_08,T_REMOTE_IMAGE,WEIRD_PORT.

Oh, and the other thing is I tried to create a LetsEncrypt certificate and their API is rate-limited, so I guess everyone who signed up for MXroute is hammering it, but it might be worth spreading the load across multiple servers. I decided to try ZeroSSL as I'm just playing around on a domain that I'm not using for anything yet, but it might be worth making people aware that you can only generate 3 free certs with ZeroSSL before you have to pay for it.

jar

@ralf said: But anyway, the question was: do you find that this is generally tolerated by the other big mail providers? I naively assumed that generally hidden images were always assumed to be a sign of spam and that it was something we really shouldn't be doing. Obviously, I appreciate that it's good for analytics, but just assumed generally it was frowned on nowadays.

I haven't noticed any exceptional correlation between that tracking pixel and spam filtering, but it's always possible. It's just a Crossbox feature you can turn off, I think it's on this page: https://mail.mxlogin.com/#!/user/settings/mail-settings

@ralf said: Oh, and the other thing is I tried to create a LetsEncrypt certificate and their API is rate-limited, so I guess everyone who signed up for MXroute is hammering it, but it might be worth spreading the load across multiple servers

I haven't noticed that unless it's your domain specifically that is rate limited by LE, which does happen.

ralf

@jar said:

@ralf said: But anyway, the question was: do you find that this is generally tolerated by the other big mail providers? I naively assumed that generally hidden images were always assumed to be a sign of spam and that it was something we really shouldn't be doing. Obviously, I appreciate that it's good for analytics, but just assumed generally it was frowned on nowadays.

I haven't noticed any exceptional correlation between that tracking pixel and spam filtering, but it's always possible. It's just a Crossbox feature you can turn off, I think it's on this page: https://mail.mxlogin.com/#!/user/settings/mail-settings

Cool, I'll probably leave it alone for now, as I'm just playing around anyway.

The crossbox android app does seem pretty nice!

@ralf said: Oh, and the other thing is I tried to create a LetsEncrypt certificate and their API is rate-limited, so I guess everyone who signed up for MXroute is hammering it, but it might be worth spreading the load across multiple servers

I haven't noticed that unless it's your domain specifically that is rate limited by LE, which does happen.

Shouldn't be my domain as it's literally been unused for anything, although it does have a holding page and I re-run certbot once a day, but that's usually pretty good at not requesting certs unless it's close to expiry.

The error was:

2022/11/24 19:45:07 Could not obtain certificates:
    acme: error: 429 :: POST :: https://acme-v02.api.letsencrypt.org/acme/new-order :: urn:ietf:params:acme:error:rateLimited :: Error creating new order :: too many new orders recently: see https://letsencrypt.org/docs/rate-limits/
Certificate generation failed.

From that URL, it seems like it is the certbot account on your end:

You can create a maximum of 300 New Orders per account per 3 hours. A new order is created each time you request a certificate from the Boulder CA, meaning that one new order is produced in each certificate request. Exceeding the New Orders limit is reported with the error message too many new orders recently.

matheny

@ralf can I ask why you need to generate SSL cert on mxroute? is it for the webmail site?

ralf

@matheny said:
@ralf can I ask why you need to generate SSL cert on mxroute? is it for the webmail site?

I was following this guide, although I stopped just before the gmail part: https://community.mxroute.com/t/beginners-guide-to-setting-up-mxroute-with-gmail/629

From when I set up my own mail server, IIRC it's required do be about to do TLS, which is needed for authenticated SMTP. I'm not sure if mxlogin actually requires you do this. You definitely do need it if you're going to be using gmail though, as that's why I went down that rabbit hole myself.

matheny

@ralf said: From when I set up my own mail server, IIRC it's required do be about to do TLS, which is needed for authenticated SMTP.

Ah I see. I don't think it's nessessary if you use mxroute's hostname for the POP/IMAP server. But if you want to use your own domain, eg, mail.yourdomain.com, then the cert is required.

kyaky

Have been waiting for a reseller plan for 3 years . Will see if it’s happening this year

ralf

@ralf said: it's required do be about to do TLS

Man, I need some sleep! No idea how that gibberish come from my keyboard!

ChefJoe

@jar said:

@ChefJoe said:

@jar said:

@ChefJoe said:

@MrPsycho said:
Kind of want to jump off that old cPanel so at least you won't me making a loss on me. Does your DA have any sort of logs/delivery tracking information like cPanel?

I haven't double-checked in a year, but DA put their cpanel-like delivery tracking feature behind the Pro Pack, which seems to include lots of other features and still be expensive enough it's not very common on LET offerings. It's the one thing that keeps me from going to DA tbh.

We do have that on most servers. Problem is you don't get it with a datacenter license, have to buy the license direct. The server receiving all new accounts today has that but I make no effort to touch it really, because in my opinion less than 1% of users will gain anything from that interface other than confusion.

Oh, nice, so you do have the license with Pro Pack for the new server. Are you saying it's available to you as the admin but haven't piped that section of Track and Trace tools out to end user GUI? I'm in the 1% that wants to have a modest idea of what gets filtered as spam/via rbl, even if I don't need the ability to recover them. The SMTP log we get in datacenter-licensed DA is a bit deficient compared to cPanel's Track Delivery.

It "should" be visible on the new server. If it isn't I'll probably make a point to add it. It should be in my menu template and just missing on the couple servers that lack the license.

Nice, DA Track and Trace is a feature on the new MXRoute account.

ralf

@ChefJoe said:
Nice, DA Track and Trace is a feature on the new MXRoute account.

I've just taken a look at the 3 messages I sent, and to me it looks like the confirmation is just that it was sent to the first of mxroute's outboard SMTP servers, not the final destination. e.g. this one:

id: 1oyIph-003Ptr-1k
datetime:   Thu Nov 24 2022 20:28:29 GMT+0000 (Greenwich Mean Time)
state:  delivered
smtp_confirmation:  250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as DDC8F9D2F2
host:   filtergroup.mxroute.com [136.175.111.2]

But if I look at the mail logs on the machine that received it, I see:

2022-11-24 20:28:37 1oyIpo-006ZWk-Dk <= [email protected] H=mail-108-mta245.mxroute.com [136.175.108.245] P=esmtps X=TLS1.2:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_128_GCM:128 CV=no S=3004 DKIM=xxx.com [email protected]
2022-11-24 20:28:38 1oyIpp-006ZYL-Hm <= [email protected] U=Debian-exim P=spam-scanned S=3539 [email protected]

If you look at the headers in the message, you can see that all the information matches up with mxroute's next 2 outgoing mail servers, first mail-111-mta2 then mail-108-mta245:

Received: from mail-108-mta245.mxroute.com ([136.175.108.245])
        by mail.xxx.com with esmtps  (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
        (Exim 4.94.2)
        (envelope-from <[email protected]>)
        id 1oyIpo-006ZWk-Dk
        for [email protected]; Thu, 24 Nov 2022 20:28:37 +0000
Received: from mail-111-mta2.mxroute.com ([136.175.111.2] filter006.mxroute.com)
 (Authenticated sender: mN4xxxxxsgR)
 by mail-108-mta245.mxroute.com (ZoneMTA) with ESMTPSA id 184ab53dd4a0006e99.001
 for <[email protected]>
 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256);
 Thu, 24 Nov 2022 20:28:30 +0000

ChefJoe

@ralf said:
I've just taken a look at the 3 messages I sent, and to me it looks like the confirmation is just that it was sent to the first of mxroute's outboard SMTP servers, not the final destination. e.g. this one:

Oh, interesting. I haven't activated anything yet, but my main purpose is really to have some basic idea of what filtering is happening to my spam. If the admin decides that inbound ad emails from my grocery store are spam and should be routed to null, I just want some indication that's happening so I can decide if I need to move my service or plea for some filter changes. I don't want to be asking the admins about "why didn't I see email from X" without having some sort of proof it existed.

JabJab

Does this new tracking also shows SMTP IN e-mails? Especially with catch-all enabled and I can see why something was denied / even reached mxroute mailboxes? This is probably like 0.01% users wanted feature.

kidrock

@jar Will there be any 2GB plan offer on BF tomorrow?

Skyrider

Still got the 100GB Black Friday plan back from 2018 for $15 a year. Keeping that one .

kidrock

@jar said:

@default said:
I don't get it. Why are MXRoute's Black Friday offers more expensive than standard plans of their resellers? I would expect MXRoute to try and make it cheaper on such special occasions.

Love those resellers 💜

What's the difference between buying directly from mxroute vs buying from reseller like webhorizon, apart from the price/storage?